60% B&M rake - is this reasosnable?

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NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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I've never played Bricks & Mortar poker before, and I rang my local Gala casino up today to find out about their Rookie Tournament that they have every Thursday night. Bear in mind here that I baulk at paying more than 10% rake for an online tourney ;)

So, it's £10 towards the prize fund, plus a £1 registration fee (everything's fine so far ;)) plus a £5 session fee! :eek: When I asked what a session fee was, I was told that "it pays for your dealer"
  1. Is this effectively £6 rake on a £10 prize fund, i.e. 60% rake? :eek:
  2. Is this normal for B&M poker?
  3. Is it possible to play poker (legally) in UK bars/clubs?
  4. If it is possible, are they any cheaper in terms of rake?
Admittedly Gala casinos are part of an enormous group that includes Gala Bingo, Coral Bookmakers and Eurobet Bookmakers, but this casino charges for all drinks and food, whereas casinos I've visited in the past would provide non-alcoholic drinks and snacks for free

Am I being ripped off? :dontknow:
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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The problem is the buy-in amount is so small the casino is not making any $$ without that extra fee. B&M rates are higher than online (it helps to pay for those buildings and flashing lights) but 60% is too much. Find out what other tourneys they offer and see if the session fee is included in those as well.
 
SavagePenguin

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Yeah, that seems high.

A local charity has an annual tournament and they take 50% of the entry fee for the prize money. But they also make $ on selling beer and food and stuff.

A local charity has a weekly tournament. It costs $6 to get in the door, and $20 to play the tournament with $10 of it going into the prize pool. I quit going when they started taking $2 of that to put in a bad beat pot. Bleh!
Of course, after the tournament they have ring games all over the place. No rake on those, though the volunteer dealers accept tips. Some girls go there every week to make $ as dealers.
 
Irexes

Irexes

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That's insane and absolutely can't be beaten in the long run.

My live casino, Mint Southend is 10% vig on tournies. At £100+ they have dealers.
 
momoney2

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Pretty steep rake

I dealt tournaments last summer at a local casino in the Seattle-area. We had a $45 buy-in tourney, where $40 went to the prize pool and $5 went to the house. Usually the players finishing ITM would tip about 5%-10% of their prize to the dealer pool, though tipping was optional.
Other small buy-in tourneys around the area usually go from $25 to $35 with $5 to $10 for the house. Once again ITM'ers usually tip 5% - 10%.
But even at these higher rakes, a £16 buy-in with £6 going to the house is pretty steep. You shouldn't have to tip the dealers, if you don't finish ITM.
I wouldn't play it unless it's the only game around.
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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Well it wasn't quite as bad as it seemed (still not brilliant though):
  1. That £5 session fee is a one-off for that night, and whilst the main tourney is still continuing they have other £20+£2 and £50+£5 STT tournies starting (theoretically for those that have been knocked out, but in reality some people that had not played in the main tourney were playing the STTs). The main tourney starts at 8pm, the STTs start any time up until 2am, and start each time they have the 10 players needed
  2. Although punters out in the main casino (e.g. playing Blackjack or Roulette) have to pay for food and drinks, non-alcoholic drinks are free in the poker room, and they provided two small trays of sandwiches (for about 50 people :D) during the break at 10pm
I was quite surprised how loose a lot of the play was, and how many people were clearly playing under the influence of alchol or drugs (or both). I still didn't manage to win any money though, and really felt that I was probably playing too tight :eek:

It was a fun evening however, I learnt quite a lot, and I'll certainly be doing it again...
My live casino, Mint Southend is 10% vig on tournies.
Apologies for the n00b questions, but what is vig short for?
At £100+ they have dealers.
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean - how can you play poker without a dealer?
 
vanquish

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i probably wouldnt play anything with more than 25% rake
 
pigpen02

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Vig is short for vigorish, the fees charged by bookies and loan sharks.
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

