ILLEGAL for US players to deposit $ ?!?!?! +

Divebitch

Divebitch

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I'd have bumped up my thread from last night, but wanted to edit the subject, so perheps I'd get more hits and a single reply. So here is the gist....

Signed up with party poker yesterday. You had to fill out all name & address info if you wanted to play cash games (aren't freerolls considered cash games??). But I was not even ATTEMPTING to make any deposit yet when I got this error message (see attachment below). I'm fairly certain I can STILL deposit into FT & bodog by credit card (!!). Has the US law regarding online gaming changed recently? If so, how can the law not apply to ALL sites regarding US players?? Are WE THE US PLAYERS playing illegally, and only Party Pokers and a few others honor US law, even though the host country would be operating perfectly legally in taking our $ within their own jurisdiction?

Also have $ at Ultimate and Carbon, although I've never deposited a dime. Are US players able to cash out and just not deposit? I've really not seen this issue posted, and it seems serious enough to warrant a bump. Any explanations welcome.

P.S. I would suspect that ALL these sites could shut down US accts in one fell swoop, and tell us to go pi$$ off, and we'd be SOL. Guess the only thing keeping them honest (with exceptions hehe) is reputation. They don't want to kill the cash cow though.
 

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eagle jim

eagle jim

Visionary
My understanding is that according to the letter of the law, if we play for money online then we are breaking US law. (gee thanks big brother). If you will not in the user agreement (the one I am most familiar with is bodog) it states something to the effect .........for the purposes of this wager it is understood that you are traveling to the Island of Malta to place the wager and receive any payouts.....or some such gobbledy gook. Hopefully at some point our elected reps will get out of our personal business (not likely) and allow us to gamble online legally. Until then we are at our own risk. I keep a minimum on any site and should I ever hit it big I would cash out the winnings immediately. That is my understanding, but I was wrong once before...i think it was 1963 or maybe 64...lol
 
smd173

smd173

Cardschat Elite
It is not illegal for US players to make deposits or play. The UIGEA was strictly for the FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS that make the deposit for you.

Party Poker is a publicly traded company in the UK, so when the UIGEA became law, they decided to not allow US players to play because they didn't want to look bad to their shareholders like they were violating US law. This positions PP for possibly getting a license in the US, should the US ever reverse the UIGEA.

Because pokerstars, FullTilt, Absolute/Ultimate Bet, and the others are not publicly traded, they have continued to accept the deposits from US players because they truly understand that the UIGEA is a load of crap and they don't have to answer to shareholders regarding their decisions.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Um, you know that since the US legislation hit, most listings/recommendations are pretty explicit about US allowed or not, simply because of this?

Tilt, PokerStars are big partly because they still accept US players. Bodog does as well, as does UB and Absolute.

Most players already know, Party does not accept US players which how they dropped from traffic leadership.
 
z28_RoadRage

z28_RoadRage

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Freerolls on Party Poker are for players that have deposited money.

I think "Play for Free" means the play money chip area only.
 
golan

golan

Enthusiast
im happy with FTP and PS for cards I dont like the software on the other sites. I use bodog to bet the NFL and thats it. FTP does pay americans. I hit a guareentee tourney last yr(the pink ones) for 2500 and they sent me payment
Peace
 
Vollycat

Vollycat

Rock Star
Umm, I don't want to poke fun, but where you been? Party Poker hasn't allowed US players for almost 2 years now.

The legistlation is so vaugue that there are some sites (Full Tilt, poker stars, Ultimate Bet, etc.) that think the law doesn't apply at all. Others (Party Poker is obviously the big one) that say the law does make it illegal.

Then there are states like I live in, Washington, that have made it made the law much more direct--it's a felony to play online here. Go figure.

Some sites you can play at, but where it is becoming difficult is funding and withdrawing. The Home Security Bill.

All in all....bunch of BS to be sure. Just make sure your local laws don't get more specific then the federal one.
 
Divebitch

Divebitch

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Thanks, that makes sense!

It is not illegal for US players to make deposits or play. The UIGEA was strictly for the FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS that make the deposit for you.

