Addressing Gender Equality - Women in Poker

[Shells]

The lack of female representation in poker is not a new thing. And here we are, once again, looking to find ways for women to feel more included especially when it comes to live poker play. There are steps taken to at least open the doors a little bit for women to feel comfortable as explained in the article linked below.

Even though we have discussed this topic from time to time, let us know what you think might encourage more women to at the very least attempt to play poker.

Addressing Poker’s Problem with Gender Equality​

 

[JOSEALBERTV]

I think that women definitely deserve more participation and prominence in poker, but unfortunately I think there is not much interest in that happening, at this point they are not yet given the merit or recognition they should have, there is no culture for that, since women have so many responsibilities, they must divert their attention to other things, it's not easy for them, and unfortunately I think it will take a long time for this to change significantly

 

[Nafor]

I'm a bit puzzled by this article. The impression that I got was that there definitely is some thrust to push women towards becoming live casino customers, but is that truly the way to go if our "sincere" objective is to introduce women to poker?

Having a live game as one's first contact to poker is like throwing a person in the deep end of the pool even though she doesn't know how to swim.

Online games are, in my opinion, one of the best ways to learn the ins and outs of the game at one's own pace and in the comfort and privacy of their own home. After one comes proficient in the game then the leap to live environment is not so steep anymore.

I also see very little value in the live environment. Sure, the big events have big prizes. But outside these events the decision is a no brainer. Why would I choose to spend hours with loud, verbal and smelly people when I can play in peace with all the comforts of my home?

 

[DS3]

Excellent article, but I am sure for women it feels like swimming upstream.

By the by regarding the post by Nafor above, the number of women who play online and anonymously is much higher than live according to poker sites and that speaks volumes on several fronts.

As I have given my opinion before. I am not going to cover the same ground again but I will say I think it will simply be a question of time and those invested need to be patient. It's taken decades for women to break through on numerous fronts and poker remain one of the holdouts. I think we are all agreed the number of women interested in poker will never match men (for a variety of reasons) but the fact so few play is a loss to the industry and the prize pools.

One of the more interesting ideas would be to recruit women who really fit the game (serious amateurs) and sponsor them to play for say a year in high profile tournaments with a lot of media coverage. A question of priorities. Samantha Abernathy was recently recruited by 888 and she seems to be playing tourneys and keeping a high profile. But you had years where the likes of Liv Boeree were on pokerstars books but I could never work out quite why as she seldom seemed to do anything in her ambassadors role. If some major sponsors pulled out their finger to recruit women who really wanted a crack at the professional circuit (and I mean live) then they could have a more profound influence on the women's game.

But, I'll repeat, excellent article.

 

[Shells]

I'm a bit puzzled by this article. The impression that I got was that there definitely is some thrust to push women towards becoming live casino customers, but is that truly the way to go if our "sincere" objective is to introduce women to poker?

Having a live game as one's first contact to poker is like throwing a person in the deep end of the pool even though she doesn't know how to swim.

Online games are, in my opinion, one of the best ways to learn the ins and outs of the game at one's own pace and in the comfort and privacy of their own home. After one comes proficient in the game then the leap to live environment is not so steep anymore.

I also see very little value in the live environment. Sure, the big events have big prizes. But outside these events the decision is a no brainer. Why would I choose to spend hours with loud, verbal and smelly people when I can play in peace with all the comforts of my home?

It's true that ANYONE should have some idea how to play poker whether it is online, a home game, etc. before joining a live game. I'm thinking unless a woman is willing to jump into the deep end of the poker pool without knowing a single thing, I'm pretty sure most who try this would be turned off. Playing poker is not much different than any other skill like competition - you still need to expose yourself to the game.

Basically, we need to find ways to help women understand poker is much like any other game but there has to be a will to learn and want to play even more because it piques their interest or they see an opportunity to actually make a few dollars or any other legitimate reason. There is STILL that stigma of the illegal backroom cigar smoking group of men that a lot of folks still attach to the game which for those of us who enjoy the game might need to demystify.

Live play will generally come down to a personal preference and level of comfort in my opinion. I believe the bigger issue is simply having the opportunity to play live poker and be able to comfortably enjoy the game. If it's important enough, we all need to continue to focus to start somewhere.

Excellent article, but I am sure for women it feels like swimming upstream.

