The code for any poker site’s RNG has remained top secret, leading many to wonder whether the cards are really dealt in a random fashion. CoinPoker, a cryptocurrency-based online poker site, is releasing the source code for the random number generator so you can see for yourself. Have you ever doubted the RNG on any online poker site?

Is Online Poker Really Random? Crypto Site Opens Source Code, Offers Reward to Test Shuffling RNG

Way to go CoinPoker! Now,,,,,who will follow suit?

Originally Posted by terryk

Way to go CoinPoker! Now,,,,,who will follow suit?

Now, that should be interesting...right?!

Can't wait to see proof that this is actually CoinPoker's RNG and not an alternate RNG. I think RNG dealing of cards is random, but dealing of outcomes is not (i.e. selection of the order of winning players is pre-determined). This is probably the simplest rig that is also sufficiently concealed that it will not be detected easily. In essence if players can figure out pre-flop who wins versus who for the upcoming board, then they have the advantage for betting purposes.

Originally Posted by puzzlefish

Can't wait to see proof that this is actually CoinPoker's RNG and not an alternate RNG. I think RNG dealing of cards is random, but dealing of outcomes is not (i.e. selection of the order of winning players is pre-determined). This is probably the simplest rig that is also sufficiently concealed that it will not be detected easily. In essence if players can figure out pre-flop who wins versus who for the upcoming board, then they have the advantage for betting purposes.

How can they prove that the RNG they make public is the one that they use?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by puzzlefish

Can't wait to see proof that this is actually CoinPoker's RNG and not an alternate RNG. I think RNG dealing of cards is random, but dealing of outcomes is not (i.e. selection of the order of winning players is pre-determined). This is probably the simplest rig that is also sufficiently concealed that it will not be detected easily. In essence if players can figure out pre-flop who wins versus who for the upcoming board, then they have the advantage for betting purposes.

How can you figure something like that out? You win some and others win some too. Noone can continuously win everything.

Here is a video from Pokerstars from a few years a back explaining their system.


Interesting watch if you liked the article linked above. They mention in it just like the article that a fully computerized system cannot produce a truly random number.


https://www.pokerstars.com/en/tv/cha...pisode-3.shtml

Originally Posted by joeisi

Here is a video from Pokerstars from a few years a back explaining their system.


Interesting watch if you liked the article linked above. They mention in it just like the article that a fully computerized system cannot produce a truly random number.


https://www.pokerstars.com/en/tv/channels/2014/10/inside-pokerstars---episode-3.shtml

This is likely fake.

Originally Posted by Joco413

How can you figure something like that out? You win some and others win some too. Noone can continuously win everything.

It's hard to explain. I am doing my best right now and am getting close with 888. Stars is similar. It's not a matter of winning some and others winning some. It is about the timing - when someone wins something against someone else. I am finding a lot of hints and patterns from previous hands that are correctly predicting when other players win or lose against myself and against other players. It's like poker because the end result is that the winner has the best hand.. but the difference is that certain players who notice the patterns can exploit them to optimize betting in certain situations only. It is not a situation where one person can always win, but in the right circumstances they can get enough information about other players to make profitable plays next regardless of what hands they are dealt, because they know whether they will win or lose against others.

Originally Posted by puzzlefish

Can't wait to see proof that this is actually CoinPoker's RNG and not an alternate RNG. I think RNG dealing of cards is random, but dealing of outcomes is not (i.e. selection of the order of winning players is pre-determined). This is probably the simplest rig that is also sufficiently concealed that it will not be detected easily. In essence if players can figure out pre-flop who wins versus who for the upcoming board, then they have the advantage for betting purposes.

After the flop, the "site" knows who has what cards and which player(s) is playing the hand and CERTAINLY knows what cards are "remaining", so I agree with the statement that the "order" and such of the winners can CERTAINLY be manipulated...easy peasy for a decent programmer, right?
"a site is only as good as the people who PRE program it"
--sidenotch--

Originally Posted by joeisi

Here is a video from Pokerstars from a few years a back explaining their system.


