U.S enforcement of online gaming legislation.

[DreamPoker]

Hi Guys,

I know that this is certainly a disappointing turn of events, we were hoping
that it would never have come to anything like this but it has. There are
several rumors doing it's rounds on the forums, so please take a minute
to read this message I hope it does answer all your questions if you have
been affected by this development, again I would like to stress that we
do not enjoy turning players away.

We have notifed in excess of 200+ members of the closure of their accounts
and have requested that all funds are withdrawn before the 11th. October 2006

I wanted to take a moment to put a few things into perspective about the stricter
application of online gaming legislation that certain US states are beginning to
enforce on sports-books, online casinos and poker rooms.

Prima and Microgaming have in no way been involved with this decision and other
Prima rooms still continue to allow access to these specific states. DreamPoker felt
that this too is needed in order to remain in operation so that we are in a position to
look after those members who look forward to any future gaming here at DreamPoker.

The seven states currently affected are:

Illinois
Nevada
Indiana
Washington
Wisconsin
Louisiana
Missouri

I would also like state that Prima is in no way facing any type of lawsuit, they are
fundamentally the network backbone for supplying the tables on which everyone
plays poker and the flash casino. Prima doesn't own any of the poker rooms attached
to the network, each of the poker rooms operate independently from one another and
are owned by their respective holders.

DreamPoker has taken the initiative to block play from these respective states not
because of fear or intimidation but out of respect for the law. We at DreamPoker
regard ourselves as a legitimate operator and have always operated within the
confines of the law.

This can be seen with our strict cashin and financial procedures ensuring that
your cash is always protected from people whose sole existence is to defraud
others out of their hard earned money.

We apologise for the inconvenience, we certainly do not enjoy losing any of our
valuable players. Furthermore we would like to thank any affected player for their
support of our site to date.

_________________

Regards,

Conrad Haack
DreamPoker Affiliate & Forum Admin.
www.dreampoker.com

 

[buckster436]

Thank You for this notice,, it dont effect me YET, but im sure it will down the road as this goes on,, buck

 

[Jack Daniels]

That was a very nicely written letter. But it is just rhetoric. Fact is that they are running scared from the U.S. and state governments. Nothing more.

And I don't play there now, have never played there before, and, because this is how they've chosen to deal with the U.S., I will never play there (in fact I will speak out against the site and explain why). This is the same thing I am doing to every online poker room that works this way. Because you know damn well that when the fed law is not passed, everyone will be back with their hands out looking for deposits.

 

[Freakakanus]

Wow, I'm surprised and am waiting for my e-mail. Of course I have never deposited there.....have no funds there.......and have already uninstalled their software from my computer so I guess I have nothing to worry about.
I do wonder however if that means RVP (which I like) or Betholdem (which is next on the uninstall list) will be doing the same thing. Doesn't surprise me that Nevada is on the list though. This state is run on gambling and doesn't want to see a penny go anywhere else.

 

[nateofdeath]

I got the email and was just about to post it...

what's really funny about this, and what i'd love to hear Mr. DreamPoker explaine (though i'm sure he won't, because there is no reason), is, Why? There is no online poker ban in wisconsin, no more so then anywhere else at least, so why kick us out? I mean, what did u do, pick those states out of a hat? You say its out of respect for the law, but let's be honest, it's illegal everywhere. I find it amusing that you'd only 'crack down' where states are supposedly (again i'd like to know where u get your information) beginning to enforce existing laws. Still, I have a feeling this is just the beginning of a gradual phase out of all US players for them. Fortunatly i'm not a Prima fan (btw Freak, the email clamied it was only Dream, and not representitive of all Prima sites... for the moment ) so i don't really care. None the less, way to go Dream Poker, way to bend over for the US gov't, way to do thier dirty work for them, enforcing a ban that doesn't even exist yet and probably never will, way to play right into their hands, falling for the only tactic they ever use, scare tactics. Good job

-n

 

[Egon Towst]

I will never play there (in fact I will speak out against the site and explain why).

