ACR the magical river land

SouthparkSith

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If there's an RNG actually being used it's broken. For all those in disbelief that there isn't something screwed up going on ( not on this site but all of them) riddle me this?

When was the last time you shoved all in against two or less callers online and neither caller caught a piece of the board? Or how about saw a dry board that no one caught any of?

Just like the stupidy I was just involved in:
Three players
Me ace king clubs
Opp 1 7/9 offsuit
Opp 2. 5/7 clubs

Flop Ace (Spades) 8/10 clubs

I get a bet and a shove in front of me opp 1 has table covered long story short jack diamond river gives them the straight for the win.

No I'm not crying about the hand it happens but it seems like every single hand it's like this? Even when the clown with 6/3 off shoves preflop it's hits them with a straight or trips every time?

Do they have a crystal ball? Can they see what's coming before you do? Or is the system programmed to generate action? If it's the latter and I think we all agree it's programmed to create action then there's nothing Random about it?

Thoughts?

I wonder sometimes if I had folded if the flop would have been the same or if it would change to better suit the remaining players in the hand? Which again destroys the chance of it being random. The world will never know
 
Spaceman

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Imagine if you always shoved there and always won. Then nobody would have equity with the open ended straight draw. What else hand did you expected to call your shove really?

While I honestly believe there is no player who have never blamed the rng of any online poker site, you really need a lot more than just a fairly common type of action hand to talk about rigged rng. I mean you could always play small ball till the river. You wouldnt feel that confident to call a shove then. Preflop or flop shoves are high variance moves. I mean even if your opponent have only one out, it doesnt mean he wont hit it. Even as an underdog he have odds, and those odds are real and are expected to happen.

The second player have 20% odds on the flop. He got lucky but thats not considered a bad beat honestly. Especially when player3 burn with his cards two outs for your flush.

Now if you have similar hands that in 100 cases, you lost there more than 20 times, then come back to talk about it.
 
SouthparkSith

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Imagine if you always shoved there and always won. Then nobody would have equity with the open ended straight draw. What else hand did you expected to call your shove really?

While I honestly believe there is no player who have never blamed the rng of any online poker site, you really need a lot more than just a fairly common type of action hand to talk about rigged rng. I mean you could always play small ball till the river. You wouldnt feel that confident to call a shove then. Preflop or flop shoves are high variance moves. I mean even if your opponent have only one out, it doesnt mean he wont hit it. Even as an underdog he have odds, and those odds are real and are expected to happen.

The second player have 20% odds on the flop. He got lucky but thats not considered a bad beat honestly. Especially when player3 burn with his cards two outs for your flush.

Now if you have similar hands that in 100 cases, you lost there more than 20 times, then come back to talk about it.
So you believe these action flops every single flop is random?
 
Bev

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I am of the opinion that the harder you try , the worse you do on any of the sites.
Each hand is like a lottery. Yes , I have folded AK - seriously. Only because I was paying attention to the trend of how the cards flopped out.
It seems to go in runs - small cards and then it changes to big and face cards .. so if you see two - three rounds of small - then I play the small cards. Vice vercie for the big ones.
 
SouthparkSith

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Imagine if you always shoved there and always won. Then nobody would have equity with the open ended straight draw. What else hand did you expected to call your shove really?

While I honestly believe there is no player who have never blamed the rng of any online poker site, you really need a lot more than just a fairly common type of action hand to talk about rigged rng. I mean you could always play small ball till the river. You wouldnt feel that confident to call a shove then. Preflop or flop shoves are high variance moves. I mean even if your opponent have only one out, it doesnt mean he wont hit it. Even as an underdog he have odds, and those odds are real and are expected to happen.

The second player have 20% odds on the flop. He got lucky but thats not considered a bad beat honestly. Especially when player3 burn with his cards two outs for your flush.

Now if you have similar hands that in 100 cases, you lost there more than 20 times, then come back to talk about it.
If you have another look there it says " I get a bet and a shove in front of me" these people don't know what small ball is it's all in all in all the time. While yes I agree the hand could be given up. But Jesus if your folding top pair premium kicker with nut flush draw on the flop what the hell are you looking for to stay in with?

These sites continue to reward these marginal hands constantly and it's absurd. The point I was trying to make here is this.

If you delt 1000 hands at a full table live and three random people called to see a flop how many times would all three hit the same flop that strong?

Every hand is like this online no matter who calls or what their holding they somehow manage to get a piece of it and it seems to me the more ridiculous or long shot the hand the more likely it is to Yahtzee the river.

