Cheaters in my friend's home game?

T

Toad

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Had a weird thing happen the other day in a home game I play in sometimes.

First, a little background...

The first time I played in this particular game we set it up as a MTT $20 buy in with about 25 people that showed up to play. The very first hand I am dealt AJo in the BB. Everyone folds around to the button who calls...SB folds...I check.

Flop is J-8-5 rainbow. I throw out a pot sized bet and the dealer immediately pushes all in. I know this guy to be a bit over-aggressive at times so after a little thinking I decide to call. He flips over J5 for 2 pair. I chalk it up to bad play on my part and consider it a lesson learned...time to rebuy.


2 months later (last weekend)...same game. I bring my friend. We both end up seated at the same table as the guy who beat me last time...who agian happens to be dealing the first hand. The cards are dealt, I fold my junk hand, but my friend calls from EP.

The flop comes J-8-5 rainbow (where have I seen this before?). My friend throws out a pot sized bet (I know his playing style so I put him on AJ or KJ). The dealer immediately comes over the top all in.

I want to scream - FOLD!!! HE HAS 2 PAIR!!! - but I see my friend thinking it over. I know that look, it's only a matter of time before he calls. It's like watching a horror movie knowing the villian is about to strike while the innocent victim walks unknowingly into the woodshed.

My friend calls and flips over his AJ...and of course the dealer flips over his J5. Turn, River, and my buddy is out.


Weird coincidence? The villian is actually a very nice guy...and a decent card player. Just seems odd to have that exact scenario happen twice in the very few times I've played with him.
 
TheseNutsWin

TheseNutsWin

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Well.. do you remember who shuffled the cards? Was it him , did you guys watch him do it? if so then its unlikely he is cheating best way is to cut the deck by another player just before somebody deals them ou and you avoid those issues...
 
T

Toad

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He was the shuffler in both instances...we usually have another player cut the deck, but I wasn't watching so not sure. Even if the deck was cut from what I've read it would be pretty easy for someone who knows what they are doing to put the cards back in the original precut position.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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Make sure someone cuts before the hand he deals. Obviously I have no idea if he cheated or not, as I don't know anything about him or your game. But if players are dealing there should be a cut before every hand. If that's too much of a hassle the host should pay a dealer.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Does the game use a cutting card?

If you play in a casino, you'll notice they always cut the deck onto a blank plastic card, which stays on the bottom of the deck for the whole hand.

In addition to stopping people being able to see the bottom card in the deck, it prevents people dealing from the bottom of the deck.

If the game uses a cutting card, then you can at least rule out dealing from the bottom of the deck as a cheating option.

It could just be a weird coincidence, of course. But some degree of cynicism is probably healthy.
 
T

Toad

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Great idea Oz...I'm going to pick one up before I head over there this weekend.

I think I'll just watch that guy very closely from now on... I usually cash in that game so if he/they are cheating they arent very good at it. :)

Thanks,

Toad
 
KingCurtis

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exactly have someone cut (usually the back man which is right of the dealer), and also next time watch him while hes shuffling or way before the game starts...
 
hojediade

hojediade

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Anyway, cheater or not, this guy must be a Jackson 5 fan, tho.
Be wise while playing homegames is one thing i will remember as you can't know everybody around the tables as well as you would wish. Hope that you're gonna catch him if he is a cheater.
Good luck tho.
 
odinscott

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^^^ LOL @ that

But to the OP, first if someone watched him as he dealt and then if someone cut, it would be very very hard to stack the deck in the exact same way with the exact same cards... You can surely do underhanded things like deal off the bottom, stack aces towards the top, things like that. But for him to stack with J5, twice in the exact same way with the exact same cards would have to make him some kind of magician.
 
SavagePenguin

SavagePenguin

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If he did cheat, he did it in a very stupid way.

I say it's just a coincidence. It's too hard to manipulate the cards specifically (getting yourself Aces is one thing, but arranging two pair being dealt out against tptk is crazy). And even if you could, you can't expect someone to call an all-in early in a tournament with just tptk.
 
DeadoneD1

DeadoneD1

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I say shoot him, just as a message to the others..in the leg sounds fair for a $20 tourny.

Then see if it happens again, if not you know he was cheating!
 
icemonkey9

icemonkey9

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There is now way that's coincidence again. He use the same cards to confirm that he cheat-dealt correctly. There's no way he should have cut his own deck. What a douchebag.
 
KenFischer

KenFischer

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There is now way that's coincidence again. He use the same cards to confirm that he cheat-dealt correctly. There's no way he should have cut his own deck. What a douchebag.

Hmm... I really don't think we have enough evidence to convict :)

If a player has what they consider a "lucky hand" then you could easily see them playing those same cards more than once in a session. Here you are talking about 2 different times several months apart.

Sure he might be cheating, but it's far more likely that he just has some superstition that made him want to play that particular lousy hand. It's also quite possible that he plays trash trying to trap people who will play for stacks with TPTK :)
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Sounds to me like both you and your friend need to learn not to limp/check in the BB with AJ.
 
ratmantoo

ratmantoo

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Checking with AJ in the BB with only dealer calling is a big NO NO!!!! Raise at least (3 to 5 times BB) as we do not know how the "dealer" plays. Calling the all in is also not a good call. There are a lot of hands beating us - AA to JJ and J8,J5,88,55 and 85 and to risk our tourney lives here is not worth it IMHO.(thats not even factoring in suits :0)

I admit its really wierd that the same two hands came out with the same out come but thats not proof....just highly unlikely. It has happened to me also in a home tourney where I was dealt the same hand (Jh3h) in the big blind 3 times in one night and won every one with a flush. This was remarked on and all I can say is thank goodness I wasnt the dealer / cutter in them as it could have got nasty.

AJ is not a trapping hand, and certainly not the nuts. PLay with care
 
Yumboltking

Yumboltking

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I say shoot him, just as a message to the others..in the leg sounds fair for a $20 tourny.

Then see if it happens again, if not you know he was cheating!

$20 game cheat is only a foot shot, deadone.
 
mbelsky

mbelsky

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i have definately seen confirmed cheating at home games. I caught a "friend" (not anymore) of mine switching to a setup deck after he would shuffle. he had a little shelf under the table. I must say he was pretty slick about it, but after similar events such as you reported, I watched really close and busted him. That game is totally dead now thanks to me (And I am proud).

Another form of cheating at home games was I was at a game with a lot of Russians (nothing against Russians-it was just the case) who were constantly talking to each other in Russian. They would team up against a player and try to crack your good hands with multiple mediocre hands. After a few times, I just stopped going there, as it was clear they were cheating (and I'm pretty sure they would split up the profits afterward.
 
M

massimo

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How did they choose who wins the button for the start of the tourney? There should be a draw of high cards or something, if not you could be onto something. I would play the tourney again and watch his table deal the first hand, even if your not playing at that table (leave your table and get a good look if you have to). If it happens again, you know it's bs.
 
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