Isn`t that a bit harsh ? You can`t blame poker sites for being worried, given that executives of two such companies have been arrested lately. Why would they want to face such hazards, when they can do business with Europeans without being criminalised.

These guys aren`t the villains, they are the victims. The people who deserve your anger are the nitwit American authorities.

 

[Egon Towst]

but let's be honest, it's illegal everywhere.
-n

No, actually it`s not. Perfectly legal in the UK and subject to licensing and regulation.

That`s why a lot of the Poker Sites are based in the UK or in UK dependent territories such as Gibraltar or the Channel Islands. Many of the biggest ones (Party for example) are quoted on the London Stock Exchange and regard themselves as perfectly respectable. That`s why it`s such a shock to them that the US authorities want to put handcuffs on `em.

 

[Egon Towst]

No, actually it`s not. Perfectly legal in the UK and subject to licensing and regulation.

and, now I think about it, it`s also legal across Europe and in canada and Australia (as far as I`m aware). America seems to be about the only one of the Western democracies to think that it`s the business of government to control the citizens` leisure.

Time for a revolution, I`d say. :smile:

 

[shinedown.45]

I just read the article and it got me thinking, I play at pokerstars and there are times that I check my connections and notice that Boston and California are on the host list for connections, does that mean the states that host a poker site recieve some sort of kickback from pokerstars and if so does it also mean that PS wont be affected in those states?

 

[~~Shelynn~~]

I'm so aggravated with this crap! Got another e-mail this morning and it's with just 7 states that have to have money accounts closed by Oct. 11. Talk about having your panties in a Twist!! Mine sure are. Now I don't know what in the world to do. This is a bunch of "Bull". What's next?!

 

[Bombjack]

let's be honest, it's illegal everywhere.

enforcing a ban that doesn't even exist yet and probably never will

So which is it?

 

[nateofdeath]

No, actually it`s not. Perfectly legal in the UK and subject to licensing and regulation.

by 'everywhere' i meant everywhere in america as that is the country that's the focus of this discussion. i understand that it's legal elsewhere.

So which is it?

both, those two statements weren't contradictory. it is illegal 'everywhere', but the laws have never been enforced online. it's only recently that there's been talk of a 'ban' going into place to actually start enforcing these existing laws. This has not happened yet, and as i said, i doubt it will. if you're confused, i don't blame you. that's america. it doesn't make much sense to me either, but its true.

-n

 

[Bombjack]

So it's illegal and not banned? How's that not contradictory? I'm not trying to poke holes in your argument, but I don't know what the rules are in the
States.

 

[nateofdeath]

So it's illegal and not banned? How's that not contradictory? I'm not trying to poke holes in your argument, but I don't know what the rules are in the
States.

i'm not even trying to make an argument. I edited my above post if you want a little better explanation, but ultimatly, those two statements are contradictory, but in the context of this situation they are both true

-n

 

[Jack Daniels]

Isn`t that a bit harsh ?

Not at all from my perspective. This is how I deal with all companies that have piss poor customer service, which is exactly how I see this. Granted I don't play there, but that isn't the point.

These guys aren`t the villains, they are the victims.

I will concede that if legislation goes through, they and more importantly the US citizens will be the victims. Until then, they are the villians in my eyes.

The people who deserve your anger are the nitwit American authorities.

Brother, this couldn't be more true.

 

[Egon Towst]

it's only recently that there's been talk of a 'ban' going into place to actually start enforcing these existing laws. This has not happened yet
-n

Correct me if I`m wrong, but I get the impression you`re not up to speed on this. It`s already happening.

During the last month, there have been two occasions when managers of British internet gaming companies have been arrested and treated in a less-than-courteous fashion while holidaying in America.

There`s a good deal of concern and anger about it in Britain. It`s this that Dreampoker is reacting to.

