State of Online Poker in 2019

andosalado

andosalado

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I was a regular online poker player before black friday, playing mainly low stakes STN and tournaments. For different reasons I stopped playing for a couple of years, but now I'm back and doing pretty well on my first month. What I wanted to know is your opinion or insights on how much the game has changed in this years, lets say from 2012 to 2019.

The only main difference I notice is there's a lot less people playing than before.

Please let me know your thoughts.
 
andosalado

andosalado

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This thread looks like some STG tables at certain hours. Only me in it.
 
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freestocks

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Fewer people and sites plus the give away promotions are less.
 
Mr_Hand

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I stopped a little earlier that you. I made 30k in 08 and then lost my job. So I quit in early 09. For me, there just seems to be a lot more players that know what is positive equity. The calling range has opened quite a bit more than when I used to play. So I still see good results with what I’m doing, but I would expect the games to get harder and harder as I raise stakes.
 
andosalado

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Yes, I noticed that, specially playing STG. There seems to be a lot more people aware of push and fold and ICM related ranges and actions. I still see many fishes on lower stakes STNGS, but the rest seems to at least know what they are doing. I guess it's a new challenge to get better and adapt to the way people are playing today. I'm not doing bad, but it's harder and I don't get to play as many tables as before.
 
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c0rnBr34d

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Since you mention black Friday I assume you are playing in the US and will mention that online poker still isn't legal in many states so less players makes sense for a number of reasons.
1 - The poker boom from televised poker and the hole card camera compounded by the 2003 Chris Moneymaker effect has been steadily dying down for almost 16 years now.
2 - As mentioned above, post black Friday there are still many states where online poker is illegal.
3 - Despite general GDP and economic growth the middle and lower class average US income growths have either been flat or declined for the most part since the year 2000 depending on which chart or study you look at. Especially for the demographic that we expect to play online the most (under 44 years old).
4 - There is infinitely more quality free learning material out there now then there was in 2003 so the average player is better, meaning the average new guy is getting crushed harder.
5 - Software tools like solvers and HUDs have given established players even more of an edge vs new or recreational players.

So the younger middle class population (most of the online pool) has less expendable income, less access (legal states), there is less feeling that anyone can jump in and become a millionaire like Moneymaker, and the learning curve is steeper making it more likely for new players to flame out faster.
 
andosalado

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I'm not in the US, I just mentioned black friday because it was around that time I stopped playing poker online. Full Tilt closing was a big factor since I played there mostly and I didn't like pokerstars that much.

Anyway you've made a great analysis of the economic situation and probably applies to many other countries, not only the US. I'm starting to believe we lived the golden age of poker and it's not coming back. I will continue playing still because I enjoy it, but I'm not so sure about the chances of making good money from it right now.
 
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c0rnBr34d

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Thanks, happy to share my opinions. I agree most serious poker players seem to indicate the golden age is long gone but many seem to still be doing well both live and online. I guess it depends on your skill level and what you consider good money. Good luck!
 
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Jedimindtryx

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I was a regular online poker player before black friday, playing mainly low stakes STN and tournaments. For different reasons I stopped playing for a couple of years, but now I'm back and doing pretty well on my first month. What I wanted to know is your opinion or insights on how much the game has changed in this years, lets say from 2012 to 2019.

The only main difference I notice is there's a lot less people playing than before.

Please let me know your thoughts.
would say depends on where u are playing from and what sites i know the once all of america legalizes online poker again there will be plenty of players also the game evolves every month so in 2012 ppl was not defending say k3 from bb from late raise now ppl are tending to defend wider thats one example of how game evolved
 
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Jedimindtryx

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Thanks, happy to share my opinions. I agree most serious poker players seem to indicate the golden age is long gone but many seem to still be doing well both live and online. I guess it depends on your skill level and what you consider good money. Good luck!
i believe golden age could come back if more states start legalizing online poker that will be main factor imo
 
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c0rnBr34d

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i believe golden age could come back if more states start legalizing online poker that will be main factor imo
There could be another boom if some armature wins the wsop or something but it wont be as big as the 2003 boom that took no limit holdem from obscurity to fame and had everyone trying to get rich. The new influx will generally be younger players as the old guard has already tried and knows how difficult it is to "get rich" playing poker.