I'd have a better chance of being hit by lightning 6 times on my way to cash in all three of my winning Powerball tickets from three weeks in a row than I would of seeing all the runner runner Queens for quads and four card straight flushes with both players who stayed In the hand amazingly having the opposite ends of it in live games for the rest of my life as I see online in a month!

Again it happens and it happens in live games too but not dozens of times a week. All I'm saying is there is nothing Random about it these flops or generated based on which players remain in the hand to see the flop. There are just too many K/5 offsuit preflop raises that catch 5/5/ K for it to just be a random flop.

That being said if the board cards are predetermined based off of players remaining to see them then the outcome of the hand is also predetermined before the cards are even delt!

As far as a sample size goes how many rants do you see on here from live game bad beats? When was the last time you saw a field of 600/1000 players whittled down to a final table in two hours in a live game? It happens dozens of times a day everyday online. Just look at the high five tournament at ACR yesterday? Total run time 17.5 hours with 4.5 hours of late registration. So a winner was crowned in 13 hours out of 1170 players who put up $450 a piece.

When they do the Arizona national championship out here in September every year the buy in is $1100 and the field size is about the same it takes a week to play it with most days running longer than 13 hours?

The only explanation I've come up with is that these games are rigged to promote more action and larger bets out of the gate. If that's the case then once again there is nothing "Random" about it.

If there's a different explanation I'd love to hear it but your going to have a hard time convincing that all of these sites can run though a field of that size in one sixth the time it takes to play a similar tournament live?

Obviously freerolls are different due to the stupidity of the fish shoving their 10/7 offsuit preflop but you don't see much of that in a $450 buy-in match. ,

Following this line of thinking will lead you down a dark path as the questions get deeper the more you connect the dots. So if your a unicorns and rainbows type of person who believes it's all on the up and up you may want to just scroll on. It could get messy from here.
 
tw082

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If there's an RNG actually being used it's broken. For all those in disbelief that there isn't something screwed up going on ( not on this site but all of them) riddle me this?

When was the last time you shoved all in against two or less callers online and neither caller caught a piece of the board? Or how about saw a dry board that no one caught any of?

Just like the stupidy I was just involved in:
Three players
Me ace king clubs
Opp 1 7/9 offsuit
Opp 2. 5/7 clubs

Flop Ace (Spades) 8/10 clubs

I get a bet and a shove in front of me opp 1 has table covered long story short jack diamond river gives them the straight for the win.

No I'm not crying about the hand it happens but it seems like every single hand it's like this? Even when the clown with 6/3 off shoves preflop it's hits them with a straight or trips every time?

Do they have a crystal ball? Can they see what's coming before you do? Or is the system programmed to generate action? If it's the latter and I think we all agree it's programmed to create action then there's nothing Random about it?

Thoughts?

I wonder sometimes if I had folded if the flop would have been the same or if it would change to better suit the remaining players in the hand? Which again destroys the chance of it being random. The world will never know
:congrats:highly agreeable, they are all ridiculous at least those im allowed to play on being in cali, n ive tried most.
 
tw082

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there was an article posted on here that was written a few yrs ago about bavorio, you should check it out. i believe it applies to alot more than just them.:confused:
 
puzzlefish

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Yeah this type of stuff seems to happen on all sites but to different extents, which makes me believe that it is not just poker naturally causing the weird dealing and boards. There are RNG audits that show that all cards are dealt in a manner that is within the normal boundaries of probability for each card and each type of draw, but there are no checks on how often the draws and cards meet each other on any given board (i.e. how often do sets run into straights, and those into flushes and full houses etc.).
 
Poker Orifice

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While I honestly believe there is no player who have never blamed the rng of any online poker site,

.


Trust me... there are MANY! (actually I'm certain it is the majority of players... the ones who write stuff like this OP's orignal post are either newer players or just bad ones who have never chosen to work on getting better at playing the game (most often they do not even know what that entails).

There was a time for me about 3 months into my online poker playing experience where I went on a downswing playing 9-man reg. speed SnG's.... I could not believe how unlucky I was getting (or so I thought). In reality it was a bit unrealisstic for me to think I'd be a winning player right out of the gate (due to variance I'd actually placed 2nd in my very first game I'd ever played online (a $1 mtt on Fulltilt with ~1,000 entrants 'The Ferguson' & won $114). I did some reading (a few poker books) & a bit of studying & then found myself running at ROI -10% over my first few hundred games. It just seemed like I was getting VERY unlucky!
I then found an excellent SnG Strategy guide for me at the time, buckled down & put in some real study time.... and learned about what variance is... and then worked at embracing it (discovering why it is such a great thing in poker). In short order my ROI improved to +10% in the very same games ($2 & $3 STT SNG's at the time... on Stars & Fulltilt).

