Where are the statistics ?

[BILTIZ]

Honestly and without using anything except our logical reasoning
Who still beleives in 2022 that online poker is really random and not just another algor like facebooks or instagr trying to suck our money
And if so where are all the pro s why dont we see them playing like the poker boom era ?
i know haters gonna hate and paid people gonna jump to defence but its time to show some statistics guys
The science the numbers we need them published at least once every 2 or 3 years
Otherwise im honestly feeling like a donkey playing slots

 

[Poker Orifice]

Honestly and without using anything except our logical reasoning
Who still beleives in 2022 that online poker is really random and not just another algor like facebooks or instagr trying to suck our money
And if so where are all the pro s why dont we see them playing like the poker boom era ?
i know haters gonna hate and paid people gonna jump to defence but its time to show some statistics guys
The science the numbers we need them published at least once every 2 or 3 years
Otherwise im honestly feeling like a donkey playing slots

When you say "Where are all the pros?" Who exactly are you even referring to?
Pros from pre 2010 online? Many of these guys don't even play now (&/or don't play online)

There are MANY pros who are playing online (just take a look at the EPT games in the Stars lobby... or any of the HiRoller MTT events).

What 'statistics' are you referring to? And how would one go about producing them for you?

 

[fundiver199]

I also dont quite understand, what "science" and "numbers" you want published? If you mean, that nobody can win long term in online poker, this is definitely not true, and you can just look up a number of random players on sharkscope to learn otherwise.

But of course this does not mean, that winning a significant amount of money online is easy. Here in 2021 I have started to play a larger number of single table SnGs AKA STTs, because I dont always have time for MTTs. I knew, before I started, that my ROI and hourly was going to be lower than with MTTs, but I still wanted to give it a shot.

I just ran a filter in my PT4 database for pokerstars to check the overall results, and right now I have played 3.004 STTs on PokerStars for a total buy-in of $14.889 and a total profit of 446$. So around a 5$ average buyin and around a 3% ROI. Obviously this is not something, which have made me rich, and I dont even want to think about my hourly winrate.

But I am winning, and its not surpricing, that its difficult to find massive edges in STTs, when most of them are turbos, there are a lot of regulars grinding these events, and the rake is pretty high as well. I have paid 1.133$ in rake, so without rake I would be up more than 3 times as much, as I actually am. Which is again a typical picture for both SnGs and cash games.

 

[The Long Shot]

I knew, before I started, that my ROI and hourly was going to be lower than with MTTs, but I still wanted to give it a shot.

You have a better winrate vs hundreds of players than vs 8 players? That's amazing.

 

[fundiver199]

You have a better winrate vs hundreds of players than vs 8 players? That's amazing.

Yes you do because you play more hands per tournament in MTTs, and you get more leverage, when you run deep and can win your buyin back 30-100 times or sometimes even more. On PokerStars my MTT stats are 4.250 event played, total buyin $15.769, total win $2.518 and total rake $1.515. So around a 17$ ROI, and a lot of these games are not even real MTTs, they are multitable SnGs with 18-180 players.

 

[The Long Shot]

Yes you do because you play more hands per tournament in MTTs, and you get more leverage, when you run deep and can win your buyin back 30-100 times or sometimes even more. On PokerStars my MTT stats are 4.250 event played, total buyin $15.769, total win $2.518 and total rake $1.515. So around a 17$ ROI, and a lot of these games are not even real MTTs, they are multitable SnGs with 18-180 players.

How does more hands per tournament = higher winrate?

I think I may be misunderstanding your numbers, too:
"total buyin $15.769, total win $2.518" doesn't look like a winning record, but maybe you've got some decimals in the wrong place or whatever.

 

[fundiver199]

How does more hands per tournament = higher winrate?

Because if you have a skill edge against the field, then you win a small amount of chips for each hand dealt, since you make slightly better decisions than the opponents. Of course if you are a worse than average player it will be the opposite. Then you will lose less in very fast formats like a DoN turbo SnG and more in a big and slow MTT.

I think I may be misunderstanding your numbers, too:
"total buyin $15.769, total win $2.518" doesn't look like a winning record, but maybe you've got some decimals in the wrong place or whatever.

I bought in for $15.769 and cashed for $18.287 for a net win of $2.518.

 

[alien666dj]

You only need your own statistics. Create your own success story.

 

[The Long Shot]

I bought in for $15.769 and cashed for $18.287 for a net win of $2.518.

Right, makes sense, sorry

I'd respectfully question your thinking on the extra hands played in an MTT making them more profitable over time than STTs, though. An MTT might be 300 hands and a STT might be 75, but you could play 4x STTs in the time it takes to play that one MTT, and in each one you'd start off closer to the money*.

*less money, granted

But this is all abstract to me, you're the one with the actual results! I guess I'm impressed by your MTT record, and surprised that with your standard of play you don't do even better in smaller fields.

 

[fundiver199]

I'd respectfully question your thinking on the extra hands played in an MTT making them more profitable over time than STTs, though. An MTT might be 300 hands and a STT might be 75, but you could play 4x STTs in the time it takes to play that one MTT, and in each one you'd start off closer to the money*.

That is true, if you are talking about hourly winrate rather than ROI, and if the rake for a STT was only 25% of that for an MTT. However on most poker sites that is not the case, and therefore its much more difficult to overcome the rake while playing STTs. You play more tournaments per hour, and this also means more rake payment per hour. STTs are great rake machines for poker sites especially the turbo and hyper turbo formats.

 

[1984]

Honestly and without using anything except our logical reasoning
Who still beleives in 2022 that online poker is really random and not just another algor like facebooks or instagr trying to suck our money
And if so where are all the pro s why dont we see them playing like the poker boom era ?
i know haters gonna hate and paid people gonna jump to defence but its time to show some statistics guys
The science the numbers we need them published at least once every 2 or 3 years
Otherwise im honestly feeling like a donkey playing slots

Don't take it too seriously, you never will make real, life changing amount, money from poker anyway. And as everything online - generally what includes technology - can be manipulated, and usually if it is an option, it happens. why poker would be the exception, when nothing else is??????

played enough in different rooms in the last 3 years to compare them. It is pretty insane how differently the random number generator algorythms work on different networks...

I don't believe, never believed and never will, as it cannot be proven... for me personally, it has proven that it is not random, i don't care, just changed the order of the reasons why i play... so they can try as hard as they can "feel me like a donkey", how you wrote, it won't work...

I rarely play on higher limits, only tourneys from sat tickets, and don't care much the result, profit anymore, still good for waste the time with something and still can make some cents...

 

[Alex70793]

Yes, everything in online poker is fine, people play and win, and it is everyone's personal right to post statistics, there is no need to breed panic.
If you play and do not win, it does not mean that you are being deceived, maybe you should think about the fact that you are doing something wrong.
If you want to change the world, start with yourself.

 

[fundiver199]

Don't take it too seriously, you never will make real, life changing amount, money from poker anyway.

Some people do though, but realistically it requires, that you devote all your time to poker. Or bink the lucky home-run like Cris Moneymaker did. For people like myself, who just play online as a side hustle, I completely agree. Poker might give a small side income, but it will not make us rich. That should be fairly obvious also, if we are playing 5$ tournaments or something similar, as most people are.

 

[Rob Hobson]

Statistics are just the basic, but stay far from it too long and you'll be in trouble soon.