Poker players are suing Winamax!

[Shells]

Winamax Facing Lawsuit from Players Over Investigation Into Poker Bots

Have you ever reported a suspected 'bot'?

 

[playinggameswithu]

These bots are borderline harmless. They are essentially rocks for coding simplicity. Just fold your hand to them. Yea the room should do more but I believe they are giving it their 110%

 

[VIP_TARIFF]

I have never reported and do not know how to do it. I am also against bots.

 

[8bod8]

No, never reported one.
But playing freerolls, mainly cc frc, I don't think many bots at our tables.
Or the bots are as bad as I am. Funny detail: in my language 'bot' is a type of fish.

If you can't resist: check the top 10 of the frc leaderboards.

A bit more serious:
How to detect and prove that player 'x' likely is a bot, without getting your account blocked by the room?

 

[MattRyder]

This makes no sense. Why would they suspend the account of someone that they say played in person for them and proved that he could play extremely well? Definitely looks fishy.

In response, Winamax invited both players to play in front of their employees at the company’s offices in Paris. While Twopandas declined the offer, VictoriaMo did in fact play 400 sit-and-go tournaments at Winamax. VictoriaMo was ultimately exonerated by the poker room, while Twopandas was found guilty.
That meant that VictoriaMo was allowed to keep their winnings, while Twopandas was not. Both players had their accounts suspended, due to what Winamax called a “general climate of mistrust” surrounding them.

I've never suspected a bot because most players that I've found who win excessively do so due to BOTH good luck AND good play. It doesn't take a bot to play well when you're repeatedly dealt good starting hands and hit good flops, turns & rivers.

Any poker site that allows cheating (either deliberately or through negligence) deserves to have the book thrown at them.

 

[8bod8]

This makes no sense. Why would they suspend the account of someone that they say played in person for them and proved that he could play extremely well? Definitely looks fishy.

I've never suspected a bot because most players that I've found who win excessively do so due to BOTH good luck AND good play. Although it's a lot easier to play well when you draw good starting hands and hit good flops, turns & rivers.

Image management?
Lots of stories of players getting their account blocked are going around.
For sure some try to cheat, but the rooms prefer not to take a risk as the total number of players is not too big; collateral damage accepted.

 

[MattRyder]

Image management?
Lots of stories of players getting their account blocked are going around.
For sure some try to cheat, but the rooms prefer not to take a risk as the total number of players is not too big; collateral damage accepted.

I see your point, but doesn't that discourage good players from joining or staying with the site? Imagine if Stars were to start arbitrarily cancelling accounts of all the best players. That kind of collateral damage would be the beginning of the end for them. Word would get around very quickly.

Even bringing back a meaningful loyalty program wouldn't be enough to undo the damage.

 

[8bod8]

I see your point, but doesn't that discourage good players from joining or staying with the site? Imagine if Stars were to start arbitrarily cancelling accounts of all the best players. That kind of collateral damage would be the beginning of the end for them. Word would get around very quickly.

Even bringing back a meaningful loyalty program would be enough to undo the damage.

Fully agree, but what happened that these 2 got noticed?
If these 2 had been in a game with Ivy, Negreanu, Hellmuth, etc. probably nobody had noticed anything, as all of them are walking super brains. (maybe we could catch Ivy doing some edge-sorting).
Winamax didn't arbitrarily cancel accounts of good players, only the two that got complaints; that's acceptable.
The sad part of the story:
2 player-id's accused of being poker robots.
1 proven non-bot; or it was a realy well made humaniod.
Maybe the other one is also not a bot; I would not go to Winamax (or any other room's) office, if I get invited.

 

[Kanetuck]

The guy that was exonerated shouldn't have been cancelled. Although, it wouldn't surprise me if he was allowed to create an account with a different username as part of the deal. That, of course would be kept secret.

 

[Paya_31]

Hello, for me are well complaints against Winamax. If poker rooms want to make money, it's okay to do so, but not that way, because these types of issues makes players wary of online game.

 

[Denchik43RU]

I do not know how and where to report suspicion.

 

[Shells]

I do not know how and where to report suspicion.

I am thinking you might start with the support department for whichever site you suspect. They will give you guidance.

 

[Denchik43RU]

Thank you, I will consider

 

[VIP_TARIFF]

This makes no sense. Why would they suspend the account of someone that they say played in person for them and proved that he could play extremely well? Definitely looks fishy.

I've never suspected a bot because most players that I've found who win excessively do so due to BOTH good luck AND good play. It doesn't take a bot to play well when you're repeatedly dealt good starting hands and hit good flops, turns & rivers.

Any poker site that allows cheating (either deliberately or through negligence) deserves to have the book thrown at them.

I completely agree with you colleague, if the room allows itself to deceive its players, then you need to leave, but poker is not a game of chance, we play with people, and we have the opportunity to see all the cards on the board for a decision.

 

[Robin Moura]

I've never told you this is very interesting, will we know about the progress of the investigation here in the forum?

 

[Shells]

I've never told you this is very interesting, will we know about the progress of the investigation here in the forum?

I think the outcome of the investigation is in the article.

 

[Robin Moura]

I am thinking you might start with the support department for whichever site you suspect. They will give you guidance.

Yes, I really did appreciate it for the feedback.

 

[VIP_TARIFF]

Fully agree, but what happened that these 2 got noticed?
If these 2 had been in a game with Ivy, Negreanu, Hellmuth, etc. probably nobody had noticed anything, as all of them are walking super brains. (maybe we could catch Ivy doing some edge-sorting).
Winamax didn't arbitrarily cancel accounts of good players, only the two that got complaints; that's acceptable.
The sad part of the story:
2 player-id's accused of being poker robots.
1 proven non-bot; or it was a realy well made humaniod.
Maybe the other one is also not a bot; I would not go to Winamax (or any other room's) office, if I get invited.

It is difficult to prove that these accounts are bots, so it seems to me that the court will be lost.:bath:

 

[fa1920]

Well look, nor in pokerstars have total control of all the bots there are, every day they discover a new one. With this criticism, knowing that Pokerstars is the best room in the world in all aspects, imagine the problems of bots that should have the other rooms

 

[Splitpot88]

I have never ran across a bot that I know of...how can you tell?

 

[8bod8]

I have never ran across a bot that I know of...how can you tell?

+1 constructive question
Maybe the site reps can advise?
This way cc members can assist the rooms in the fight against bots.

One thing I know:
- you can ask in the chat: '<playerId>: are you a bot?'
- even if the answer is yes, it's probably not true

 

[tauri103]

hi how do you recognize or suspect a bots?

 

[jacksonz89]

Im pretty sure I come across alot of pokerbots in my time... its a real shame on this happening. come on pokersites use packet sniffers to shut down this crime.

 

[weezy1312]

most of the players who had a bad beat would claim it was to a bot , and that if the game is hard to them its not because other players actually work on their game and putting some hard work on it , its because they are bots ^^ . i dont see how so many people can claim being victims to playing vs a bot , if you noticed the bot reported on winamax was at the highest levels it means that the other players did notice the suspucious behavior while working on their game and seeing where they did go wrong and started to analyse that suspected person behavior meticulously to come with that statement. i highly doubt most of the people are doing the same , they probably frustrated because of a bad beat and who doesnt want to blame a bot )

 

[Meepomancer1122]

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that VictoriaMo still got his/her account suspended after proving he/she was legit... I would never ever play on Winamax again