This is a discussion on What could artificial intelligence do to online poker? within the online poker forums, in the Poker News and Events section; Morgan Stanley analysts believe the rise of AI online poker bots could hurt the industry.
What are your thoughts?
Online Poker Under Threat As Machines Force
As much as we love science, some of its downfalls might hurt not only the online poker industry, but many other aspects of the Human kind History and accomplishments as well. I hope some scientists can stand up and fight in order to preserve what makes us humans.
Morgan Stanley analysts believe the rise of AI online poker bots could hurt the industry.
What are your thoughts?
Was reading about the advancements in AI poker vs Real People. Here is a video I snagged from YouTube that shows how an AI beats actually Poker Pro's. I mean, it actually makes good calls/raises (basically is a really good bluffer with multiple Out's available). I'd like to take on an AI heads up and see how it plays. Hrmmm....
Since most of the comments are personal opinions about general AI, I'll add my two cents.
There's no need to fear AI if we fully develop human intelligence.
Sounds silly but there's a lot of unexplored territory in the human mind that only a few in history have exposed.
Right now people are getting dumber over time because we're just resting on the work of our machines as we occupy ourselves with endless distractions. It's nothing new, we've been doing this for a while but the human mind is a massively powerful and beautiful thing that can't be touched at its full potential. At the moment, due to the nature of the work structure in corporate society, all we have become are poorly functioning machines.
I'm quite aware in this field due to my work and we're only losing the intelligence war because we're glorifying machine power over our own while feeding it with our daily work as AI/ML engineers.
It's a strategy for morons - akin to standing on the railroad and moving forward when you see the light instead of to the side.
That's why I prefer to promote knowledge, education and development of the self in my spare time. Technology has a place, I just don't see how it could possibly be above us if we are to remain the dominant species on this planet.
Ultimately though, I do believe we'll be just fine. I spend a lot of time coaching the younger generation and communicating with them. They have far better heads on their shoulders than the people of my generation did at our age. When they take their place as the leaders of society eventually, we'll be just fine.
To answer the topic though: It might hit the bottom line of the companies but there will still be hordes of players trying to beat the odds. Tbh, there are so many ways to stop sophisticated bots that the companies just don't see because they don't understand the tech.
As long as there are money at the middle there will be good guys and also some bad ones. I just hope the good guys will be one step ahead, and the cameras will find the solutions to stop any kind of cheating attempt, whether it's bots or any other kind of artificial intelligence.
Artificial intelligence definitely harms online poker. A weak player will always lose to the robot and only a regular can determine the bot. Many regulars make good use of machine mistakes and know how to beat them. As they say, everything is relative.
I've played against boots on fictional games when I started to learn poker, and they most often earned only they paid all bets when you really had a good hand that is was easy to play against them, the more if it happens will be a disaster in poker.
If top pros have a hard time beating bots, then I guess the poker game will then be played by who is a better poker programmer, bots vs bots. Unless something change with virtual reality and online poker starts simulating more live poker so that bots cant be used.
Take my poker advices with a grain of salt.
There will always be legit sites, who don't allow or use bots . It's not the average poker player I worry about. It's the sites themselves getting greedy. A law should be written that a poker bot cannot be considered a prop player in tournament poker or cash games. Period.
Gosh, I hate the idea of AI bots. I've read so much on this, that the sites use them but they are not effective and also just the opposite. As far as I am concerned, I don't think it will help my odds out too much if I am trying to use strategery (haha) on a robot.
i honestly think that online poker will grow these upcoming years slowly but in 10/15 years there will be the brutal downfall to it , as the industry will be infested by bots in a big way and poker rooms wont be able to even fight it , i am not an expert on the subject but lets say i am running a bot on my account i get caught and account is banned , i change just few details to unbalance more my bot and not hurt my winning rate that much ( it would take only few minutes i wont have to build a new bot ) and get it grinding on a friend or family member account and keep it going without mentionning the super bots that still dont get in the poker rooms radars... the evil geniuses are most of the time ( to not say always ) ahead of those defending. exemple the video games industry is worth billions and expanding every year and they are spending a huge chunk on security so that people pay for the game , the best they could do is a month or two before it gets cracked and people play it for free all over the world... games worth 75$ we get it for a dollar in africa.... ( for the lazy people that dont want to take the time and search for it ^^ )
I am actually real disappointing to here that top poker sites like PokerStars allows or does nothing to stop bots. I mostly play online and have not noticed anything odd to call another player a bot. Can someone explain what I should be looking for to determine if I am playing against a bot?
