Bot players

skaniol

skaniol

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If you are concerned about bots, stay away from:
  • poker rooms without strict anti-bot policies
  • heads-up games (spin & go included)—less players makes it easier for the bot
  • limit games—the complexity of the game is reduced significantly by the predictable bet size
  • games with door cards (Stud)—bots are better than humans at remembering door cards, and at calculating outs/blockers from them
  • cash games—the bots don't have to adapt that much, compared to a tournament, and it's easier for a team of bots to end up at the same table

Even if the bots aren't as smart as humans yet 1v1, the big concern about bot collusion remains. Imagine playing Omaha vs a bunch of bots, who share their hole cards (that's a lot of cards). They may not know the final board and your cards with a certainty, but they will be a lot better at approximating them than you.
 
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Jauwai

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I lived it like hell, especially since the last update from pokerstars. For instance, just now happened to me, i have QQs with 1 card off for a flush. The other dude follows me all in like super instantly..... then i loose my hand on the last card flipped regardless of having 34%, 85%, and even 98% and 99% chances for having the win.

This starts to drag a long while, when i first started a month ago, most people wouldn't follow these kinds of bids, especially not after the flop, now and more and more, i see people doing random all ins with random cards and winning them.

I really start to feel like a rip off....
 
Cajin007

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I get the feeling with the US wire act hanging like a guillotine on the online poker sites heads, They( sites ) are gearing up to loose players en mass due to uncertainty.
Maybe they are employing tactical measures to ensure quarterly shareholder profits, knowing players may be unwillingly yanked out the door in the next few months.
Of course, not all are system bots, some are probably smash and grab one time don't care private bots looking to make bank before they are shut out.
But all this is just my opinion, so take it for what it is. I say BRING IT ON!
 
VIP_TARIFF

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Do any of you get the feeling that most pokersites have bots sat at the tables, not saying they all do but I'm pritty sure most have them. For reason been to take all ur money 💷 as I have had great cards n raised only for someone to call me n hit full house from nothing n im getting pritty peed off as its happening to often now. :confused::mad::confused::eek:
They have always been and will be. It is online and it is not impossible to check.
 
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sergo1203

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I suspect that they are everywhere. But to say 100% I can not.
 
ChrisCreys

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So difficult to say, if anyone would have any proof, it would be the end of online poker forever!!! I really hope that's not true.
 
sedlacekj

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Bots!? Good, Bad, or Ugly?

I am not sure bots exist in online Poker, even though it is possible I suppose. Poker as a game has too many unpredictable elements for a computer program to effectively play and win. A human player has a serious advantage over the supposed Bot. A bot could be programmed to tight and aggressive I suppose, with defined ranges and all that. However good this programming is, it is predictable, and therefore beatable. I hope I run into bots if they exist, because they will be fun to beat.
 
Sil3ntness

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There are definitely bots out there. I know on some sites there are more bots in the 25 NL to 100 NL range. It's hard to get rid of them, because they usually come back with a different name and account.
 
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NickNation

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Do any of you get the feeling that most pokersites have bots sat at the tables, not saying they all do but I'm pritty sure most have them. For reason been to take all ur money 💷 as I have had great cards n raised only for someone to call me n hit full house from nothing n im getting pritty peed off as its happening to often now. :confused::mad::confused::eek:


of course there are bots, and botting rings.. and multi/superaccount users.

and think about it from a business perspective... why would they want to lose out on the rake? more rake is better! lol

but seriously, ingram followed up with ACR bot accusations pretty well... a million hands and a poker pro bitching about it on the internet is what it takes to get rid of a bot these days.

and guess what.. it was back up the next day, so...
 
skaniol

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I am not sure bots exist in online Poker, even though it is possible I suppose. Poker as a game has too many unpredictable elements for a computer program to effectively play and win. A human player has a serious advantage over the supposed Bot. A bot could be programmed to tight and aggressive I suppose, with defined ranges and all that. However good this programming is, it is predictable, and therefore beatable. I hope I run into bots if they exist, because they will be fun to beat.
Yes, if you find a simple bot, it won't be that hard to beat. Check this nice article, for example.

Do you really believe that all bots are that simple, though? It's not that hard to implement a mixed strategy, where the bot's algorithms will be randomized. Moreover, what stops it from adapting to the strategies of its opponents? Like the Libratus bot does. Don't underestimate a bot, just because it's not as smart as a human!
 