Party Poker is a publicly traded company in the UK, so when the UIGEA became law, they decided to not allow US players to play because they didn't want to look bad to their shareholders like they were violating US law. This positions PP for possibly getting a license in the US, should the US ever reverse the UIGEA.

Because PokerStars, FullTilt, Absolute/Ultimate Bet, and the others are not publicly traded, they have continued to accept the deposits from US players because they truly understand that the UIGEA is a load of crap and they don't have to answer to shareholders regarding their decisions.

And Eagle Jim, also interesting - wonder if you have to open a Malta bank acct and have your money fowarded to a 'vacation home' in bumblef*$% Kansas. :p

Thanks to all!!
 
G

GabryRox

Guest
Yeah, the state-level restrictions are plainly an attempt to keep more tax/fee revenues in the state coffers so they can waste it on stupic crap as usual. Think of it, in Oregon, they have video poker machines in bars and such, not to mention all of the Indian casinos (not sure if the government gets revenues from them but I wouldn't doubt it). Why the hell would I want to leave my confortable home and go eat smoke and deal with drunks for hours to play some video poker? That's essentially it, if politicians see their revenue stream being threatened in any way, they will create bull$hit legislation to try and block it.
I've yet to hear even a 1% legitimate reason to ban online gambling in the US. The typicall BS response is that it's to reduce "problem-gamblers" and their impact on society. This of course is complete BS! Anyone with half a brain knows that "problem-gamblers" are going to find their fix anywhere and any way they can... Indian Casinos, back-room poker games, trips to Vegas... whatever. Banning online gambling will do absolute nothing to curb problem gambling... it's just a bunch of political double-speak in order to protect their cash cows.
 
H

hornellfred

Enthusiast
Just another gift from the US do gooders. The only freedoms these idiots care about is the right to carry an automatic weapon. The legal betting industry (horse racing, casinos, etc) are the ones putting the money in the politicians pockets to make such stupid laws.
 
Divebitch

Divebitch

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Well in a thread last night, I added...

something to the effect that a guy posted here a couple days ago, saying Party had a LOT of great players there, and you'll lose all your deposits, etc. So I was curious & signed up. I'd heard of it, but was already at 5 or 6 other sites, enough to keep me busy in spare time. I've heard that about Washington. Moved from Seattle 3 years ago, long before I found online poker. Remember only 1 Indian casino there, but could have been others further east causing the problem. Strange still, cuz it ain't the bible belt out there.

BTW, I forget where, but a few months ago, I signed an online petition that started ou t'poker is not a crime', and heard from 3 or 4 people - a PA State senator, a congresswoman, & assemblyman. Looked like form letters of course, but perhaps they are taking note of the #s of petitioners.

Umm, I don't want to poke fun, but where you been? Party Poker hasn't allowed US players for almost 2 years now.

The legistlation is so vaugue that there are some sites (Full Tilt, Poker Stars, Ultimate Bet, etc.) that think the law doesn't apply at all. Others (Party Poker is obviously the big one) that say the law does make it illegal.

Then there are states like I live in, Washington, that have made it made the law much more direct--it's a felony to play online here. Go figure.

Some sites you can play at, but where it is becoming difficult is funding and withdrawing. The Home Security Bill.

All in all....bunch of BS to be sure. Just make sure your local laws don't get more specific then the federal one.
 
MrMuckets

MrMuckets

Legend
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At least once a month i bombard my congressman with an email stating my opposition to the abomination known as UIGEA. In it I list the reasons it is hurtful and hateful law. John Kyl should be removed from office. He is not fit to serve.:mad::mad::mad:
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
OK, the simple breakdown is:

- The UIGEA affects banks and financial institutions in that it says they can't fund online gambling. It DOES NOT affect online players. Period.

- The only reason some sites and online wallet companies have stopped servicing US customers is because those companies want to have other business dealings in the US and don't want to be cuffed as soon as they touch American soil, like the guys from neteller and BoS were. Party Gaming recently paid a large monetary settlement to the US government for this same reason. So their execs don't become wanted fugitives by the US.

