Germany - new gambling regulation

[wrzlbrnft]

pokerstars banned playmoney games due to the new German regulations. On 888poker it is still possible with a German account. ???
Taxfree or not, the situation is rather unclear. Ask 2 lawyers und you get 3 different statements...

 

[bapfel]

Bad news - Incredible taxes planned will kill poker in Germany?

Hi all,

I have bad news, the "Bundesrat" had started to make a law to make taxes on online poker in germany. They want to demand 5.3 percent taxes on every money that is paid as stake, what would be the death of all cash games and make poker unprofitable, I guess in the rooms also as for the players.

It is going now to the "Bundestag", when they agree it is the new reality in a few months.

Did you already read about that?

Here a link:
https://www.pokerfirma.com/news/deutschland-killt-die-pokersteuer-online-poker/703618
and here the document:
https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/834332-834332

 

[inox73]

it is catastrophe what the f***ing goverment wants
every luckgame is direct with 50000€ luckplaylicense
connected

 

[dgroes]

please give at least the (Verordnung) regulation number. Thank you

 

[bapfel]

please give at least the (Verordnung) regulation number. Thank you

it is:
Drucksache 19/28400
https://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/19/284/1928400.pdf

 

[budweiser74777]

this is cruel ((((very cruel

 

[whiskers77]

It becomes more and more crazy here in Germany.
I wonder, if taxes will be taken from the buy-ins, shall we still need to pay taxes from our winnings? Isn't it somehow double taxation?

 

[whiskers77]

Btw. I just found a good report about online game winnings and taxes here in Germany. It shows at which level income taxes need to be paid and how much. Maybe you are interested about this:
https://www.lohnsteuer-kompakt.de/steuerwissen/wann-muessen-online-casino-gewinne-versteuert-werden/

 

[bapfel]

Write to your MPs / I got feedback

I wrote to two members of "Deutsche Bundestag" and complained about the planned tax rules and also to one of the "Bayerischer Landtag".

I argued that Poker in Germany will go back to grey markets as this tax on every stack is to high as the money brought in is a closed circle. Another topic is the efforts the poker rooms will have together with other issues with the GlStV. It is possible that they will close in Germany, one admin of unibet commented in this way...

Well, two of them already answered - one wrote the Bavarian minister and said my argumentation was comprehensible.

The other one will push my email to further consultations before in the next few weeks the new text is voted..

So - I have some hope that things are not final, yet.
The best would be: Write your MP / representative!

In September the next elections will be.. lot of the politicians of your constituencys will be candidates again..so feed them with your thoughts / complains about that.

 

[acenit]

Their needs to be legislation to control and be fair, but only to a certain extent. All comes down to taxes

 

[capo1014]

Horrible

Germany just wants a piece of the action as in money. Greed since the beginning of time. Control of your money that has already been taxed and will be again when you win it is never ending cycle. Capo1014

 

[armoko]

Btw. I just found a good report about online game winnings and taxes here in Germany. It shows at which level income taxes need to be paid and how much. Maybe you are interested about this:
https://www.lohnsteuer-kompakt.de/steuerwissen/wann-muessen-online-casino-gewinne-versteuert-werden/

Thanks for the link. I read a lot of articles before and still had a lot of unanswered questions but this one was clear and really good explained.

 

[bapfel]

changes published by pokerstars

Pokerstars yesterday sent an email with new rules because of the German taxes, starting in July..

they don`t directly reduce or buyin with the new German tax, in cash games they calculate a higher rake for German players... some sit&gos / Head ups are not longer available. The player pools will stay together.
I cannot read how it would influence the MTTs.
They affirm, that they want to stay attractive also for the German market... Hopefully!

Read Here:

"Due to the introduction of a new tax for online poker in Germany, we had to make some changes to the range of games for players residing in Germany.

• The highest stakes available will be:
  • No Limit Hold'em, Pot Limit Omaha and other NL / PL games: $ 1 / $ 2
  • 6+ Hold'em: $ 2 / $ 2
  • Tempest: 1$/ $2,50/ $5
  • Fixed limit games: $ 3 / $ 6
• The rake for most NL and PL cash games increases by approx. 25% and for FL cash games by approx. 35%.
• For Spin & Go's, the highest stake will be $ 50.
• Note: Players in Germany still play in the same universal player pool."

 

[Shells]

Pokerstars yesterday sent an email with new rules because of the German taxes, starting in July..

they don`t directly reduce or buyin with the new German tax, in cash games they calculate a higher rake for German players... some sit&gos / Head ups are not longer available. The player pools will stay together.
I cannot read how it would influence the MTTs.
They affirm, that they want to stay attractive also for the German market... Hopefully!

Read Here:

"Due to the introduction of a new tax for online poker in Germany, we had to make some changes to the range of games for players residing in Germany.

• The highest stakes available will be:
  • No Limit Hold'em, Pot Limit Omaha and other NL / PL games: $ 1 / $ 2
  • 6+ Hold'em: $ 2 / $ 2
  • Tempest: 1$/ $2,50/ $5
  • Fixed limit games: $ 3 / $ 6
• The rake for most NL and PL cash games increases by approx. 25% and for FL cash games by approx. 35%.
• For Spin & Go's, the highest stake will be $ 50.
• Note: Players in Germany still play in the same universal player pool."

I think the CC article linked below talks about this?

Germany’s Bundestag Approves Controversial 5.3% Online Poker Rollover Tax

 

[bugiardops]

All regulation is bad for the consumer. It's more money paid in taxes and the benefits to my way of thinking don't pay.

