HR 2267

R

rozzz5

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It's about time that something like this passes but there is still a long way to go before it hits Obama's desk.
 
dmorris68

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A poker site could not violate the UIGEA because it only affected banks and other financial institutions.
True, but there are other laws that have been used to outlaw internet gambling in the US from the perspective of the site operator (not the player). This is why all the sites left US territories and also why arrest warrants were issued for executives like those at bodog -- I don't recall if was Calvin Ayre or not, but I remember there being a couple of execs arrested in US airports who were just flying through. For a long time there were warrants for Ayre which is why he basically moved out of the US and seldom if ever returned here.

Bachus or one of the anti-poker representatives tried to introduce a clause that would permanently ban all current poker sites that were deemed to operate around US laws, but it was shot down and withdrawn. It's pretty certain that PS and FT will not be blacklisted.
 
buckster436

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The Almighty Dollar, just like The One Ring, is a powerful and corrupting force.
true,, lol, im going to FT to win some all mighty dollars, 1pm. 10K game,:cool: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,buck:)
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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I think it needs to go to another vote before it get put to the preidents hands
 
LarkMarlow

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If your representive was on the committee and voted yes, remember to contact him or her and say thanks! I've talked to several of the reps in my area and they are so appreciative of positive feedback because all they usually get is complaints.

Way to go Congressman Steve Driehaus of OH District 1!!!
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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If your representive was on the committee and voted yes, remember to contact him or her and say thanks! I've talked to several of the reps in my area and they are so appreciative of positive feedback because all they usually get is complaints.

Way to go Congressman Steve Driehaus of OH District 1!!!

I got a phone call from my rep. mike castle after sending him a email to push for it, and we end up talking for like ahour about the pro and cons of it.
 
Debi

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I can't get excited about this at all. Right now I can play poker online. I fear when all of this gets sorted out I will not be able to play at all.

Leaving it up to the individual states will hurt a lot of us. I see no way that Georgia would allow it here. Both of our reps voted no and the only form of gambling allowed here is lottery tickets.

Sorry - but I am very concerned.
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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checkmark.gif
</IMG>IntroducedMay 6, 2009
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</IMG>Referred to CommitteeView Committee Assignments
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</IMG>
Reported by CommitteeJul 29, 2010
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</IMG>House Vote...
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</IMG>Senate Vote...
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</IMG>Signed by President...

Only three steps to go
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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I can't get excited about this at all. Right now I can play poker online. I fear when all of this gets sorted out I will not be able to play at all.

Leaving it up to the individual states will hurt a lot of us. I see no way that Georgia would allow it here. Both of our reps voted no and the only form of gambling allowed here is lottery tickets.

Sorry - but I am very concerned.


I don't see them not passing this, due to that the fact that this could help generate more money for the states when they start taxing it, It also a safe guard for under age playing. but the fight still long but it going to happen :hello:
 
Debi

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I don't see them not passing this, due to that the fact that this could help generate more money for the states when they start taxing it, It also a safe guard for under age playing. but the fight still long but it going to happen :hello:

You don't live in the holier than thou bible belt. The lottery supports our Hope scholarship program among other things - and it is struggling. The politicians here are too stupid and self righteous to see this would be a major way of earning more money to keep the program going. All they see is the word gambling and to them that is a sin.

If there is one bleeding state that said no it would be Georgia.
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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You don't live in the holier than thou bible belt. The lottery supports our Hope scholarship program among other things - and it is struggling. The politicians here are too stupid and self righteous to see this would be a major way of earning more money to keep the program going. All they see is the word gambling and to them that is a sin.

If there is one bleeding state that said no it would be Georgia.


hey hey hey now my family from Georgia:hello: , but only time can tell where this is going to go. I know that your saying but in todays world, anything is possable
 
iamhukleberry

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so since the bill passed will the u.s be able to play at the sites we werent aloud to like party poker and those others..??
 
dmorris68

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so since the bill passed will the u.s be able to play at the sites we werent aloud to like party poker and those others..??
No, not yet. It isn't law yet, and assuming it becomes law only sites that sign on to the regulations will be approved. Other sites will likely be banned.
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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so since the bill passed will the u.s be able to play at the sites we werent aloud to like party poker and those others..??

house needs to vote on it, then
Senate need to vote on it,then
then it get to the president hands to be sign in to law or vito.

It still along way to go but the major stuff is done.:coffee:
 
lilybo

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I received this e-mail today. Funniest thing about it is that Michigan has gambling splattered all over my state. Just about every bar, store, gas station, and restaurant has some type of Michigan gambling in it. Our state is soooo financially strapped that they found it necessary to add fancy lighted instant ticket display cases in some places, self serve ticket machines, and about every store and gas station has what I can describe to be a 19inch computer screen advertising their product.



Letterheadbanner.jpg

Dear Ms. Boyea:
Thank you for informing me of your support for legalizing financial transactions through internet gambling websites. Your thoughts on this important matter are most welcome and appreciated.