It is worrisome this situation of Artificial Intelligence in poker sites ... This is the most important reason why we must be studying more and preparing better ... It is clear that the Bots usually try to decipher our strategy through our game patterns ... for that reason we should not be predictable in our game ... we must be varying
I think it will be similar to what happened to chess. I.e. Not much changes. The game just evolves to a higher level.
As with chess, players will be fearful that players are using poker programs in the background to calculate the correct move.
Similarly with chess, players can study GTO poker more easily and thus improve faster.
Just because bots were made for chess (that can beat the top chess players)...it did not mean the end of chess. Same with poker imo. It's just evolution
What could? You mean what does. There's ai bots for long time in online poker.
Pokerstars and mostly all of the big poker apps has given back money to players that was ripped by such things and the guys who used ai bots now are banned from online poker, but ofc there's yet lots of them who weren't been caught.
re: Poker & What could artificial intelligence do to online poker?
As mainly an online player, this actually worries me some. Unless sites develop efficient countermeasures to detect and get rid of ever more sophisticated bots, I can see a scenario where the impact of bots hurts players’ trust in the platforms enough that it is not a viable business anymore (as others have said, it’s all about the bottom line). Poker as a game will obviously survive and be fine, but maybe the future paradoxically is a return to live games - or a migration to whatever new kind of gaming platform might come along...?
At some point, AI will beat humans at poker. For example, at chess, stockfish module was the best bot for years (much better than the world champion), and then some AI bots appeared and kicked its fishy ass. Poker is much more complex, but with probability and statistic information about players these beast will become unbeatable some day
in a not too distant time it will no longer be possible to play online poker because bots would be insurmountable and the big internet monopolies would not hesitate to continue making millionaires against humans a very good question with a sad ending for us
Artificial Intelligence is a big problem for online poker. I believe that poker rooms should develop a mechanism for identifying real players, such as making video rooms. Or you already need to develop a poker training course "How to beat AI"
Could be! (I haven't looked up any info regarding this, but it doesn't surprise me at all.)
My guess is there will ALWAYS be an ongoing battle between poker sites and bots. The task ahead is to stay ahead of the technology.
Here is a clipping from one of the articles on one site in 2010
"But now another scandal has surfaced related to poker bots, and even in the largest poker room — PokerStars. Fuel to the fire was added by the fact that during the scandal that broke out on the largest poker forums (including twoplustwo.com), the bots continued to play, or rather work. The PokerStars administration did not take any action for a long time, eventually stating that They were conducting their own investigation. They won't tell us exactly how it happened, but their programmers and access to any statistics for some reason lost speed to a group of users who relied on open data on the Internet (pokertableratings.com).
And it all started with the fact that the user "malloc" on the forum twoplustwo.com stated that he found 3 PokerStars players with the same game at the same rates. They changed tables through the same number of hands. Of course, the thread instantly became the hottest on the forum.
Three bots played first on NL200, then on NL100 and NL50, while remaining in the black at all limits and gaining a solid rakeback.
And while poker fans were rummaging through the statistics, the PokerTableRatings website managed to make an official statement by publishing the names of 10 PokerStars users suspected of having no heartbeat and other shortcomings of artificial intelligence.
They played a total of 8,320,121 hands at THE nl50, NL100, and NL200 limits, generating $186,572 rake and receiving $57,839 profit (excluding vip bonuses). At the time of this post, all 10 players were continuing their offensive on PokerStars.
Yes. Bots will be created, implemented in the rooms and take some of the money from the players. It is important that their share at the tables is so small that it does not harm the industry. This is a function of room managers. Players can only detect the bot and try to find its weaknesses, and it is better to avoid playing with it at all if there are serious suspicions.
Artificial intelligence, such as the Autobots interfere with the regular live players to play online poker. I have heard that bots can be identified by certain factors: the time for their turn is the same, the range, inactivity in the chat, etc. But that doesn't mean they're invincible. You can beat anyone) Many regulars make good use of machine errors and know how to beat them. The good news is that developers are fighting them and banning bots on poker rooms.