By the by regarding the post by Nafor above, the number of women who play online and anonymously is much higher than live according to poker sites and that speaks volumes on several fronts.

As I have given my opinion before. I am not going to cover the same ground again but I will say I think it will simply be a question of time and those invested need to be patient. It's taken decades for women to break through on numerous fronts and poker remain one of the holdouts. I think we are all agreed the number of women interested in poker will never match men (for a variety of reasons) but the fact so few play is a loss to the industry and the prize pools.

One of the more interesting ideas would be to recruit women who really fit the game (serious amateurs) and sponsor them to play for say a year in high profile tournaments with a lot of media coverage. A question of priorities. Samantha Abernathy was recently recruited by 888 and she seems to be playing tourneys and keeping a high profile. But you had years where the likes of Liv Boeree were on PokerStars books but I could never work out quite why as she seldom seemed to do anything in her ambassadors role. If some major sponsors pulled out their finger to recruit women who really wanted a crack at the professional circuit (and I mean live) then they could have a more profound influence on the women's game.

But, I'll repeat, excellent article.

I agree.

Although, I am not a live poker player (not even in a home game but wouldn't be out of the question) I thoroughly enjoy watching live poker. I have zero interest in playing any live games but for those women who do, I believe it's important to at least take steps even though overall the female poker population will likely feel we are 'swimming upstream'. Some of the efforts made will simply need to be repeated and tweaked till there is a noticeable breakthrough. Also, in my opinion, I do believe there can be some ground gained on this topic over time IF the ideas and plans do not fall off - this has to be a priority to make it work and have a lasting effect.

 

[DTaboada]

I tottaly agree. Lets think about it properly and find some ideas tô incentive the womans to play!

 

[June4Spades]

We need role models! Tim Ferris is featuring Liv Boeree on the most recent episode of his podcast.

 

[KrazyKoo]

I think poker is the kind of game that attracts more male players no matter what.

 

[DS3]

We need role models! Tim Ferris is featuring Liv Boeree on the most recent episode of his podcast.

I am going to have to politely disagree on the Liv Boeree front.

No doubt she is popular amongst guys but therein lies the rub. She promotes herself rather than the game - the babe, the brainiac, the rocker -she wants to be a ‘personality’ and being a poker player was a stepping stone to celebrity (and just for the record I have asked before how/why Igor Kurganov was ever an ambassador)

It is the poker sites right to choose who they want to hire as ambassadors but I’ve argued most of them appear ineffective (especially celebrities such as Kevin Hart). The idea of an ambassador is to grow the game and as the game does not seem to be growing in any dramatic fashion in recent years (particularly online, apart from the Covid bounce) then I argue the industry methods don’t seem to get much traction.

I don’t believe I have ever hear or read a single comment about anyone being drawn to poker because of Liv Boeree, and that is my simple yardstick. And at this point Liv Boeree has barely been at a poker table for years has she?

I believe there are a number of committed female poker players out there that would love an opportunity to dedicate themselves to the game for a period. If the major sites had the desire to locate, sponsor and promote them it could pay dividends.

This is why I mentioned Samantha Abernathy as being hired by 888. Abernathy is also know for her looks but at least appears to have been actively playing and representing 888 at tournaments. That said I balk at the idea women poker players need to be ‘glamazons’.

What I pray for is a woman to take down the wsop main event. Trust me, that would be the closest thing to reproducing the Moneymaker effect since, well, Chris Moneymaker.

 

[caracaski220]

The lack of female representation in poker is not a new thing. And here we are, once again, looking to find ways for women to feel more included especially when it comes to live poker play. There are steps taken to at least open the doors a little bit for women to feel comfortable as explained in the article linked below.

Even though we have discussed this topic from time to time, let us know what you think might encourage more women to at the very least attempt to play poker.

Addressing Poker’s Problem with Gender Equality​

There are some great female poker players. I think there arent more because of conditioning. Women are are generally conditioned to be more risk averse, which is counter to a gambling mentallity. But there is no reason a woman cannot be the best player in the world.

 

[I Live Poker]

I think the causes come first as mentioned in the article, lower wages and task assignments for women that make them have other priorities or even commitments. However, on the other hand, the source of income would not be the main factor as many male players start with little or no resources.
When it comes to incentives for women's leagues, I think this just brings more separation, I understand that there are physical differences and in physical sports this causes a disadvantage (but that's not the rule either)
But poker being a sport of the mind I think we shouldn't separate it just cause more discrimination.
Changes don't happen so fast, especially when it comes to a sexist society for centuries, but it's already started!
The article is excellent, and what really helps a lot to change that are the media and brave women like you and all who have always fought and never given up.