As you know, Internet gambling is a 24-hour a day activity, which oftentimes undercuts a player's perception of the value of cash leading to addiction, severe debt, and illegal activity. And, because age verification is difficult to measure online, Internet gambling creates a major risk for minors who may not understand the seriousness behind the transfer of electronic funds. Still, Internet gambling is more than a social problem; it is a national security concern as well. According to the Department of Justice, Internet gambling not only damages communities, but also is used to launder money. In 2006, Congress passed the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) under title VIII of the SAFE Port Act (P.L. 109-347), which prohibits gambling businesses from accepting checks, credit cards charges, electronic transfers, and similar payments in connection with illegal Internet gambling.

To provide for the licensing of internet gambling activities, on May 6, 2009, Representative Barney Frank (MA) re-introduced H.R. 2267, the Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act. If enacted, this legislation would allow the Director of the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FINCEN) to adopt a framework for legal internet gambling. Specifically, FINCEN would be authorized to license online gambling sites annually and require the sites to use age identification technologies and pay the appropriate licensing fees, which would cover the cost of monitoring online gambling sites. Importantly, online gambling sites which are not licensed by FINCEN would be considered illegal and would be subject to the penalties incurred by the Internet Gambling Prohibition Enforcement Act. I opposed this legislation because it would drain resources from our Michigan during a difficult economic time; the technology which would be used to deter young people from gambling has not been proven to work; and the Federal Bureau of Investigation has expressed concerns about internet poker sites being used as a conduit for money laundering. On July 28, 2010, despite my opposition the House Financial Services Committee passed this legislation by a bi-partisan vote of 41-22. Presently, H.R. 2267 awaits action on the House Floor.

Rest assured, your thoughts on this important issue will be remembered during the 111th Congress. Again, thank you for all you do for our community and our country. Should you have any further comments or questions on this or any other issue, please contact me at the Livonia or Milford district, or Washington, D.C. office.

I work for you


Sincerely,
ThadBlueSig.jpg

Thaddeus G. McCotter
Member of Congress

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Legalization of Online Gaming in U.S.

There is a bill pending in a House of Representatives committee that would legalize online gambling in the U.S. However, one provision apparently says that online gaming sites currently operating in the U.S. could not get a license, because they are operating illegally right now. The result could be that pokerstars and FullTilt could not get licensed. Very interesting.

"Some online gambling experts say the bill’s current wording will make it difficult, if not impossible, for the two largest gambling websites, pokerstars.com and FullTilt.com, to obtain federal licenses — effectively clearing the playing field for bricks-and-mortar casino companies such as Harrah’s Entertainment, which owns the World Series of Poker franchise."

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/aug/02/state-gamers-see-potential-flush-online/
 
salim271

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I received this e-mail today. Funniest thing about it is that Michigan has gambling splattered all over my state. Just about every bar, store, gas station, and restaurant has some type of Michigan gambling in it. Our state is soooo financially strapped that they found it necessary to add fancy lighted instant ticket display cases in some places, self serve ticket machines, and about every store and gas station has what I can describe to be a 19inch computer screen advertising their product.

Damn it! If Michigan congressmen voted it down, I might not be able to play either if its left up to the state. I despise government, our president is an admitted small stakes cash game poker player, as are many senators and house representatives... LET US PLAY. :(

I suppose I can understand the money laudering worry... but seriously, FTP and PS are so big right now legalized or not, money laudering is probably happening. However, given the stats that FTP and PS keep on players to prevent collusion, it wouldn't be too hard or too much trouble to cooperate with the government and catch money lauderers in the act.
 
dmorris68

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I'm not worrying too much at this point what states might do to restrict it further than it already is, because if they wanted to they could have already done so. There are several states that already specifically outlaw internet gambling, but Georgia & Michigan do not.

Those that do specifically outlaw internet gambling include Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada (ha! should be obvious why), Oregon, South Dakota, Washington, and Wisconsin. This data is from 2007 so not sure what might have changed since then, but the point being that some states have taken it upon themselves to ban internet gambling already. Others, like my state (Georgia), have not. I'm going to remain optimistic that it won't. It can't hurt. :p

Tennessee is just as conservative as Georgia when it comes to gambling, but I'm hoping that between the two at least one of them will get on board with it. Tennessee is only 20 minutes from me, so I could settle for that if necessary. ;)

It just occurred to me that Nevada banning of online gambling is particularly humorous, consider how many pros live in Vegas and pretty openly play online.

EDIT: Actually, when you drill into the individual states on that site, all the ones I tried said they were current as of Jan 1, 2010, so they do appear up-to-date.
 
dmorris68

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There is another thread, and hopefully this will be merged, but I wanted to address the specific article the OP linked to.

First though, this bill is not pending in committee. It was voted on and passed committee last week. It now goes before the full House and Senate for votes, and then to Obama to sign into law. Quite a ways to go yet.

