Russian hackers

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BILTIZ

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Recently ive seen several unexplainable hands on major sites like pokerstars and gg poker
Most of them were all ins preflop with 57 vs aa and so alike to be won by the big underdog
Well surely this happens but whats intriguing is that all these hands happened with russian players being involved
And then one will say that russians are everywhere now on pokersites
But doesnt this coz us to speculate things the other way i mean with so many russians on pokersites and those guys are known to be alpha hackers
(They hacked the us elections and the pentagon etc...)
Do u think russian hackers have already taken over online poker and what are the major sites doing to prevent this ? What abt bots and Ais
I personally think the darkness in the online poker world is becoming really annoying there must be whistleblowers and explenations otherwise we re becoming atms to these hackers and major poker websites
 
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alien666dj

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These guys just love to play poker and have fun, but some are trying to make some money.
 
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fundiver199

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The next card to come is not determined by the RNG, before the previous street of action is finished. So there is no way for even a hacker or superuser to know, that they can get it in with low equity and "suck out".

The cheating, that has actually happened in poker, was players knowing their opponents hole cards. The last infamous incidence was Mike Postle, who played on the Stones live stream. Knowing his opponents hole cards he was able to make some absurd plays, that good players would normally never make.

Like getting 54o all in preflop in a 3-way pot. Which happened to be profitable, because his opponents both had AK. He did however not know, which cards were going to come, and actually lost the first run of that hand. He only managed to get a profit, because they agreed to run it twice, and then he won the second run.

People, who stack off incorrectly with bad hands in online poker are just gamblers. And you find these in any country, but actually there are not many among russian players in particular. On the contrary a lot of russian players are people, who have studied the game and are at least trying to play well, since their goal is usually to win money.

Moreover its not always a mistake to get it in with 75o, so maybe the russian player actually knew, what he was doing, and you are the one, who have not studied poker theory all that much. If its near the bubble or on the final table, and it folds around to SB, there are situations, where he is supposed to jam any two cards or almost any two cards against BB. You learn this by working with a program like ICMizer.

Another example is, if the effective stack is very short like 3-4BB, and you are closing action in BB. Then you are getting correct pot odds to call with any two cards or almost any two cards, and getting it in with 75o might actually be the correct play. Your opponent wont always have AA, and even when he does, you can still suck out on him.

To sum it up speculations like these are just nonsense, and they distract you from, what actually matter in poker, which is your own decision making. Everyone gets their aces cracked now and then, but this does not even matter, as long as you played the hand correctly.
 
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BILTIZ

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The next card to come is not determined by the RNG, before the previous street of action is finished. So there is no way for even a hacker or superuser to know, that they can get it in with low equity and "suck out".

The cheating, that has actually happened in poker, was players knowing their opponents hole cards. The last infamous incidence was Mike Postle, who played on the Stones live stream. Knowing his opponents hole cards he was able to make some absurd plays, that good players would normally never make.

Like getting 54o all in preflop in a 3-way pot. Which happened to be profitable, because his opponents both had AK. He did however not know, which cards were going to come, and actually lost the first run of that hand. He only managed to get a profit, because they agreed to run it twice, and then he won the second run.

People, who stack off incorrectly with bad hands in online poker are just gamblers. And you find these in any country, but actually there are not many among russian players in particular. On the contrary a lot of russian players are people, who have studied the game and are at least trying to play well, since their goal is usually to win money.

Moreover its not always a mistake to get it in with 75o, so maybe the russian player actually knew, what he was doing, and you are the one, who have not studied poker theory all that much. If its near the bubble or on the final table, and it folds around to SB, there are situations, where he is supposed to jam any two cards or almost any two cards against BB. You learn this by working with a program like ICMizer.

Another example is, if the effective stack is very short like 3-4BB, and you are closing action in BB. Then you are getting correct pot odds to call with any two cards or almost any two cards, and getting it in with 75o might actually be the correct play. Your opponent wont always have AA, and even when he does, you can still suck out on him.

To sum it up speculations like these are just nonsense, and they distract you from, what actually matter in poker, which is your own decision making. Everyone gets their aces cracked now and then, but this does not even matter, as long as you played the hand correctly.


I see you point but i should say to you that i too understand GTO concepts of effective stack and bubble play etc..
however you citing my questions as nonsense and speculations is not an answer for all ur theories about game integrity and RNG are also classified as speculations for over 20 years of online poker now and no science behind these claims was made public

at last i come from a programming background and i know that the negative things that can be true are far easier to achieve than the utopian world your speaking of
finally i really dont care i dont play except for fun anymore but for others out there i only wanted to help them be aware things are not as straightforward as marketing is trying to show them
thank you
 
Poker Orifice

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i only wanted to help them be aware things are not as straightforward as marketing is trying to show them
thank you


How is coming up with an absurd title like 'Russian Hackers' helping anyone?