 

[Debi]

I'm a bit puzzled by this article. The impression that I got was that there definitely is some thrust to push women towards becoming live casino customers, but is that truly the way to go if our "sincere" objective is to introduce women to poker?

Having a live game as one's first contact to poker is like throwing a person in the deep end of the pool even though she doesn't know how to swim.

Online games are, in my opinion, one of the best ways to learn the ins and outs of the game at one's own pace and in the comfort and privacy of their own home. After one comes proficient in the game then the leap to live environment is not so steep anymore.

I also see very little value in the live environment. Sure, the big events have big prizes. But outside these events the decision is a no brainer. Why would I choose to spend hours with loud, verbal and smelly people when I can play in peace with all the comforts of my home?

Almost all women already start online and then move to live poker. It is getting them to take that step that is the issue - and then to return to live play if they do that is the issue.

The goal of the article is to bring more awareness to the issues women face.

You can't compare playing live and online as if they are equal - they are far from it. This is not about playing online - a lot more women play online and we don't face the same issues there.

I am a woman - I play online as a very very poor substitute for playing live. They are nowhere near the same experience - I much prefer playing in live events and that is all I would ever play given the option.

There are loads of women who have no problem at all playing online - but because of bad experiences (not because they prefer to play online) they don't play often in live events. We should not have to choose based on any other reasons other than convenience and preference.

 

[Gritz18]

The lack of female representation in poker is not a new thing. And here we are, once again, looking to find ways for women to feel more included especially when it comes to live poker play. There are steps taken to at least open the doors a little bit for women to feel comfortable as explained in the article linked below.

Even though we have discussed this topic from time to time, let us know what you think might encourage more women to at the very least attempt to play poker.

Addressing Poker’s Problem with Gender Equality​

In my opinion, women have been proving for a long time that they are capable, not only in poker, but in other sports and professions.
Unfortunately, we still live in a sexist society, which says that a woman's place is to take care of the house and children.
Women have their rights and space just like men, too bad this doesn't work in practice because men always want the spotlight for them.

 

[hilary antonik filho]

How about an exclusive day for women, or daily tournaments for women, I have noticed in person the lack of women, every now and then it appears from one to three

 

[Nafor]

The goal of the article is to bring more awareness to the issues women face.

You can't compare playing live and online as if they are equal - they are far from it. This is not about playing online - a lot more women play online and we don't face the same issues there.

I think you missed my point completely. I wasn't comparing live vs online games. Without of a doubt they are two totally different worlds.

My point was to simplify how do we get from A to B.

Like the article said, there are many factors at play which affect women's involvement in poker. Some of the reasons are directly connected to the poker ecosystem and others are rooted much deeper in the society, and as such they are beyond the means of what poker can change.

We do have many male pros but there are also millions of men who never make it even near the top. If we had similar amounts of women interested in poker then we would probably have also more women playing as pros. The lack of interest goes much deeper than the unwelcoming environment in the casinos.

If we look at the WPA survey where two thirds of the answers came from women, one of the interesting factors was that 89 percent of the answers were given in the 35 to 55+ age groups. Only less than one percent of the answers were given by the youngest adults. Maybe they simply weren't interested in the issue?

In my view poker is like smoking. You either get hooked up at young age, or if you don't it is very unlikely that you'll start later. Even here at CardsChat many of our members are probably young and male. Sure, there are female members but even in our pleasant and supportive environment we have many more male members than we have women. Why is that?

Also in the online world there are much more male poker streamers than women who stream. courtiebee is the only one that comes to mind. Some of the males are totally clueless players and yet they stream for some reason.

The WPA survey also pointed out that 37.5 percent do not know how to play, and 12.5 percent are not interested to learn. 25 percent had no bankroll, and another 25 percent said that they were never introduced to the game. What is the best environment to address these issues is a question that everyone can think on themselves, but I don't think that a casino is the best place to get started.

Also, Kristin Brotherton's comment was a bit odd.
"When you don’t have money to spend, it makes it hard to justify going to the card house to throw down $100-$300 to play."