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TRocker69

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WPN sites are the worst

Do any of you get the feeling that most pokersites have bots sat at the tables, not saying they all do but I'm pritty sure most have them. For reason been to take all ur money �� as I have had great cards n raised only for someone to call me n hit full house from nothing n im getting pritty peed off as its happening to often now. :confused::mad::confused::eek:

In my experience WPN sites are the worst with bots ACR,Black Chip,True Poker. I've been playing at these sites for about 6 years and over the past year after all the DDOS attacks,they have got very bad.... There's a lot of shady players on those sites that only play the cards that hit. I mean who sits there folding 10 hands in a row to play a 7 3 and hit 7's and 3's,then folds another 10 hands in a row to play a 10 4 and hits 10's and 4's and on and on. There's a lot of this that goes on pretty much every table on WPN like a broken record so beware of these WPN sites, although people do keep going back with the brainwashing with constant freerolls. Bet Online is ok,888 is pretty good also,not as much bot action and weirdness.:icon_prof:heeeellll
 
IanB603

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In my experience WPN sites are the worst with bots ACR,Black Chip,True Poker. I've been playing at these sites for about 6 years and over the past year after all the DDOS attacks,they have got very bad.... There's a lot of shady players on those sites that only play the cards that hit. I mean who sits there folding 10 hands in a row to play a 7 3 and hit 7's and 3's,then folds another 10 hands in a row to play a 10 4 and hits 10's and 4's and on and on. There's a lot of this that goes on pretty much every table on WPN like a broken record so beware of these WPN sites, although people do keep going back with the brainwashing with constant freerolls. Bet Online is ok,888 is pretty good also,not as much bot action and weirdness.:icon_prof:heeeellll



I play on ACR and you see this VERY often. I’ve been on the site since the end of 2017 and I can not count how many times I’ve gone through this.

For example, last night I had AK suited spades. I 3bet, guy calls. Flop comes A 9 3 ( the 9 and 3 were spades). I raise about half pot. They called. The turn comes, 7 spades. I got the nuts now. I check. Guy shoves, I snap call with my Ace high flush. We show our cards, the guy has 9 3 off suit. Sure as shit what comes on the river?? Another 9. Completely stacks me and I’m out of the tourney...
 
8bod8

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I play on ACR and you see this VERY often. I’ve been on the site since the end of 2017 and I can not count how many times I’ve gone through this.

For example, last night I had AK suited spades. I 3bet, guy calls. Flop comes A 9 3 ( the 9 and 3 were spades). I raise about half pot. They called. The turn comes, 7 spades. I got the nuts now. I check. Guy shoves, I snap call with my Ace high flush. We show our cards, the guy has 9 3 off suit. Sure as shit what comes on the river?? Another 9. Completely stacks me and I’m out of the tourney...
Small correction: you did NOT have 'the nuts'. At best you could have called it 'nut flush' as you have a flush with A as highest card; nuts limited to flush....but another card to come, with a risk of 1) full house and 2) straight flush.
 
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brandonkremb

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Bots?

My argument against bots is simple. Why would online poker sites use bots and jeopardize their reputation? Also, this would act as a detractor for good and bad players alike. The thought of there being bots on sites like America's Cardroom is flawed for two reasons. The first being sometimes extreme variance due to a Random Number Generator's outputted results. For example, if you gave a person the digits 1-10 and told them to put them in a random sequence, you would probably do something like this (1,3,9,4,7,2,5,8,6,10) but when a Random Number Generator does this it truly looks more something like this (8,8,8,1,3,2,2,9,10,6,3,4,4,4,4,2,2,1,7,8,8,4,6,5,6,6,6,5, ect...) which can affect your results drastically.
The second point is that we tend to look at things in a bad way due to negative reinforcement. This is where you remember all of your suck out and bad beats but are unable to recall all the times you gave someone else a bad beat or sucked out on them. The possibility of bots is almost slim to none because the good players who use their site would figure this out and stop playing there.
A very good example of this is what happened to UltimateBet Poker Room and Absolute Poker back in 2011 when employees of the site were using "God Accounts" to see other players' hole cards. It is through this event where the thought of bots originated and through basic psychology poker rooms wouldn't use bots because they don't want to get caught and lose millions of dollars from it being exposed.
 
puzzlefish

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My argument against bots is simple. Why would online poker sites use bots and jeopardize their reputation? Also, this would act as a detractor for good and bad players alike. The thought of there being bots on sites like America's Cardroom is flawed for two reasons. The first being sometimes extreme variance due to a Random Number Generator's outputted results. For example, if you gave a person the digits 1-10 and told them to put them in a random sequence, you would probably do something like this (1,3,9,4,7,2,5,8,6,10) but when a Random Number Generator does this it truly looks more something like this (8,8,8,1,3,2,2,9,10,6,3,4,4,4,4,2,2,1,7,8,8,4,6,5,6,6,6,5, ect...) which can affect your results drastically.
The second point is that we tend to look at things in a bad way due to negative reinforcement. This is where you remember all of your suck out and bad beats but are unable to recall all the times you gave someone else a bad beat or sucked out on them. The possibility of bots is almost slim to none because the good players who use their site would figure this out and stop playing there.
A very good example of this is what happened to UltimateBet Poker Room and Absolute Poker back in 2011 when employees of the site were using "God Accounts" to see other players' hole cards. It is through this event where the thought of bots originated and through basic psychology poker rooms wouldn't use bots because they don't want to get caught and lose millions of dollars from it being exposed.
Your argument is flawed because you assume bots have to be superior to players, good or bad. Bots do not have to always win. If the goal of any site is to maximize rake, the optimal move would be to program bots to inflate pot sizes and maximize the number of chips being exchanged between players on cash tables or having players bust out of tournaments sooner.

There's no question that bots exist. Not sure if there are house bots and how common they are, but it would not surprise me at all.
 
