Old School Players GG WSOP

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eetenor

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Several of the "Old School Players" are running deep in multiple GG wsop tournaments.

Daniel Negreanu has 15 cashes and leads the field for most cashes.

Phil Hellmuth and Mike the mouth also cashing.

There are several other less obvious players also finding success in the series.

GG does not allow the use of a HUD. Do you think this makes a difference in the results for these players?

Does this mean that the data that is no longer available reduces the GTO edge?
Does this suggest that the inability to use helpful software on another computer reveals anything about personal poker skills sets vs data reading skill sets?

How much of this is just variance?

:hmmmm::fight:
 
Poker Orifice

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Honestly most of the 'old school players' are old school because they've been left behind in the dust. Any who are still competitive on a regular basis are only able to do so because they are actively working on their games.

Playing with software isn't about 'data reading skills'.

Many online crushers don't use PT4 or HoldemManager while playing... especially high stakes MTT.


"Variance"
 
GGthiagoXD

GGthiagoXD

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Several of the "Old School Players" are running deep in multiple GG WSOP tournaments.

Daniel Negreanu has 15 cashes and leads the field for most cashes.

Phil Hellmuth and Mike the mouth also cashing.

There are several other less obvious players also finding success in the series.

GG does not allow the use of a HUD. Do you think this makes a difference in the results for these players?

Does this mean that the data that is no longer available reduces the GTO edge?
Does this suggest that the inability to use helpful software on another computer reveals anything about personal poker skills sets vs data reading skill sets?

How much of this is just variance?

:hmmmm::fight:
I played my third tournament on PS $ 4.40 180 people in 2009, I had no idea what poker was and I entered the tournament, there was no HM HUD for me so it was incredible imagine these guys in their minds as they are trained to act without assistance, real monsters of poker. Who knows, maybe one day I will do a FT to be able to post here. lol
 
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eetenor

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Honestly most of the 'old school players' are old school because they've been left behind in the dust. Any who are still competitive on a regular basis are only able to do so because they are actively working on their games.

Playing with software isn't about 'data reading skills'.

Many online crushers don't use PT4 or HoldemManager while playing... especially high stakes MTT.


"Variance"


Thank U 4 your response.

Your response seems confrontational. Why did you feel the need for that?

Dnegs and others are Old School Players as that is where they started. Even then they were doing more data analysis than their peers that is why they were successful.

Using software while you play is data reading.

That is not a bad thing, poker reads live or online are all data reading. It is just the data is more concise with a HUD.

Acting on that HUD data only does not apply to all players as you point out but many players not having that data to rely on, may not be as effective in making decisions as often as if they knew your fold to 3 bet % for instance.
So one wonders if there is not a talent advantage that is equaled out when one can estimate your villain's actions better based on frequency data that PT4 and others give to you?

While the very best at anything are always multifaceted my question was directed more at the average player in the field even in a 2k >buy-in.



After all Dnegs is cashing these events not crushing them.

I hope you find joy in life
:)
 
deeznutzz

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HUDs basically gives you a summary of your opponents style of play which can be extremely helpful especially when multi-tabling. All the data provided by a HUD can also be obtained by simply paying attention to the play going on at your table.
 
Poker Orifice

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HUDs are not allowed on partypoker... & yet the same HSMTT crushers are killing it there too.
 
Poker Orifice

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Thank U 4 your response.

Your response seems confrontational. Why did you feel the need for that?


That's completely your perception ('bad read'). If you'd looked at your PT-16 *(post HUD) you'd have seen that there was no confrontation intended on my part whatsoever.
 
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Maurits92

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I honestly don't think the using or not using of HUDs influences their decisionmaking all that much. They didn't have those back in the days either
 
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LotharMcDowner

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HUDs are a crutch. Of course the guys who actually pay attention to the game win without HUDs, people who rely on them become lazy and distracted. That being said, HUDs are not such a huge advantage that it cannot be overcome, otherwise over time everyone using them would have equal win/loss.
 
Roller

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HUDs are considerably more advantageous for players when multi tabling a Ton of tables. It's allows better players to make faster and more accurate decisions and player reads on the fly. This in turn is making them much more profitable and is a huge advantage when playing against a player not using one at the time.

HUDs for All or HUDs for not.
 