So even though I felt I was very unlucky for a bit during the start of my playing poker online, I NEVER believed it to be rigged. For some newcomers who ponder over whether or not the sites are rigged, this typically goes away once they get decent at the game (although some seem to need to hang onto those thoughts as they don't bother to consider that they're just not very good at the game (< that is saying it nicely))
 
Poker Orifice

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If there's a different explanation I'd love to hear it but your going to have a hard time convincing that all of these sites can run though a field of that size in one sixth the time it takes to play a similar tournament live?


Have you considered taking a look at the structure? Hello...... :eek:
 
Poker Orifice

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I am of the opinion that the harder you try , the worse you do on any of the sites.


What is it you actually do 'to try'? What is the definition of 'trying' for you when it comes to nlhe tournament poker?

Personally I am of the opinion 'the more you put in, the more you will get out' (as is the case in many things in life). My own tournament game... meh.. not the greatest these days imo and I have put in literally thousands of hours of study time 'off the tables' since beginning playing them. These days I don't play many tournaments just a handful on Sundays as I mostly play cash tables. I find my tournament play is a bit rusty vs. many of the regs. who play today. I know that if I wanted to have a chance at being competitive today I would need to try much harder that I have been... & would likely need to work at it even more than in the past as the fields are just that much more competitive today.

I am positive that the top MTT players online (at all levels, micro, Low, mid, & high stakes) would strongly disagree trying harder brings worse results as I am also positive that all of the ones who are doing well at the game are trying hard both on & off the tables.
 
Poker Orifice

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Each hand is like a lottery.

I'm sure some players look at it this way..... just not the ones who know how to play. Of course anything can happen... 4% odds on the turn do hit 1 out of 25 times.
Suggesting that each hand is like a lottery.... does this mean we can ignore all mathematical probabilities & odds?

Yes , I have folded AK - seriously.

Folding AK is often the correct play preflop given the action ahead of us, stack sizes, size of the blinds, ICM considerations, etc. etc. Often times given the situation our AK will likely only have around 18% equity pre making it an easy fold. Mathematically this would then be a correct fold.

Only because I was paying attention to the trend of how the cards flopped out.

So you only folded the AK because of how the previous cards had been dealt off the deck?... in previous hands to the one in question? I'm certain that the cards that have come previously have zero mathematical bearing on the hand we're currently involved in. (the 8h could have been deal on 3 flops in-a-row... this does not make it any less or more likely that it will be dealt on the 4th flop)
It seems to go in runs - small cards and then it changes to big and face cards .. so if you see two - three rounds of small - then I play the small cards. Vice vercie for the big ones.


Reading this last sentence, I'd suggest you try harder on putting your thinking to better use instead of wasting it on stuff that really has no bearing on whether or not you're going to win a hand.... or 'make the correct decision(s)'. There's just an infinite amount of things to work on that can make a real difference to one's game.
 
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I've played off and on, on acr, and frankly i do believe something fishy happens on this site... like legit insanity type hands.. all day.. everyday... fishy as hell. I play on other sites and have played on other sites in past.. and never seen the kind of variance as i have on ACR... Idk if i will ever put another dollar on that site.
 
Spaceman

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So you believe these action flops every single flop is random?

Tbh I dont play that much in ACR. Is it every single flop an action flop realy? I bet everything I have that this is an overgeneralised statement.

And to answer to your question about rigged action hands in tournaments. poker sites makes money through rake. If we were talking about action hands in cash games were there is rake in every pot that would be a completely different thing. But in tourneys the rake is getting paid by the buyin. I can understand cash game hands but why on earth a poker site would want to rig a tourney????:confused::confused:

Ps. Are we really comparing live to online tourneys from a time perspective? The same hand would take a lot more for live to be played compared to online for obvious reasons.
 
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show 100 hands and then we can analyze them. one hand means nothing
 
Peppinotom

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For sure it is all rigged, why do you think all the pokersites are in Malta, Gibraltar and Isle of man, where are more sheep and cows than human being? We are talking about a billion Dollar industry and all the employees, server, electricity bill and last but not least stock holders have to be payed. i'm pretty sure years ago they hired a special programmer, only to implement the line:
(if
SouthparkSith
is sitting at the table with Player 1 , Player2.....
then give alwyas good cards to him [respectivly his own opinion]
and let player 3, player 1, player 2 win)

writing this, I got a straight with TKo and beated pocket sixes.

How probably is THAT?

Man if you really think it is rigged, there's only one logical next step: STOP PLAYING and neverever start again!!!:call2:
 
SouthparkSith

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show 100 hands and then we can analyze them. one hand means nothing
This hand was purely an example but basically it's a common every hand type for that site in my opinion.