Second, I question a lot of the information written in this article. Namely:
  • It is a Vegas publication with an apparent Nevada slant. Nevada is quite hostile to internet gaming already, being one of the handful of states that already specifically outlaw it. I think this is further indicated by the quote:

    “Clearly it’s in the best interest of Nevada casinos to limit those who can get licenses to those not currently in the (online) industry because they have had a large head start,” Las Vegas gaming attorney Tony Cabot said.
  • The article states "The federal government considers all forms of Internet gambling illegal, however." As a blanket statement, that is completely bogus and untrue, but it's a common misconception. Apparently even among the "gambling educated." The Wire Act made it illegal for gambling operators, and specifically, those who run sports books (not poker), to operate within the USA. It does not mention nor address players. Even the UIGEA only applies to banks and other financial institutions, and then only in prohibiting deposits to gaming sites. Not withdrawals, and in fact goes on to stipulate that players must be able to withdraw. This tacit acknowledgement and protection of players belies any federal law making it illegal to actually play. Clearly the target of all US laws to date around internet gambling are aimed squarely at the operators themselves, and not at players.
  • They talk about the amendment that could essentially blacklist PokerStars and FullTilt, since they currently operate "illegally." Not sure how that's possible since they aren't US operations, but whatever. Anyway, I was following the HR2267 debate and vote via PPA's live Twitter feed. It was reported that an amendment was proposed by Bachus and Bachman (probably the most vocal anti-gambling people on the committee) to apply a "lifetime ban" on all current internet gambling sites and their employees from being licensed under the new law. About 6 minutes later, the PPA reported that the Bachus/Bachmann amendment was withdrawn:

    hr2267_1.png


    Unless there was another one added later that the PPA did not report on, I'm unaware of there being one. Also, the PPA is quoted in this very same article as saying:

    “(N)othing in the committee-passed legislation precludes lawful Internet poker-only operators whom U.S. players know and trust today from the opportunity to operate under a regulated system,” the alliance, a group for legalizing online poker, said in a statement.
Bottom line, there is a ton of FUD and misinformation floating around about internet gambling. Even among the lawmakers, authorities, and the expert gamblers themselves. It would take not only a law degree but a specialization in the gaming field to understand it all. I don't pretend to understand much, but I do read up on a lot of others who do, and when you actually read the statutes, it's at least pretty clear what they don't mention.

There is a lot of legal gray area to get through yet. It could go either way, better than it is now, or worse. But at this point it's too early to say and at least we're having some positive movement in the area. Let's not be too quick to assume the sky is falling, and let's keep the pressure on our representatives in Congress so they know how important this is.
 
SavagePenguin

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If I owned Pokerstars and that site couldn't get a license in the USA, I would soon be the owner of Pokerstars *and* Starspoker (or whatever), with the latter site operating in the USA and accepting money transfers from PS accounts.
 
dmorris68

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One other thing about Stars and Tilt...

Even if the law banned operators that had been operating illegally in the US, the Federal laws that criminalize gambling are generally accepted as not covering poker. The Wire Act, as noted above, specifically covered sports book operations. Most other anti-gambling legislation, including most at the state level, is aimed at games of chance. There is already legal precedent for poker being considered a skill game, not a chance game, so there is a very good legal standing to argue that poker-only sites like Stars and Tilt were never illegal under US law to begin with. Both of those sites certainly have deep enough pockets to pursue that legal avenue, should the US attempt to blacklist them. Plus, it all comes down to money -- the primary reason the US is pursing this now is not due to the outcries of US poker players. It's due to the potential for revenue. Stars and Tilt are far and away the two largest online poker rooms. Tens of millions of customers between them, and as I understand it the majority are US players. That's easy, guaranteed revenue once they sign on to the new regulations. Kill those sites, and you kill immediate and substantial revenue while US players trickle onto other, smaller sites. It just doesn't make fiduciary sense to kill the goose that has been laying their golden eggs for awhile now.

OTOH, sites like SportsBook (bet they're hating choosing that name about now) and Bodog, that spread other casino games as well as sports betting, will find themselves having a very hard time should there actually be a ban on prior illegal operators. However I expect most of the smaller sites will, as SP notes above, find a way around the issue by some crafty maneuver like forming a new operation.
 
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Am I the only one who doesnt mind the status quo?

Obviously I dont want the regulations to be any more strict, but I also dont want the government getting involved and taxing me up the wazoo on my poker winnings, at a much higher rate than normal income.
 
CAMurray

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Have no fear gentlemen, if there is any group on the planet capable of drafting regulation/legislation to not only favor the massive gaming lobby, partially to whom they owe their elections, but the snakes themselves, it"s our very own Legislative Branch of Government.

Have faith in the system and their consistent ability to take care of their own.

Simply put, if you don’t think the new laws will heavily protect the existing US gaming industry until they can get operational in a dominating way on line, I have some property just west of California I’d like to talk to you about.
:rolleyes:
 
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