Interesting watch if you liked the article linked above. They mention in it just like the article that a fully computerized system cannot produce a truly random number.


https://www.pokerstars.com/en/tv/channels/2014/10/inside-pokerstars---episode-3.shtml

Exactly my point I have been trying to state concerning the "randomness" of a PRE PROGRAMMED site! If it's "pre" programmed, then how can it possibly be "random"? Oh, it CAN'T be! Happy Holidays and keep on playin' those aces online...there's 10 per deck>>>(joking, so please, people out there, don't ATTACK me for that remark)

Originally Posted by Poker_Mike

How can they prove that the RNG they make public is the one that they use?

Thanks.

That's a good question. Maybe someone with programming knowledge could suggest a way. I imagine there should be some kind of checksum value for the RNG that can be compared to what is running live on their servers?

I think by chance. Otherwise, lost the meaning of the game ..

really good question

CoinPoker is going to collapse soon. A lot of poker conspiracy theorist ITT

Originally Posted by terryk

Way to go CoinPoker! Now,,,,,who will follow suit?

Why no ? CoinPoker good poker project !CardsChat admins can make some freerolls for CoinPoker players!

That's what all poker sites must do!
I have no answer to my question for years...

- In live poker game the dealer shuffles cards and the sequence of the cards remains in the same order after shuffling process is over, until next shuffling process starts.

BUT

- What happens in online poker shuffling process?
a) The shuffling process is over at start of the hand and cards are located in some sequence for flop-turn-river?
or
b) The shuffling process continues for turn and river cards?

In both cases A) or B) more questions rise up.

Originally Posted by playinggameswithu

CoinPoker is going to collapse soon. A lot of poker conspiracy theorist ITT

may be yes, and may be no!

i think that every poker room must have RNG with open code

coinpoker is setting the bar

this explains from PokerStars
https://www.pokerstars.com/en/tv/channels/2014/10/inside-pokerstars---episode-3.shtml

I think it's fairly unlikely larger sites actually blatantly rigging microstakes card draws to induce action or to give certain people the win.

With that said it's also very hard to make something truly random and I would be interested in how different sites look to resolve this issue.

There is no rigging of one stake level and not another. It all works the same way on all levels.

Originally Posted by shells_bells_53

The code for any poker site’s RNG has remained top secret, leading many to wonder whether the cards are really dealt in a random fashion. CoinPoker, a cryptocurrency-based online poker site, is releasing the source code for the random number generator so you can see for yourself. Have you ever doubted the RNG on any online poker site?

Is Online Poker Really Random? Crypto Site Opens Source Code, Offers Reward to Test Shuffling RNG

When i started playing online poker that was my main question. A friend of mine told me that cards are always mixed because if some cheating was taking place in the site thay could close it permanently so i guess there is some online security.. isnt it?

A guy that is running a local tournament where I live said that about 10 years ago he was playing on stars (I think) and he was up early in the morning around 3-4am to feed the baby so he'd get online and do the grind multi-task when all the russians got on (after a few drinks maybe?), anyway he said after he got up about 4k that at times the river card would pause and wait a an unnatural amount of time (compared to all the previous run outs) and then their 1-2-3-4 outer was hit. I'm not sure of the frequency but he said he experienced a distinct change, particularly in the cards lagging as before they hadn't. Conspiracy?

By law these companies should have to have an open source code and a check every week to see if they're maintaining it, even a portal access (security?) to see if it's still the same code.

On the topic of it being impossible to have a truly 'random deck' experience coded into something, how does a RNG work or /roll in a program?

Originally Posted by joeisi

Here is a video from Pokerstars from a few years a back explaining their system.


Interesting watch if you liked the article linked above. They mention in it just like the article that a fully computerized system cannot produce a truly random number.


https://www.pokerstars.com/en/tv/channels/2014/10/inside-pokerstars---episode-3.shtml

Originally Posted by Jilty

A guy that is running a local tournament where I live said that about 10 years ago he was playing on stars (I think) and he was up early in the morning around 3-4am to feed the baby so he'd get online and do the grind multi-task when all the russians got on (after a few drinks maybe?), anyway he said after he got up about 4k that at times the river card would pause and wait a an unnatural amount of time (compared to all the previous run outs) and then their 1-2-3-4 outer was hit. I'm not sure of the frequency but he said he experienced a distinct change, particularly in the cards lagging as before they hadn't. Conspiracy?