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vikamli

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is someone realy take GG poker serious...
old school players??? wtf
do not belive in this bull shits
GG poker is some kind of funny version for retarded people
Lamest site ever
 
Shumkoolie

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Honestly most of the 'old school players' are old school because they've been left behind in the dust. Any who are still competitive on a regular basis are only able to do so because they are actively working on their games.

Guys like Erik Seidel continue to be competitive because, like you said, they continue to work on their games. Daniel's another example of that. While Doyle Brunson no longer plays the tournament circuit, he continues to play in cash because, even at 80+ years old, he's extremely talented, smart, and has just simply seen and experienced more poker than anyone alive. Sure, some online players may have played more hands than Doyle, but they're folding a ton of hands and not observing tables and how players play because they move on to the next hand.

Totally agree with you there, and this applies even to guys who are much younger that no longer keep up with the latest strategy. Shaun Deeb, who's done extremely well in the WCOOP's over the years admitted as much on the DAT Poker Podcast, that his No Limit game is simply not where it needs to be to be competitive against the current modern player, and he's hardly old school when you compare him to people like Seidel.

After all Dnegs is cashing these events not crushing them.

I don't necessarily agree with that assessment of Daniel. To get on the deep runs he's on, he's navigating through tough fields over multiple events. He's just not winning those BIG spots deep in tournaments. Some element of luck factors into this. So I'd say he's crushed this series, as well as Ryan Laplante, who's cashed a LOT of events too.

A small number of people do that well in relation to how many people play in the series, so I'd say they're crushing.

is someone realy take GG poker serious...
old school players??? wtf
do not belive in this bull shits
GG poker is some kind of funny version for retarded people
Lamest site ever

If you look at the volume of players that play on that site currently, I'd say that it's hardly lame. It's emerged as the biggest competitor of pokerstars. With Stars recently pulling out of China, Macau and Taiwan, those people are going to be moving their bankrolls over to GG. I know GG Is available in China, though not 100% sure about Macau and Taiwan, but that's a large player pool right there if it's even China only.

And yes, many people take GG Poker seriously.
 
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eetenor

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Guys like Erik Seidel continue to be competitive because, like you said, they continue to work on their games. Daniel's another example of that. While Doyle Brunson no longer plays the tournament circuit, he continues to play in cash because, even at 80+ years old, he's extremely talented, smart, and has just simply seen and experienced more poker than anyone alive. Sure, some online players may have played more hands than Doyle, but they're folding a ton of hands and not observing tables and how players play because they move on to the next hand.

Totally agree with you there, and this applies even to guys who are much younger that no longer keep up with the latest strategy. Shaun Deeb, who's done extremely well in the WCOOP's over the years admitted as much on the DAT Poker Podcast, that his No Limit game is simply not where it needs to be to be competitive against the current modern player, and he's hardly old school when you compare him to people like Seidel.



I don't necessarily agree with that assessment of Daniel. To get on the deep runs he's on, he's navigating through tough fields over multiple events. He's just not winning those BIG spots deep in tournaments. Some element of luck factors into this. So I'd say he's crushed this series, as well as Ryan Laplante, who's cashed a LOT of events too.

A small number of people do that well in relation to how many people play in the series, so I'd say they're crushing.



If you look at the volume of players that play on that site currently, I'd say that it's hardly lame. It's emerged as the biggest competitor of PokerStars. With Stars recently pulling out of China, Macau and Taiwan, those people are going to be moving their bankrolls over to GG. I know GG Is available in China, though not 100% sure about Macau and Taiwan, but that's a large player pool right there if it's even China only.

And yes, many people take GG Poker seriously.

An exceedingly thoughtful response thank you for posting
 
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CliffieDeuce

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Won a ticket and cashed

I won a ticket through these all in satellites and cashed $250.
 
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fundiver199

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GG Poker actually offer players a simple build in HUD, so its not really a "HUD-free site". Also HUDs are not really new, and what "old school players" are mainly missing out on is all the work with solvers and GTO strategy, which people have been doing lately. As others have already said, some manage to stay competitive over decades, because they continue to work on their game. They dont play the same way today, as they did 10 or 15 years ago.
 
Vallet

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I think the lack of HUD doesn't really affect old-school players. It is inside their head. I watch live broadcasts of Daniel Negreanu's games.
 
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