Is that going to happen anytime soon?
Depends on what you call soon. I suspect it will still be several years for some states. Maybe some states will resist even longer, Utah for example maybe never. Right now only 5 states are legal. In order of legalization: NV, NJ, DE, PA, WV. When large population states like CA, NY, FL, TX, etc join the club then you will see a lot more online players.
 
andosalado

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I'm not very familiar with the laws of USA, but making it legal would mean that US player will be able to play on international sites like pokerstars and partypoker?
 
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c0rnBr34d

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I'm not very familiar with the laws of USA, but making it legal would mean that US player will be able to play on international sites like pokerstars and partypoker?
I would assume so, but I'm not 100% certain. I know I can play on some international sites like ignition, FullTilt, ACR, so I assume they are all accessible. Not sure if every state is the same though.
 
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rafffinamore

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I started after this black Friday. For me poker reflects well what happens in real life around the world. The computerization, the increasing ease to study and at the same time, the distance of the state for these subjects, in my opinion are making the poker more and more competitive, this frustrates a lot of people, maybe that is the reason for the decrease of players , that is, the awareness that that activity is not for him.
 
andosalado

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I would assume so, but I'm not 100% certain. I know I can play on some international sites like ignition, FullTilt, ACR, so I assume they are all accessible. Not sure if every state is the same though.

Never played on ACR. Is it any good?
 
andosalado

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maybe that is the reason for the decrease of players , that is, the awareness that that activity is not for him.

Yes, maybe, but that is assuming all of this players are not pure recreational ones. I mean, if they are frustrated is because they are trying to become profitable but cannot success even with the huge amount of books, videos, and information available nowadays.
 
Mr_Hand

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I have a coworker that is convinced Trump will push for legalizing weed and online gambling in 2020. The weed thing I don’t care about, but if I can play on Stars again.....
 
andosalado

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I have a coworker that is convinced Trump will push for legalizing weed and online gambling in 2020

Stoned fishes playing on pokerstars :cheers:
 
Rahatis

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Too many nits lately. Maybe it's just my idea.
 
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c0rnBr34d

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I have a coworker that is convinced Trump will push for legalizing weed and online gambling in 2020. The weed thing I don’t care about, but if I can play on Stars again.....
Based on what? He's in the conservative party remember? His party is mostly against both gambling and weed. It would be a pleasant surprise but pretty much the only thing thus far he has worked with the other party on was criminal justice reform, and that was probably only because of his son in law.
Stoned fishes playing on pokerstars :cheers:
LOL would be nice.
Never played on ACR. Is it any good?
I'm probably not the one to ask. I play mostly live cash. I only started back online in April playing ACR freerolls. I logged on to FullTilt to see if my old account was accessible but it wasn't. Also logged onto ignition but never played. Seems fine so far though.
 
Mr_Hand

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I think it’s just speculation. Keep in mind though, Trump was a lifelong Democrat until he saw an opportunity at a power grab. I wouldn’t put anything past him.
 
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jfitzg414

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I think it’s just speculation. Keep in mind though, Trump was a lifelong Democrat until he saw an opportunity at a power grab. I wouldn’t put anything past him.

Trump will do whatever to let him win. I think there may be a better alternative than Trump and will not vote for him on the poker issue.
I hope someone does legalize online poker with some restrictions.
1. Do not let AI programs profile and database your play
2. Provide a monitor program to enforce number 1
3. Identify and restrict BOTS from the tables. ACR actually did this recently not all BOTS but some Russian BOTS
4. Make it nation wide in the US and tax it like real casinos.

IMHO :(
 
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jsh169

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would say depends on where u are playing from and what sites i know the once all of america legalizes online poker again there will be plenty of players also the game evolves every month so in 2012 ppl was not defending say k3 from bb from late raise now ppl are tending to defend wider thats one example of how game evolved



That could easily be a decade from now. That being said there are options.
 
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