I might as well start a thread titled "Brazilian Multi-accounters" because I saw some Brazilians playing with similar playing style & playing stats. (therefore they must all be the same person). < absurd
 
dominisantus

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I also feel that it smacks of a “universal conspiracy of Marmons” or something like that, all sorts of conspiracy theories and the like, in Russia, of course, a rather strong programming school, but far from worse it is in China, and even in india, not to mention about Ukraine or the USA.
No election most likely no one broke up, but it’s not for me to judge, I have no facts, as with you, but I can definitely say, that poker security services detect bots periodically, but all that bots can do, it is to play op GTO too, directly crack the algorithm, it seems to me - this is not what is happening.
 
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BILTIZ

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Ahahaha hey hey guys watch the anger i didnt mean to offend anyone when i said russian hackers but still nothing will change my mind i am trouble and uncertain about what s happening in online poker as in all other online games and servers so if any of u guys has a bias or works for the big sites please stop insulting me just to do what uve been doing for the past 20 years which is market a product as perfectly safe when no one with basic computer science knowledge can beleive this anymore
 
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fundiver199

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How is coming up with an absurd title like 'Russian Hackers' helping anyone?

I might as well start a thread titled "Brazilian Multi-accounters" because I saw some Brazilians playing with similar playing style & playing stats. (therefore they must all be the same person). < absurd

Exactly. Its logic like "my grandmother cannot swim, a stone cannot swim = my grandmother must be a stone".
 
gena31

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I can say, in addition to many here, by saying that a lot still depends on the character of the player, it will not be surprising that the Russian player just got tired of it and he went to all-in or decided to try his luck - the Russians have it in their blood, there are a lot of extraordinary actions :)
 
Maiuchi

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I have lived very absurd situations at the table with Russians, the kind that even novices would do, I think it's true, that some program uses based on percentages and probabilities.
In a particular tournament, the same player won me 5 plays all in preflop, allin post, but I won all of them on the river and not only that, all of them with the same card, card number 6, their absurd moves was to accept an all-in with 63 for example and get a straight on the river, then an allin with K6 with a flop that presented A28 (I had AQ in hand) and receiving 6 on the turn and 6 on the river and thus they were 5 times the same, at least suspicious, no there is so much chance with the same card in 30 hands what if there is causality
 
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nmate

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most seem to be overly aggressive at micro stakes at least but i'll never thought hacking lol
 
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bigmack

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I definitely think something fishy is going on. For instance, everybody agrees in the instance where the hacker/insider could see all the other players cards. If this happened before, it is likely to happen again. Now, an even *more* serious exploit (that would be nearly as easy to do) would be for some hacker or company insider to obtain the seed for the RNG (they would have to know how the shuffling algorithm works, but this would be fairly easy for a company insider or an intelligent hacker to deduce). Once you have the seed for the RNG, assuming it is a PRNG which 99.99% of all RNGs are, you will be able to know with certainty what all the cards will be (without even seeing all the cards dealt) based on what cards you are dealt. This includes all the cards the other players have, what cards will come on the flop, turn, *and* river just by knowing this one number.

It is called a *pseudo* random number generator for a reason, after all. I have never seen any evidence produced that these RNGs are truly random (if you have evidence, feel free to post it - the only sites I've read produced zero sources).

My solution is to simply try not to overthink it, and treat any money on these poker sites as play money (I won't put in more than I would be upset to lose). As long as it is cheaper than a movie and helps me play better live poker, I think it is worth it to me. Any profits are just a cherry on top and would just be used to play with a bigger bankroll or cashed out immediately.
 
finaltable1

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Exactly. Its logic like "my grandmother cannot swim, a stone cannot swim = my grandmother must be a stone".


There is a theory that says that all children unconsciously want their parents and grand parents to die. If this theory is correct, then you must edit your post.

It must end with "my grandmother must be a tombstone"
 
finaltable1

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It is called a *pseudo* random number generator for a reason, after all. I have never seen any evidence produced that these RNGs are truly random (if you have evidence, feel free to post it - the only sites I've read produced zero sources).



Hey, But I can show evidences that 100K grtd tourney with 10% rake generates 100K profit for online poker site in like 10 days. For spending some kilowatts and kilobytes. And Hey, there are more evidences that there is no difference for a computer(server) when it hosts a freeroll VS when it hosts $11 buy-in tourney VS $109 buy-in MTT. Who cares about proving something when traffic of those who want to deposit money is huge and you're making couple of millions per day? If you're the poker site - just ignore those weak attempts to ask questions about some sort of proof, truth and honesty...
Big companies will do a lot for 20% profit, but they will do much much more for 200% profit... while here, these nasty poker sites... they're selling most precious kilobytes at the planet and their customers enjoy those pixels at their screens.
 