 

[tiefgang23]

i heard that we in germany can only play at one site at the same time, does someone know more about it? would like to play at least on 2 softwares when i do a session....

 

[bapfel]

I think the CC article linked below talks about this?

Germany’s Bundestag Approves Controversial 5.3% Online Poker Rollover Tax

Thanks for the article, good summary of the problems / discussion.
I am so angry with our government. They use the pretext to reduce gambling addiction to cash in the players.

 

[whiskers77]

Gosh, it is really another slap.
I got this email as well and it is not only about buy-ins, also about deposit/withdraw options:

There are several changes happening on July 1 that we want you to be aware of.

These are:

• There will be a new ‘www.pokerstars.de’ website specifically for players in Germany
• Payment verification is required pre deposit and must be obtained for each and every new deposit method
• Card sharing is no longer available
• Anonymous deposit methods are no longer available (Exempt if a single transaction does not exceed $25 or $100 cumulatively in the same calendar month)
• Payment verification must take place at withdrawal also if not already verified at deposit stage
• Ecopayz, GiroPay, Trustly and Rapid Transfer payment methods will be removed from June 28
• We recommend the use of MyPaysafecard, Sofort or any other available method to deposit and/or withdraw

Due to a new tax being applied to online poker in Germany, we have had to make several changes to the game offering available to players based in Germany:

• The highest stakes available will be as follows:
  • No Limit Hold’em, Pot Limit Omaha and other NL/PL games: $1/$2
  • 6+ Hold’em: $2/$2
  • Tempest: $1/$2.50/$5
  • Fixed Limit Games: $3/$6
• An increase in cash game rake by approximately 25% in most NL and PL games, and by approximately 35% in FL games
• The highest stake Spin & Go will now be $50
• Note: Players in Germany will still be in the shared liquidity pool

Plus, there’s a change in how players in Germany earn reward points – this is because players will be earning approximately 20% more reward points than they were previously.

From mid-July, players will earn 45 reward points for every USD $1 paid in fees for scheduled tournaments, and 80 reward points for every USD $1 paid in rake in Zoom or cash games or other tournament fees (104 reward points for every £1, 80 points for every CAD $1, and 88 points for every €1).

Read our blog post here for the full details. Additionally, more information about all this can be found in our Help Centre here.

 

[Uranus]

Its sad that the live casinos are allowed to do the legislation for an entire country, and for milions of people who did not want to play in a live Casino anyway, with or without internet gambling.

If citizens will be quiet you could finally end up like americans, with a bunch of bad restrictions.

 

[toots babos]

Gosh, it is really another slap.
I got this email as well and it is not only about buy-ins, also about deposit/withdraw options:

There are several changes happening on July 1 that we want you to be aware of.

These are:

• There will be a new ‘www.pokerstars.de’ website specifically for players in Germany
• Payment verification is required pre deposit and must be obtained for each and every new deposit method
• Card sharing is no longer available
• Anonymous deposit methods are no longer available (Exempt if a single transaction does not exceed $25 or $100 cumulatively in the same calendar month)
• Payment verification must take place at withdrawal also if not already verified at deposit stage
• Ecopayz, GiroPay, Trustly and Rapid Transfer payment methods will be removed from June 28
• We recommend the use of MyPaysafecard, Sofort or any other available method to deposit and/or withdraw

Due to a new tax being applied to online poker in Germany, we have had to make several changes to the game offering available to players based in Germany:

• The highest stakes available will be as follows:
  • No Limit Hold’em, Pot Limit Omaha and other NL/PL games: $1/$2
  • 6+ Hold’em: $2/$2
  • Tempest: $1/$2.50/$5
  • Fixed Limit Games: $3/$6
• An increase in cash game rake by approximately 25% in most NL and PL games, and by approximately 35% in FL games
• The highest stake Spin & Go will now be $50
• Note: Players in Germany will still be in the shared liquidity pool

Plus, there’s a change in how players in Germany earn reward points – this is because players will be earning approximately 20% more reward points than they were previously.

From mid-July, players will earn 45 reward points for every USD $1 paid in fees for scheduled tournaments, and 80 reward points for every USD $1 paid in rake in Zoom or cash games or other tournament fees (104 reward points for every £1, 80 points for every CAD $1, and 88 points for every €1).

Read our blog post here for the full details. Additionally, more information about all this can be found in our Help Centre here.

Any information on how a cash game pot can get increased take by 25% when playing against players from other countries?

 

[wrzlbrnft]

Any information on how a cash game pot can get increased take by 25% when playing against players from other countries?

The rake will be the same but there will be an additional rake only for the German players
https://www.pokerstars.com/de/news/anderungen-fur-spieler-in-deutschland

 

[Daniel72]

It could be worse, I am glad we still can play on PokerStars
MTTs seem to be not affected (so far)
maybe Stars pays the 5% of mtt buy ins from its own pocket

 

[mclay]

Hey guys,

What do you think about the new gambling regulation in Germany, hitting in today?

I am very interested in your opinion. Luckily it does not really affect poker.

Greetings. Have a great morning.

You have the wrong information. This law has a very strong effect on poker, many poker rooms are leaving Germany, and Pokerstars have increased the rake for German players and limited them by limits. I think this is a violation of human rights, and I think that the German players need to unite and fight for their rights.

 

[Ravens UC]

Player's need to stand and unite, this will be the start for many countries if we don't band together and take a stand now. US has had a long fight just to get back to where they are at and I think we can all take a lesson from their situation.

 

[Shells]

More unsettling news for online poker players in Germany.

More Sites Withdraw Services From German Online Poker Market