Simple.
 
Divebitch

Divebitch

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Why the hell would I want to leave my confortable home and go eat smoke and deal with drunks for hours to play some video poker? That's essentially it, if politicians see their revenue stream being threatened in any way, they will create bull$hit legislation to try and block it.
I've yet to hear even a 1% legitimate reason to ban online gambling in the US. The typicall BS response is that it's to reduce "problem-gamblers" and their impact on society. This of course is complete BS! Anyone with half a brain knows that "problem-gamblers" are going to find their fix anywhere and any way they can... Indian Casinos, back-room poker games, trips to Vegas... whatever. Banning online gambling will do absolute nothing to curb problem gambling... it's just a bunch of political double-speak in order to protect their cash cows.

Bingo! I'm surprised PA doesn't have more laws re "internet gambling", as not only do we have like 1 casino (no live poker) here, but Atlantic City is a FREE bus ride from our doorstep (all casinos give back $20, ride is like $19 - this is GREYHOUND!!). But agreed, people with a problem will find their way, and rationalize it's just a fun weekend, or find their own game. Lotto is for absolute idiots IMO, sorry, with horse racing a not-so-close 2nd.
 
P

pokerdog777

Guest
Its illegal for the companies to accept the money(and technically for us too, but no players have been prosecuted). The site owners just need to avoid the US.
 
smd173

smd173

Cardschat Elite
Bingo! I'm surprised PA doesn't have more laws re "internet gambling",

That's because PA allows for online betting of horse racing.

My hope is that in a few more years, they'll just add poker. After all, it didn't take them long to add "electronic" blackjack and roulette. I imagine that electronic craps will be next and then they'll just allow table games all together.
 
pokerace3454

pokerace3454

Guest
that bull crap they allow online horse racing. all well usa geting screwed over what they doing with this is law wrong Europe and other country's are geting sewed i hope they sewed for billion's of dollars :D:deal:
 
N.D.

N.D.

Visionary
I read somewhere the only thing explicitly against federal law is sports betting online and that's because it's illegal to place a sports bet over the phone line.

I just wish I could remember where I read it.
 
Divebitch

Divebitch

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Could this be any stranger?

Freerolls on Party Poker are for players that have deposited money.

I think "Play for Free" means the play money chip area only.

I hadn't checked my yahoo email in 2 days, but this came Thursday Afternoon. They want me to deposit USD. Or is this a mass email they send to Europeans too, asking them to deposit USD? :eek: So I logged into Party Poker, hit 'deposit', and get that same error message above. Then I look for freerolls, and there is one for N & S America! :confused: Maybe they do let us build a bankroll like that.

What is this 'final table deal making possible' stuff in that last attachment? Like chop chop? :p
 

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Egon Towst

Egon Towst

Cardschat Elite
- The only reason some sites and online wallet companies have stopped servicing US customers is because those companies want to have other business dealings in the US and don't want to be cuffed as soon as they touch American soil, like the guys from Neteller and BoS were. Party Gaming recently paid a large monetary settlement to the US government for this same reason. So their execs don't become wanted fugitives by the US.


Perfectly true, but not the only reason.

Party (like several other large poker sites) is based in the UK, quoted on the London Stock Exchange and governed by UK law. The UK authorities are pretty hot on business ethics and trading standards, one of which is that you must respect local law in all major jurisdictions where you operate.

All of the UK-based poker rooms ban American players because, if they did not, they would be at serious risk of having the plug pulled in Britain, as well as being wanted in the US.
 
smd173

smd173

Cardschat Elite
Then I look for freerolls, and there is one for N & S America!

There are other countries in North America besides the US. ;)

USD is the most common currency used on poker/gambling sites. I know there are a few in Europe that now that use a base currency of Euros, but it's less common.
 
Divebitch

Divebitch

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There are other countries in North America besides the US. ;)

Not any that matter, except for a small Island off mexico called Cozumel. :p But that did actually occur to me, but thought they would have specified the exclusion. Then I forgot to sign up for it, but we'll see.
 
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