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I guess it depends on what your goal is-- as a profit making opportunity this is clearly -ev. If you think of it as a fee for "live play" experience, then perhaps it is a reasonable spend. Likewise if you consider it simply "entertainment" (as casinos are forever advocating we think of our gambling dollar).
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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Vig is short for vigorish, the fees charged by bookies and loan sharks.
OK thanks for that clarification pigpen02, my vocabulary is expanding rapidly since joining this forum, another word that I've never encountered before :eek:
A local charity has a weekly tournament. It costs $6 to get in the door, and $20 to play the tournament with $10 of it going into the prize pool. I quit going when they started taking $2 of that to put in a bad beat pot. Bleh!
I realise it's for a good cause, but that sounds quite steep!

The manager of Gala mentioned pubs and clubs having tournies in the UK - I was under the impression that you needed to be specially licensed for gambling, anyone know of UK pubs/clubs doing poker, and whether it's legal?
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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I guess it depends on what your goal is-- as a profit making opportunity this is clearly -ev. If you think of it as a fee for "live play" experience, then perhaps it is a reasonable spend. Likewise if you consider it simply "entertainment" (as casinos are forever advocating we think of our gambling dollar).
I'm looking at the potential of profiting long-term, assuming that my play improves a lot, but the wife and I sometimes go and have an evening out at the casino as a leisure activity, and tonight's visit didn't cost me any more for the evening than it usually would anyway. Although it was supposedly a Rookie Night, there were some extremely good poker players there that were enjoying their evening of fishing :D
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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Apparently from 8th to 16th March they are having a Poker Festival at the casino, and during that week there will be no session charge. This will mean that the rookie tournament that week will be £10+£1, instead of £10+£1+£5. That's quite a big difference! :rolleyes:
 
riffpoker

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not everyone has the belagio right down the road and high rakes are what you pay sometimes to sit down for a game.
 
OzExorcist

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not everyone has the belagio right down the road and high rakes are what you pay sometimes to sit down for a game.

True - we've only got one casino in town, for ring games the charge a per-hour fee and rake each pot. Sigh.
 
R

rdr

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Where I play (B&M) they have Poker Pro and charge $3 or 10% of the pot, which ever is the least .. in other words $3 max ....

SNGs $25 + $5, any SNG over $25 is 10% ... 50 + 5, 100 + 10 etc ....

Poker Pro is like playing on line all digital no dealers .. faster & no tips ...

Other Casinos with dealers are at 10%,- $5 max ...
 
R

Rushstreet

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Its impossible to beat 60% rake in the long run IMO.
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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As stated in post 6, it's not really 60% unless you just play the one main tourney and go home...
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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Played in the rookie tournament last night, buy-in £10 + £1 registration fee + £5 session fee, total £16. Spent £4 on blackjack, total £20 spend. Parking machine broken, so no charge for parking. Took first place in the tournament, £220 prize money, so that's £200 profit on the evening. :)

Now I know that some of you guys have won thousands of dollars at a time, but my biggest previous win is $25, and this win equates to roughly $400, so it's far and away my biggest win to date.

Thanks for all your help and support, guys! :)
 
wachinpntdry

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sounds high to me....

everything from session fee.....to 10% rake....all sounds high to me

Foxwoods is the only casino I've ever played poker at.....so I only have one reference point.....but

there all the cash games up to 10/20 are $4 maximum rake...think in 10/20 pot needs to be 80 or 120 before rake maxes out at $4.....5/10 think 60 or 80 for max rake....sometimes in really small pots the rake can be high %.....but prob 80% of pots rake amounts to less than 5%

only played a few tounies there (all more than 2 oe 3 years ago) ....one was 26+4........one was 50+6......and one 100+12.....so around 12% total fee...

and we got windows :) ....can walk 20 ft and go outside for a smoke break.......and all the free beverages of your choice....and get comped for playin

I think foxwoods has spoiled me for any other poker room :rolleyes:
 
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