Tamik228

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Do any of you get the feeling that most pokersites have bots sat at the tables, not saying they all do but I'm pritty sure most have them. For reason been to take all ur money 💷 as I have had great cards n raised only for someone to call me n hit full house from nothing n im getting pritty peed off as its happening to often now. :confused::mad::confused::eek:
They have always been and will be. This is the earnings of poker rooms and no one will tell you about it. Good luck at the poker tables. :icon_thum
 
Cajin007

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Simple but flawed

My argument against bots is simple. Why would online poker sites use bots and jeopardize their reputation? Also, this would act as a detractor for good and bad players alike. The thought of there being bots on sites like America's Cardroom is flawed for two reasons. The first being sometimes extreme variance due to a Random Number Generator's outputted results. For example, if you gave a person the digits 1-10 and told them to put them in a random sequence, you would probably do something like this (1,3,9,4,7,2,5,8,6,10) but when a Random Number Generator does this it truly looks more something like this (8,8,8,1,3,2,2,9,10,6,3,4,4,4,4,2,2,1,7,8,8,4,6,5,6,6,6,5, ect...) which can affect your results drastically.
The second point is that we tend to look at things in a bad way due to negative reinforcement. This is where you remember all of your suck out and bad beats but are unable to recall all the times you gave someone else a bad beat or sucked out on them. The possibility of bots is almost slim to none because the good players who use their site would figure this out and stop playing there.
A very good example of this is what happened to UltimateBet Poker Room and Absolute Poker back in 2011 when employees of the site were using "God Accounts" to see other players' hole cards. It is through this event where the thought of bots originated and through basic psychology poker rooms wouldn't use bots because they don't want to get caught and lose millions of dollars from it being exposed.


A site would not have to use very many BOTS in order to maintain a very minimal profit. Most BOTS are user account programs used to grind a small profit from ring games and free-rolls. Some ( BOTS ) are garbage, while some are build your own and are quite good.
The "god" accounts was/are used to monitor for collusion, and certain sore individuals abused those accounts because they were greedy.
Every site has BOTS, some are easy to spot and are quickly killed. Others have ways and means to avoid detection, and are difficult to detect, but are only as good as the person programming it. :)
 
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skaterick

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poker machines ?!

the best poker 'programs' are probably better than strong humans in a head up situation . experts say no bot now exists that can defeat good humans in a full ring game format or MTT . it's just too complicated and the information available too hard for a machine to gather and decipher . that said , an average person ( gambles too much ) might be outplayed by an average bot shoving with group 1 hands only . everyone griping about bots busting them with junk hands likely has it all backwards ! any decent poker algorithm would almost never commit a significant amount of chips with poor starting cards.
 
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brandonkremb

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Rebutal

Your argument is flawed because you assume bots have to be superior to players, good or bad. Bots do not have to always win. If the goal of any site is to maximize rake, the optimal move would be to program bots to inflate pot sizes and maximize the number of chips being exchanged between players on cash tables or having players bust out of tournaments sooner.

There's no question that bots exist. Not sure if there are house bots and how common they are, but it would not surprise me at all.

I have to refute this statement because if house bots existed they would be programmed not only to inflate pot sizes but to also take the player's entire stack. In the programming world this is considered unavoidable because you cannot have one side of the coin without the other. I took many Robotics courses and the parameters required to make that happen is beyond what we currently know in the technology field. You are able to design software to do this but not program bots to do this. However, it is very possible for the RNG software to contain code for setup hands to occur to drive up the pots which wouldn't be as obvious considering they want hands to seem normal. If they were to use fake players(aka bots) at the table it would be too obvious for players to point them out.
 
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puzzlefish

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So you're saying that a bot can't be programmed to bet random rubbish for x% of the time and play normal for 100-x% of the time? I am not convinced.

I agree about the RNG coding. Just not convinced that house bots couldn't exist and be programmed discretely to make them look like random donks. Then again why are they even necessary when there are already so many random human donks?
 
theman2017

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Pokerstars for sure has bots or some type of thing going on> But sites like poker 888 seems to be legit.
 
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bugiardops

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I think it's not necessary. This sites have got a lot of money. But I already had this feeling...
 
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molokheia

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Hi There
I dont really know if there are bots in the main sites which are most conscious abt their
responsibility....but in the small houses? Who knows?
Anyway thats why i stick to one eventually 2 houses. Thats it
 
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Brayan9052

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I think if there were bot players, Pokerstars would take action against these accounts.
 
Bluffzone68

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I play on ACR and you see this VERY often. I’ve been on the site since the end of 2017 and I can not count how many times I’ve gone through this.

For example, last night I had AK suited spades. I 3bet, guy calls. Flop comes A 9 3 ( the 9 and 3 were spades). I raise about half pot. They called. The turn comes, 7 spades. I got the nuts now. I check. Guy shoves, I snap call with my Ace high flush. We show our cards, the guy has 9 3 off suit. Sure as shit what comes on the river?? Another 9. Completely stacks me and I’m out of the tourney...


I have experienced similar situations a lot in cash games.
Plenty of hands go like that
 
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