I think most players online once they are no longer involved in the hand no longer pay attention. They either do something else or switch to another table ECT. But if you watch the hands your not involved in there as well you will quickly see what I mean. It is extremely rare to see two players go to the flop and the hand end there.

There always seems to be something for anyone/everyone who sees the flop. That's why I posted the hand example I did. Not to break down that specific hand but to expose the ridiculous set ups that are a common hand here rather than an rare occurrence.

Just watch next time your not in a hand there see how many players you lose along the way after they see a flop.

They've turned it into TV without the editing is a good example of an explanation.

When you watch the wsop or a event on TV they show you the big pots,exciting action Flops and big bluffs. Then they edit out the blind steals, big blind walks, hands that don't have any action ECT.

I think ACR and others have manipulated a system within their software/programming that creates these multiway action high interest hands.

Now before everyone freeks out on me let me be clear. I think it's set up based on the seats at the tables and not seat up for any one specific player to have an advantage. I also think that's how they get away with doing it.

We've all seen it the jackass with the chip stack 15 times the average who's shoving all in with 8/3 off suit and cracking aces. It's not luck it's not skill it's that seat is in alignment with the predetermined cards set to roll out on the the board. As soon as he gets a table changes he's usually busted in ten minutes.

The point here is if I'm wrong what's the correct explanation to these situations? If I'm right how is this being allowed to happen and what's to stop them from setting this up for specific players to win?

( When I say you I don't mean you specifically as I have no idea what you do when you not in a hand?) Please don't take that part personally it's not ment that way.
 
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I think that after you take a few bad beats and are running bad, things start to look fishy.
 
SouthparkSith

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For sure it is all rigged, why do you think all the pokersites are in Malta, Gibraltar and Isle of man, where are more sheep and cows than human being? We are talking about a billion Dollar industry and all the employees, server, electricity bill and last but not least stock holders have to be payed. i'm pretty sure years ago they hired a special programmer, only to implement the line:
(if
SouthparkSith
is sitting at the table with Player 1 , Player2.....
then give alwyas good cards to him [respectivly his own opinion]
and let player 3, player 1, player 2 win)

writing this, I got a straight with TKo and beated pocket sixes.

How probably is THAT?

Man if you really think it is rigged, there's only one logical next step: STOP PLAYING and neverever start again!!!:call2:
If you have K/10 offsuit hit a straight and are beat by pocket sixes what kind of other cards are exposed on the turn river? They make a boat,Quads? Again it just reinforced what I'm talking about? As far as quitting no one is bitching about this as I said to begin I'm not crying about the hand.

I want to prove the theory and figure out how exactly it works if it's proven correct. If we can prove it's happening we can exploit it's processes and become more profitable. If they can exploit the system and choose to do so to speed up game times and generate more buying and rebuys. I have no problem reverse engineering their system and exploiting it's dependencies.

It's no different than spotting a tell in my opinion. The more information you have the better decisions your able to make if they are doing this and I believe they are there is extremely valuable information to be had that could make you way more profitable.
 
Zorba

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I am of the opinion that the harder you try , the worse you do on any of the sites.
Each hand is like a lottery. Yes , I have folded AK - seriously. Only because I was paying attention to the trend of how the cards flopped out.
It seems to go in runs - small cards and then it changes to big and face cards .. so if you see two - three rounds of small - then I play the small cards. Vice vercie for the big ones.
Damn, I thought that I was the only one that discovered the secret, I used to use my magic 8 ball to make decisions for me and then I came across this method and now I am losing at twice the rate of my magic 8 ball days.


68343708.jpg


:star:
 
Poker Orifice

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This hand was purely an example but basically it's a common every hand type for that site in my opinion.

I think most players online once they are no longer involved in the hand no longer pay attention. They either do something else or switch to another table ECT. But if you watch the hands your not involved in there as well you will quickly see what I mean. It is extremely rare to see two players go to the flop and the hand end there.

There always seems to be something for anyone/everyone who sees the flop. That's why I posted the hand example I did. Not to break down that specific hand but to expose the ridiculous set ups that are a common hand here rather than an rare occurrence.

Just watch next time your not in a hand there see how many players you lose along the way after they see a flop.

They've turned it into TV without the editing is a good example of an explanation.

When you watch the WSOP or a event on TV they show you the big pots,exciting action Flops and big bluffs. Then they edit out the blind steals, big blind walks, hands that don't have any action ECT.

I think ACR and others have manipulated a system within their software/programming that creates these multiway action high interest hands.

