Do you think PokerStars will ban the use of HUDs too?

italorohdrigues

italorohdrigues

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pokerstars recently changed the max numbers of tables you can simultaneously play on cash games (from 24 to 4 only), and the reason for that was to keep the game's ecosystem sustainable for all players, so players that play just for fun, can still find it enjoyable

party poker for the very same reasons banned the use of HUDs, do you think PS will do that to? How do you feel about not allowing players to use HUD?






 
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domfudao

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I dont use hud.

I am against the use of hud

I think it should really be blocked
 
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Vander44

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Ultimately as HUDs can give a person an advantage I think there is a chance they all will ban HUD.

As an alternative why doesn’t one/all of these poker sites just provide this type of information to all eliminating the need for them. This would level the playing field and give advantage to those that can best interpret the data.
 
pentazepam

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If they do I consider playing cash games there again.

Have never used a HUD myself.

Even if it's possible to cheat (e.g. two computers) I want it to be so much human against human that is possible even online.
 
gabryyyel31

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There are pros and cons. I'm sure that professional players would not be happy with such a decision but for new players and for the ecosystem I think it would be an inspired solution. Eliminating the HUD would provide an additional chance for recreational players and could bring a fresh air to the poker pools where regs take a big advantage by using helpful tools to increase their winnings. :hmmmm2:
 
tagece

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If all the other rooms ban the huds, there is no way Pokerstars don't do it.
Where is the money in online poker? In the number of hands and tournaments played. So it's a lot more profitable have a massive number of recreative players, even they play micro stakes, then some professionals playing all day with softwares.
If Pokerstars gets a sharks paradise image, the new players will choose another room.
 
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matiusaa

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If the ban of the HUD makes them earn more money, then they'll certainly will
 
Nikolay Nakhaev

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soon they can ban the game altogether until you show your passport to the camera and put your hand on the screen[emoji3][emoji3][emoji3][emoji32][emoji32][emoji32]
In general, without a HUD, the game will be more equal
 
veritasi

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I don't think so, PS is much more bigger than party and if they'll ban hud many players will not like it (i don't like hud because i haven't it, but in future i wanna buy it, very useful thing)
 
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fundiver199

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My take on this issue is, that poker sites, professional, and semiprofessional players have a common interest in securing, that recreational players come into the game and then continue playing, because this is the only way, anyone can make a profit.

I also think, its pretty clear, that online poker has been in a slow decline for 10 years, and especially the traditional cash game tables are in danger of dyeing a slow shark filled death. The consensus seem to be, that if new players lose their money to fast, they are unlikely to continue playing, so the question should be, how can poker sites make new players lose their money more slowly?

One possible answer is to try and change the "shark to fish" ratio, so that each table on average is containing more fish and less sharks. This is basically, what PokerStars is trying to do with the table cap. People playing more than 4 tables are generally winners, so when they are forced to play less, there will be less sharks at the table. Maybe some will also react by moving up, which will further soften the games.

The other option is to try and take edges away from the sharks. This is, what partypoker has done not only by banning HUDs but also by killing the traditional poker lobby, so players can no longer chose, which table to enter, or which seat. This makes "bum hunting" much more difficult and force sharks to spend more time playing against each other.

I think, its fairly subjective, which solution is best. Personal preferences surely play a role here. I like to play with a HUD, and I rarely play much more than 4 tables, so for me the solution, PokerStars has chosen, is nearly ideal and might actually see me return to the site as my main place to play cash games.

I dont think, PartyPokers solution is wrong though. The only part, I am highly critical about, is getting rid of hand histories. I feel, this put the integrety of online poker in jeopardy, and it also take away the option of players to work on their game away from the tables. Sure this might also "level the playing field", but I think, this is taking it to far. After all poker is an information game, so taking nearly all information out of the game is sort of making it dumber.

The main proponent of the changes on PartyPoker has been Rob Yong, who is a casino owner and also high stakes live poker player. Doug Polk has recently analysed a number of hands, Rob Yong played on TV, on his YouTube channel. And Rob Yong is entering pots with hands like 73s and generally playing in a way, that online would earn him a "fish" mark from every single regular very quickly.

And I cant help thinking, that this also say a lot about the changes on PartyPoker. Maybe Rob Yong feel, that poker should be all about gambling and having fun, and that it is wrong to even try to develop a long term winning strategy. From the perspective of a casino owner that sort of make sense, because if nobody is winning long term, then all the money end up as rake.

But as poker players we need to ask ourselfes, if this is also our ideal for the game? For me personally I am not going to play poker, if its not allowed to be a long term winning player, or if games are made essentially unbeatable. And therefore I am not really on board with the way, Rob Yong think about this.

As for what further steps poker sites might take, including PokerStars, I think, they are going to take some time to evaluate the effect of the table cap, because they look to implement further big changes. For now however the result does seem to be, that traffic at PokerStars is slightly down, but the cash games have become noteciably softer and looser, as was the intention.
 
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BobbyMorton

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They will look at it see how it is going elsewhere and then make their decision.:):):)
 
italorohdrigues

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One possible answer is to try and change the "shark to fish" ratio, so that each table on average is containing more fish and less sharks. This is basically, what PokerStars is trying to do with the table cap. People playing more than 4 tables are generally winners, so when they are forced to play less, there will be less sharks at the table. Maybe some will also react by moving up, which will further soften the games.

That's a very reasonable explanation for that, I'm starting to agree with the table cap now, thanks for the reply!
 
ASMautoneJr

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It had to be banned using hud !!!!! in all rooms ... !!! It is very ugly !!!