By law these companies should have to have an open source code and a check every week to see if they're maintaining it, even a portal access (security?) to see if it's still the same code.

On the topic of it being impossible to have a truly 'random deck' experience coded into something, how does a RNG work or /roll in a program?

Take a look at the video included in Joeisi's post. PokerStars has a brief explanation as to how their RNG works.

What steps has Stars ever taken to demonstrate that the RNG they are describing is the one that is online? I think they claimed to have at least two available.

so are they basically saying that all the other sites on that platform is under the same shuffle? Or that all sites use the same system or method of shuffling?

I think that poker sites simply do not make sense to deceive their customers, moreover, they are primarily interested in the honest game since they get their percentage, regardless of whether you won or lost !!!

This is a tough one and even though they say they are random are they actually every one's system is different but if it gives me a winning hand I ain't complaining lol

I also think that the RNG "is very much a tricky subject." After all, it's no secret that tournaments on poker stars go for a certain time, i.e. the time of the tournament is limited and therefore large stacks, often on garbage, knock out small stacks with stronger cards and everyone sees both "moving" and "badbits", etc. And this phenomenon is not a single - this is a system that I think is pre-laid in the RNG!

what about that site that just offered a $$$prize to anyone who could prove their card shuffling algorithm wasn't completely random?

Random Number Generators are made from equations with large prime numbers that span the whole number you divide by. Span means all numbers can be hit. You need surveillance to add an interrupt where human error is added. This is done by surveillance choosing a number from the random number generator but not associating it with a card. Then you deal normally. Heres the problem. People can know a passcode to by pass the random number generator and deal your self good hole cards. This can look even more better with the help of software like Jivago. Deal these cards to me they are do. Don't think it happens but sometimes you wonder because the situations always seems one sided for you or against you. Maybe they see your cards like you see your cards. I don't know but I do know they play those cards and seem like they always get the positive situation. situations should be reversed to if they play shady hole cards. To The Rake.

Originally Posted by shells_bells_53

Now, that should be interesting...right?!

We play Lotto! Think for yourself! if a live tournament of 5,000 players takes about 3-5 days maybe more! and our tournament takes 8-9 hours !!! that says it all !!! it's all lotto tune !!!

Originally Posted by shells_bells_53

The code for any poker site’s RNG has remained top secret, leading many to wonder whether the cards are really dealt in a random fashion. CoinPoker, a cryptocurrency-based online poker site, is releasing the source code for the random number generator so you can see for yourself. Have you ever doubted the RNG on any online poker site?

Is Online Poker Really Random? Crypto Site Opens Source Code, Offers Reward to Test Shuffling RNG

I really, really hope that an RNG is truly that, however, I cannot believe how many paint pocket pairs I lose to ace rag. Happens too many times to be random. I know, I know bad beats happen. I can accept that and do, but it happens way too frequently in my opinion. Also happens way too frequently with 2 and 3 outers,

Its RNG, its pretty easy to figure out how it works, there is no rigged things going on if you play on any of the most popular/safest sites, its all random just like if you played live in a casino.

Originally Posted by Elty257

Its RNG, its pretty easy to figure out how it works, there is no rigged things going on if you play on any of the most popular/safest sites, its all random just like if you played live in a casino.

Hope so, I play at Blackchip and from time to time I feel they change their RNG system. I swear I can detect when they change. and I have seen other posts with the same feelings.
Just my opinion.

Are the cards dealt from the those remaining in a 52 card pack as it would be in a home game.
If not then poker maths becomes irrelevant to a large extent. You can't say so many cards have been dealt, therefore this number of cards remain to make a hand. It has become a 52 card new pack.
Does the RNG take out those made available to the table pre-flop and only random generate those remaining cards for future streets?

I heard people say its designed for action to over the years.