300 dollars is of course a large sum of money to simply throw at the game, and even many men could say the same thing, but isn't this simply a question of proper bankroll management? Imagine if interested noob would read the article and said "Jeez, if poker takes that much money I'm not going to even start!". Everyone can grind from the bottom up but not all of us have the interest to do so .

Personally, even as a man, I couldn't care less of the live games. If online games would not exist I probably would have never started poker.

 

[Debi]

I live in the world of women poker players - there are tons of young women involved and they are equally concerned about these issues.

You missed Kristin's point - that has zero to do with bankroll management and everything to do with pay inequality.

 

[samuri]

I really don't understand this post. I welcome women to the game and I dont see any road blocks for them.

 

[Debi]

I really don't understand this post. I welcome women to the game and I dont see any road blocks for them.

Did you read the news article linked in the first post? It will give you some insight.

One of the biggest hurdles is how men treat women on the table.

 

[thedarkman]

The lack of female representation in poker is not a new thing. And here we are, once again, looking to find ways for women to feel more included especially when it comes to live poker play. There are steps taken to at least open the doors a little bit for women to feel comfortable as explained in the article linked below.

Even though we have discussed this topic from time to time, let us know what you think might encourage more women to at the very least attempt to play poker.

Addressing Poker’s Problem with Gender Equality​

This is an imaginary problem.

 

[Debi]

This is an imaginary problem.

What do you base this on? Because I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is not imaginary.

 

[heguli82]

What are these obstacles exactly ladies meet on live tabels? I mean there is a lot of bad beheivour and trash talking between (man)players and thats part of the (live)game.

As has been staded here before, the number of women interested in poker will never match men because of many reason.

 

[Shells]

What are these obstacles exactly ladies meet on live tabels? I mean there is a lot of bad beheivour and trash talking between (man)players and thats part of the (live)game.

As has been staded here before, the number of women interested in poker will never match men because of many reason.

I think the bad behaviour of men or women at any poker table would be enough to deter a lot of people from playing. What else would there need to be to keep women from playing live poker? Behaviour is a big one in my opinion.

 

[I Live Poker]

I think you missed my point completely. I wasn't comparing live vs online games. Without of a doubt they are two totally different worlds.

My point was to simplify how do we get from A to B.

Like the article said, there are many factors at play which affect women's involvement in poker. Some of the reasons are directly connected to the poker ecosystem and others are rooted much deeper in the society, and as such they are beyond the means of what poker can change.

We do have many male pros but there are also millions of men who never make it even near the top. If we had similar amounts of women interested in poker then we would probably have also more women playing as pros. The lack of interest goes much deeper than the unwelcoming environment in the casinos.

If we look at the WPA survey where two thirds of the answers came from women, one of the interesting factors was that 89 percent of the answers were given in the 35 to 55+ age groups. Only less than one percent of the answers were given by the youngest adults. Maybe they simply weren't interested in the issue?

In my view poker is like smoking. You either get hooked up at young age, or if you don't it is very unlikely that you'll start later. Even here at CardsChat many of our members are probably young and male. Sure, there are female members but even in our pleasant and supportive environment we have many more male members than we have women. Why is that?

Also in the online world there are much more male poker streamers than women who stream. courtiebee is the only one that comes to mind. Some of the males are totally clueless players and yet they stream for some reason.

The WPA survey also pointed out that 37.5 percent do not know how to play, and 12.5 percent are not interested to learn. 25 percent had no bankroll, and another 25 percent said that they were never introduced to the game. What is the best environment to address these issues is a question that everyone can think on themselves, but I don't think that a casino is the best place to get started.

Also, Kristin Brotherton's comment was a bit odd.
"When you don’t have money to spend, it makes it hard to justify going to the card house to throw down $100-$300 to play."

300 dollars is of course a large sum of money to simply throw at the game, and even many men could say the same thing, but isn't this simply a question of proper bankroll management? Imagine if interested noob would read the article and said "Jeez, if poker takes that much money I'm not going to even start!". Everyone can grind from the bottom up but not all of us have the interest to do so .

Personally, even as a man, I couldn't care less of the live games. If online games would not exist I probably would have never started poker.

My mother is interested in learning at the age of 58, without ever having had direct contact with poker. I want to see how she will behave during this process.
But it would be interesting if I could get her a computer, she is breaking through on her cell phone on some joke sites. I helped her to create accounts on cash sites but it is very limited by mobile. Well now I've given up trying to teach her, she's on her own I want to see the end result of it.