 

[Bombjack]

I can't see how it can be a crime for someone in another country to operate a legal site. The crime is being committed by the people who use those foreign sites to commit the illegal act of internet gambling, i.e. the users. Of course this is pretty much impossible to police. If the Americans want to stop people gambling online, make it illegal for American ISPs to provide access to those sites.

 

[nateofdeath]

Correct me if I`m wrong, but I get the impression you`re not up to speed on this. It`s already happening.

During the last month, there have been two occasions when managers of British internet gaming companies have been arrested and treated in a less-than-courteous fashion while holidaying in America.

There`s a good deal of concern and anger about it in Britain. It`s this that Dreampoker is reacting to.

perhaps not (though none of that has been reported here, nor has any sort of local crack down, which is what i was refering to), but you're missing my point. This has always been illegal in america, and no additional legislation has yet been passed, yet out of fear of something which is by no means a guarentee, companies like this are doing the government's dirty work for them. I mean, all those British managers would have had to of done to avoid arrest was stay in britan, which, all things considered, only makes sense, considering they were commiting what is technically a crime here. Ultimatly, as i've said in other threads, there's little point in even discussing this, as in the end it'll come down to which side decides to spend the most money on bribes. Go ahead and defend them, but in my opinion they are cowards and what they are doing is irrational, reactionary and unnecessary at this point. Fortunatly, as i said, they are a small player in the game, and the real muscle in this industry won't back down quite so easily.

-n

 

[Effexor]

So it's illegal and not banned? How's that not contradictory? I'm not trying to poke holes in your argument, but I don't know what the rules are in the
States.

There was a law passed a long time ago concerning placing "bets" over the phone lines, that made it illegal. The problem is that with the advent of the internet, it's unclear if that law applies to online wagering. Specially since the businesses taking the wagers aren't even in the U.S. The intent of the law as I understand, was to make it so they could arrest bookies and combat organized crime. There's a grey area here. The law wasn't intended for Paul, who plays poker for $1.10 a night. It was to help combat organized crime.

 

[Egon Towst]

none of that has been reported here
-n

I figured that must be the case, sounded as though you didn`t know.

It`s been headline news on national TV in the UK. As I said earlier, over here these companies are government-licensed and quoted on the stock exchange. They are considered perfectly respectable. In fact, because they are regulated, if you want a job with a gaming company you have to go through a vetting process, same as if you wanted to be a teacher or a police officer.

So, it seems mad to us that our sober citizens are harrassed, not in Iran or China but in America, our closest ally and allegedly a free country.

 

[Alon Ipser]

There was a law passed a long time ago concerning placing "bets" over the phone lines, that made it illegal. The problem is that with the advent of the internet, it's unclear if that law applies to online wagering. Specially since the businesses taking the wagers aren't even in the U.S. The intent of the law as I understand, was to make it so they could arrest bookies and combat organized crime. There's a grey area here. The law wasn't intended for Paul, who plays poker for $1.10 a night. It was to help combat organized crime.

Also, I think if you look at the people arrested here in the US you will find that they were charged with receiving wagers from sports betting and not poker. The law is pretty specific about it being sports betting and even more it's about it being the bookies and not the bettors.

As for Dreampoker removing the State of Washington, it is a felony to place wagers or buy lottery tickets online in WA. Unless of course it's horse racing which WA just licensed a California company to do. This crap is so hypocritical. I do not blame Dream but the officials of the States that have made poker illegal.

 

[FlowerofLife]

Oh Boy...

This and other resent events are reminding me of why I have escaped from a communist country to the USA some 30 years ago. Where the government were telling me what I can do and when I can do it. So, I suggest strongly that everyone start waking up very soon because I don't know where we can excape to from here!!!!!!

 

[bootleg]

I understand the state "Washington" being on the list but where did the others come from? Washington did pass a new law that went into affect in June making online gambling a felony so that is understable but I have no idea where the other states came from and why DreamPoker would be a leader in enforcing US laws that do not affect them?

Egon made a good point and it could be an effort due to the recent arrests made to the UK people coming to the US.