Originally Posted by shells_bells_53

The code for any poker site’s RNG has remained top secret, leading many to wonder whether the cards are really dealt in a random fashion. CoinPoker, a cryptocurrency-based online poker site, is releasing the source code for the random number generator so you can see for yourself. Have you ever doubted the RNG on any online poker site?

Is Online Poker Really Random? Crypto Site Opens Source Code, Offers Reward to Test Shuffling RNG

Being a liberal arts student we deal with statistical packages (SPSS) in research and require a RNG (random number generator) to generate pure random numbers on occasion, most random numbers used in computer programs are pseudo-random, which means they are generated in a predictable fashion using a mathematical formula, algorithms

It is difficult to get a computer to do something by chance. A computer follows its instructions blindly and is therefore completely predictable.

This is actually usually just fine. However to be 100% non-predictable some sort of base needs to be established that can not be duplicated or predicted.
The one we used was from the atomic clock and 10,000th of a second.. so in simple terms when i want a random number i click and at that 10,000th of a second, the computer uses that point as the base and starts it calculation.. no one could never hit that exact time to predict the outcome

Some other RNGs use white noise, or others the decay of radioactive material. It's all a fascinating area, specially valuable to the military & intelligence agencies for making secret unbreakable codes.

I looked into PokerStars RNG and spoke to their games integrity people, they very happy help and explain things... I have complete faith it's an honest and random system used to shuffle & deal them devil cards

Originally Posted by sidenotch

Exactly my point I have been trying to state concerning the "randomness" of a PRE PROGRAMMED site! If it's "pre" programmed, then how can it possibly be "random"? Oh, it CAN'T be! Happy Holidays and keep on playin' those aces online...there's 10 per deck>>>(joking, so please, people out there, don't ATTACK me for that remark)

I thought OMG here we go again, another fish who thinks the poker sites use more than a 6 Ace deck.

The biggest thing about this subject is you can not take into account for the players on what cards they play. If though like Pacman you can memorize what cards will come by in a certain rotation, you can know what card is next.
It would make sense when you see someone not play a lot of hands and then play really bad cards out of position and say beat a full house with a str flush using only their 3. lol

Originally Posted by millya5

We play Lotto! Think for yourself! if a live tournament of 5,000 players takes about 3-5 days maybe more! and our tournament takes 8-9 hours !!! that says it all !!! it's all lotto tune !!!

It feels exactly how you described it. Usually in the normal online tournament the levels last less than live tournaments, Sometimes it feels that cards are dealt exactly to get action.

There's no such thing as a true RANDOM number generator, as they all have to be seeded in some manner.

The difficulty, from a coding perspective, is not how to create a shuffle that significantly increases the action and thereby the rake (that's real easy), but instead to do so in a manner that creates the illusion of true randomness and fairness.

Well, after looking and reading, i won't be playing on CoinPoker anytime soon.
Theory is sound, and code looks good, but given enough time it will be cracked. When it is cracked, whoever does it will never disclose the crack and will use the information for personal gain.
Seriously, 3,000$ to prove it can be cracked?
Person who cracks it could easily make that, and ten times more before it would ever be discovered.
Sad part is, the algorithms they use is probably a industry standard, and they just boned us all.

I should sign up for Coinpoker. Just to see how random the cards are dealt.

I am still Skeptic when it comes to PokerStars or 888 Poker where I play the most I still believe that the game is rigged when we are 3 or 4 way pot and each one get a piece of the flop the one with an over pair, the straight draw ,the Flush draw and the low set get all there and the one who goes all in get's busted by the first one to call his all in and who will ship the hand and get all the chips I wonder if it's not rigged.

I always thought they used cosmic background radiation to generate a random pattern that they use to sort a deck (like the very popular online tool that generates numbers). Either that or use a combination of the player's mouse movements or something. I never doubted the RNG on popular websites, and I have close to a million hands logged that verify they are pretty much perfectly random.

hi,
In all of the live games i have played i have never seen the ammount of bad beats i have seen online on partypoker, i mean ppl literally come back from the dead with a turn and river so many times its just unreal!!

Sure as hell won't be WPN...they know they arent above board!

Originally Posted by terryk

Way to go CoinPoker! Now,,,,,who will follow suit?