:wavey:
 
pentazepam

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For me personally I am not going to play poker, if its not allowed to be a long term winning player, or if games are made essentially unbeatable. And therefore I am not really on board with the way, Rob Yong think about this. .

You see: it is working even on you. THEY DO NOT WANT WINNING PLAYERS.

But I have to ask: can't you win only playing four tables 25NL without a HUD? Not as much maybe, but I hope you still can win pretty easily.

Otherwise poker is already on life support. Not only for you.
 
naitutreaba

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They will probably keep it,in my opinion ,as most players are using a hud atm.
 
John A

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The main issue is that the games are getting more difficult. In the last few years, poker has actually been back on an incline world wide though. It's not an issue of getting and finding players that has poker sites scrambling to try and figure out the best scenario for players and their bottom line.

HUDs don't have one single thing at all to do with the poker ecosystem. HUDs are data, that's it. Banning poker HUDs is equivalent to saying we should ban data in all sports. No more stats in baseball! I mean, why should we allow people to collect all of this data, and shift their players, and pitch to the locations where the hitters have the least success?

It's just really bad reasoning. I sell a HUD, so I take offense at all of the very poorly thought out reasons to ban HUDs on sites. I loved HUDs well before I ever sold them because they are amazing tools to learn and get better at a game I assume we all love if we're playing it. The main thing is if enough sites ban HUDs, they are just going to go into black markets and be much less accessible and much more expensive, and provide even bigger edges that current sellers don't provide (because it would be unfair to do so).

There's at least 10+ things I could rattle off that would make the games better, that isn't a poorly thought out opinion based decision.... because... we do have some data on why the games are tougher, and why there's more sharks at any given table.

I just hope we don't try and turn online poker into live poker. That's my main hope, because I love online poker, and it's never going to be live poker no matter what you try and do.

My 2 cents.
 
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fundiver199

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The main issue is that the games are getting more difficult. In the last few years, poker has actually been back on an incline world wide though. It's not an issue of getting and finding players that has poker sites scrambling to try and figure out the best scenario for players and their bottom line.

Poker has a whole might have been on an incline world wide in the last few years, but it is not showing up the numbers for the main western facing sites like Stars, 888 or Party. These numbers are still slowly declining, as they have been for a decade. You see it financial reports and on tracking sites like PokerScout.
 
Pokerguy6666

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I hope they ban them.
 
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pjokay

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It's kind of a double edged sword removing huds, it also removes the amount of information you can play with and the level of analysis you want to give the game but they come most in to use for people playing lots of tables at once. Removing huds may mean people play less tables so the sites have less player volume and less bonuses and guarantee's. I cannot see Pokerstars doing this.

The way Party has gone about this was by removing hand histories rather than just banning them which makes them more susceptible to fraud and collusion.
 
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Yong didn't just ban Huds he banned tracking software like PT4 and all the others. That program has helped my game a lot but I think Yong doesn't want players to improve just to shoot money back and forth across the table. Then he can promote "look no big winners, this is fair for everyone". Meanwhile rake goes through the roof and nobody wins except PartyP.
 
Tmoney999

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Ban HUDs, it is only fair that your do the research on a certain player and have notes taking down about how you feel they play, not having a machine or software program doing this is only fair. I like what HUDs do but it is not fair to play against a person using a HUD, they should have notes of there own on you, not let a machine tell you the exact statistics. Since when has there been a HUD for live poker, it is just your own mind doing the work for you and that is how it should be online as well in my opinion.
 
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fundiver199

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Since when has there been a HUD for live poker, it is just your own mind doing the work for you and that is how it should be online as well in my opinion.

I dont think, its a particularly good argument, that something does not exist in live poker. Then online poker sites should also not have a number of the screen displaying the size of the pot, and numbers displaying each players stack size. Instead there should be a picture of chips of different colours, than players then manually had to calculate the value off, because this is, how it is live.

There should also be no note taking function or tags to put on other players. And there should be no information on the table about average stack size or your position in a tournament, or how far away from the money, you are.

The more legitimate argument against HUDs is, that players actively need to do something to get the same information at the tables, as other players are getting. So there is certainly an argument to be made for poker sites providing even more information during their own software, but not allowing the use of third party software.



 
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How would they check this? You could still have an analog HUD - pen and paper. Or an offline version like an excel file.
 
antonis32123

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Pokerstars , the same as other great rooms besides PartyPoker , will never ban HUDs , this is 100% real fact , the greatest majority of regs if not all use them , going against their interests is not sth Stars or the poker rooms would want or desire imo . HUDs help regs earn more money , if they ban HUDs , they will lose regs and their money/deposits , that would be crazy .
imo
 
RasterGFX

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PokerStars recently changed the max numbers of tables you can simultaneously play on cash games (from 24 to 4 only), and the reason for that was to keep the game's ecosystem sustainable for all players, so players that play just for fun, can still find it enjoyable

Party Poker for the very same reasons banned the use of HUDs, do you think PS will do that to? How do you feel about not allowing players to use HUD?
If they do then New Players won't Learn. (I guess maybe in real USD they would because then it would sorta be legit but.... I highly doubt they will.

Yong didn't just ban Huds he banned tracking software like PT4 and all the others. That program has helped my game a lot but I think Yong doesn't want players to improve just to shoot money back and forth across the table. Then he can promote "look no big winners, this is fair for everyone". Meanwhile rake goes through the roof and nobody wins except PartyP.

Guess you get Gambling Now.
 
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