I live in the world of women poker players - there are tons of young women involved and they are equally concerned about these issues.

You missed Kristin's point - that has zero to do with bankroll management and everything to do with pay inequality.

My goodness, I didn't pay attention to this, but as I started to honor the skill of several professional women I started to notice the specific attacks, associating wrong moves with the gender. It's not like a generic conversation. It's proof, because if such criticisms were made to men, even if not directed to the genre, the outcome of the story would probably not be cordial, so that doesn't happen. Simply genuine lack of respect.

 

[Luvepoker]

As a man who was raised by 3 great women I do look at things different than most. My grandmothers really did a lot to make me into the man I am today with my mom of course. As the father of an incredable young lady and a son I do what I can to pass on the values I have learned .

I think this article could apply to some men as well but this does really point out some of the issues the women face. Most time the women are the full time car givers to the children and the children come 1st. I actually do this with mine and understand the issue. My sons Soccer game, My daughters clarinet lessons amounts other things are a priority over my poker playing. Some of the things that I have missed playing poker over are, I would rather go to a father daughter dance, tournament Soccer games and prom dress shopping stopped me from playing in poker tournament this year alone. Most of the guys I know wont give up a WSOP circit event to go dress shopping but I did and loved every second of it. Of course how many dads have daughters and there friend who wan a dad to come? I do and I am blessed to have this.

As for money, I get it. We dont have a lot but when many make less than there counter parts males is does make it hard to play the live game. By making less it will leave them less opportunities to play live.

As for marketing to women, how often do you see poker spokeswomen or sponsored female pros? Yes there are some but really how ofton do you see them. If you ask for a female name in poker many will say Lynn Gilmartin or Maria Ho. Mostt know they for there commentary. Many know Maria plays but how many men know Lynn Gilmartin has won a EPT event? Yes she plays poke but most dont know it. If the game had more marketing to women you may see more of them play.

When I think back to the home game days when we have 14 or 15 playing there were really 3 or 4 good players inn the group. 3 of the 4 best in my opinion were the ladys. Only 1 plays live. Imagine if more played.

One thing I thing would help would be more lady's events at the WSOP. The one event is nice but I cant help but wonder if they added a few more with different variants of the game if it would give more lady a opportunity to play at the WSOP that will in turn get them more comfortable playing live to play more open events and expanding the player pools in other events.

Did you read the news article linked in the first post? It will give you some insight.

One of the biggest hurdles is how men treat women on the table.

Sadly Debi I have see it at the tables. I was thrilled and lucky to play against one top Brazilian pro when I was with team Cardschat in 2019. Here name is Vivian Salbest. The comments from a few of the males at the tables was not nice. I would pass on what they said but doubt it would be allowable. One make a comment about what he would like to do with her. Honestly I would have been escorted out of the Rio if someone said these things to my daughter. I did recognized her and think I was the only one who had a clue who she was. She ignore them and just play her game but she and I did chat a little. She even apologized sucking out on me. The only other person at the table who was respectful to her was another lady who sat next to me. She was actually a really talented and nice poker pro.

This is an imaginary problem.

Why would you think that is so? While some items in the article can apply to both men and women there is an issue. I have played with several lady's in the home games and they admit playing live is not really possible at time. Most never get invited to the home games as well.

What are these obstacles exactly ladies meet on live tabels? I mean there is a lot of bad beheivour and trash talking between (man)players and thats part of the (live)game.

As has been staded here before, the number of women interested in poker will never match men because of many reason.

While I agree women wont match the amount of men overall, I do believe you could easily see 35 to 45 % of the players being female if not for all the obstacles. They may not be to you and many men wont see these as obsticals but they are there. Most women make less than men. If you dont have the funds to play that's a issue. Children, many will be offended if the lady goes to play poker but if a guy goes there is no issue. I have seen this 1st hand. As a dad who kids come 1st, I dont get to play live as I want. I can see there point here.

I really don't understand this post. I welcome women to the game and I dont see any road blocks for them.

That is good and I welcome them to. The problem is there are men who dont and when they show up can be rude and abusive to them. Yes the men will do this to each other as well but I have seen multable men ganging up on the women and that is an issue.

 

[pescaofish]

I agree with Debi, and I think there is some games on line only for ladies. an alternative will be, in live Tournaments, to set a given amount of the pot to the best women players in that Tournament.