Now before everyone freeks out on me let me be clear. I think it's set up based on the seats at the tables and not seat up for any one specific player to have an advantage. I also think that's how they get away with doing it.

We've all seen it the jackass with the chip stack 15 times the average who's shoving all in with 8/3 off suit and cracking aces. It's not luck it's not skill it's that seat is in alignment with the predetermined cards set to roll out on the the board. As soon as he gets a table changes he's usually busted in ten minutes.

The point here is if I'm wrong what's the correct explanation to these situations? If I'm right how is this being allowed to happen and what's to stop them from setting this up for specific players to win?

( When I say you I don't mean you specifically as I have no idea what you do when you not in a hand?) Please don't take that part personally it's not ment that way.


First off, you're basing these observations off of what games specifically? Freerolls? Where players are playing atc's & you're seeing 5 to a flop.

I for one want you to keep wasting your time on this stuff instead of getting better at the game. You're good for the poker econonmy. (when I say 'you' or you're.... I simply mean those with similar viewpoint (rigged theorists).. please don't be offended)
 
Poker Orifice

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Damn, I thought that I was the only one that discovered the secret, I used to use my magic 8 ball to make decisions for me and then I came across this method and now I am losing at twice the rate of my magic 8 ball days.



68343708.jpg



:star:


You're obviously just not switching over from the little ones to the big ones at the right time. Timing is everything with these corrupt offshore poker companies. It's also always better to be doing this with the bigstack (< cannot lose if your stack is bigger & not just because you have the other player covered..... no! You actually cannot lose. Object of the game is to just ship it in with your 83o at the start of the game & when you hit (If you've timed it right for the 'little ones') a quick double up will assure you are the bigstack and the rest of the game will be smooth sailing (and that sailing will be over quickly because the site will be making sure it gets the game over fast!).
BUT DO NOT forget when it's time to switch over to the big cards!!!! (< key point to watch for!)
 
SouthparkSith

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First off, you're basing these observations off of what games specifically? Freerolls? Where players are playing atc's & you're seeing 5 to a flop.

I for one want you to keep wasting your time on this stuff instead of getting better at the game. You're good for the poker econonmy. (when I say 'you' or you're.... I simply mean those with similar viewpoint (rigged theorists).. please don't be offended)
These observations are coming from tournaments at that site not really including freerolls in this because of the player base. I don't really play micros much either so tournaments with buy-in ranging from $20+2 up to the $2500 for the millions on Sundays.
 
SouthparkSith

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First off, you're basing these observations off of what games specifically? Freerolls? Where players are playing atc's & you're seeing 5 to a flop.

I for one want you to keep wasting your time on this stuff instead of getting better at the game. You're good for the poker econonmy. (when I say 'you' or you're.... I simply mean those with similar viewpoint (rigged theorists).. please don't be offended)
I understand why you might see this as a waste of time. I however see it as part of the game. If you're going to play online and you know this is going on and you can figure out how it works, what triggers it when it occurs and so on. It could be more valuable than any information you could ever gather on opponents for a life time!

Imagine being in a tournament being delt pocket aces in the blind and then knowing without a doubt that they are no good before ever investing another chip in the pot.

Or being delt 8/3 on the button and facing 3 all ins in front of you and knowing without a doubt the flop will be 8/8/8 before it's delt?

If a system is being used that system can be exploited given enough information. That's my interest here. Not to cry about the suckout artists getting thier card.
 
Zorba

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You're obviously just not switching over from the little ones to the big ones at the right time. Timing is everything with these corrupt offshore poker companies. It's also always better to be doing this with the bigstack (< cannot lose if your stack is bigger & not just because you have the other player covered..... no! You actually cannot lose. Object of the game is to just ship it in with your 83o at the start of the game & when you hit (If you've timed it right for the 'little ones') a quick double up will assure you are the bigstack and the rest of the game will be smooth sailing (and that sailing will be over quickly because the site will be making sure it gets the game over fast!).
BUT DO NOT forget when it's time to switch over to the big cards!!!! (< key point to watch for!)
My main fault with that was if there was an 8 on the board whether it was a high card or a low card......It's just so confusing......:bandit:

My options are limited now, I'm glad that I can still play some CC games, WPN and Itops are the only CC games that I can play now, I suppose that I should complain also, many times recently, I have been getting KO'd by runner runner for straights or flushes or 2 and 3 outters on the river, all we can hope is to get it in ahead, we can't control the outcome. If people want to think that if small cards are active and other such rot it's all good for us, these are the people we want to be playing with, sure they may get lucky occasionally, we need to look at the long run, that's where the gravy is.

:bike:
 
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