Poker Orifice

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I definitely think something fishy is going on. For instance, everybody agrees in the instance where the hacker/insider could see all the other players cards. If this happened before, it is likely to happen again. Now, an even *more* serious exploit (that would be nearly as easy to do) would be for some hacker or company insider to obtain the seed for the RNG (they would have to know how the shuffling algorithm works, but this would be fairly easy for a company insider or an intelligent hacker to deduce). Once you have the seed for the RNG, assuming it is a PRNG which 99.99% of all RNGs are, you will be able to know with certainty what all the cards will be (without even seeing all the cards dealt) based on what cards you are dealt. This includes all the cards the other players have, what cards will come on the flop, turn, *and* river just by knowing this one number.


.


& Donald Trump won the election ...
 
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bigmack

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Notice how those in denial never actually produce any evidence? Just an observation...

Also, I never said it is impossible to profit as a good poker player. I'm actually doing fairly well online, but the variance just seems too high to me compared to live. Knowing how seriously easy it is to rig games like this also weighs into my opinion.


Either way, I've made up my mind and it helps me continue playing and practice to become a better player for live poker which is the real money maker.

P.S. I didn't want to make this about politics, but since the subject has changed take a look at https://hereistheevidence.com - some curious information for sure. I think it is good to keep an open mind in all subjects and not assume you are 100% right - you usually aren't.
 
Adi8877

Adi8877

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Ahahaha hey hey guys watch the anger i didnt mean to offend anyone when i said russian hackers but still nothing will change my mind i am trouble and uncertain about what s happening in online poker as in all other online games and servers so if any of u guys has a bias or works for the big sites please stop insulting me just to do what uve been doing for the past 20 years which is market a product as perfectly safe when no one with basic computer science knowledge can beleive this anymore


It is not perfectly safe. Except few big sites, they don't even tell that, even acknowledge the bots, collusion players exist etc. Of course, there are sites whose don't care it at all, they just care about the transparent things, how they sell themselves, and the profit...

What you see, mostly not basic anger, but anger because of 2 things what flew in the mainstream for years, some still.... 1st, they just changed the meaning of the 'russian hackers' (you've choosen it very unfortunate, incorrect) expression's explanation (just read the snowden book...that shows a bit reality), and 2nd the general fool around about it, and whose just don't eat everything what they must listen from all the speakers, 24/7, non-stop, but there is no proof, facts behind it. If someone (or millions) is loud, does not mean he is correct, right, and it is probably, because of some reason. So they have anger, because the stupidity what others have letting themselves get fooled, even get involved, (become a noisy speaker) by the same unexisting fake crap...

And about the RNG and inside things, nobody knows anything, can proof it, so you won't get any answer for it. (Obviously, who knows, won't tell it, as they are involved in it, like in any other aspect in life where money involved, and show me a single thing, where not...)

If I see your example, (it is probably micro limit,too), just in the last 2 days, I got busted in tourneys with AA preflop allin vs K5s and A7o(both had 15+BB, and they called it..)... that happens, and some things are strange, that's true, but if you can't stand these, go play poker live, or don't play, as it is how it is, it won't change...
 
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redmast

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Don't confuse common players with real hackers. You might think that there are no hackers among other nations.
 
barbados

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I doubt there are any hackers here at all. Especially Russian hackers. I think that the owners of poker rooms have their own strategy for attracting new players and for making money.
 
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BILTIZ

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I definitely think something fishy is going on. For instance, everybody agrees in the instance where the hacker/insider could see all the other players cards. If this happened before, it is likely to happen again. Now, an even *more* serious exploit (that would be nearly as easy to do) would be for some hacker or company insider to obtain the seed for the RNG (they would have to know how the shuffling algorithm works, but this would be fairly easy for a company insider or an intelligent hacker to deduce). Once you have the seed for the RNG, assuming it is a PRNG which 99.99% of all RNGs are, you will be able to know with certainty what all the cards will be (without even seeing all the cards dealt) based on what cards you are dealt. This includes all the cards the other players have, what cards will come on the flop, turn, *and* river just by knowing this one number.

It is called a *pseudo* random number generator for a reason, after all. I have never seen any evidence produced that these RNGs are truly random (if you have evidence, feel free to post it - the only sites I've read produced zero sources).

My solution is to simply try not to overthink it, and treat any money on these poker sites as play money (I won't put in more than I would be upset to lose). As long as it is cheaper than a movie and helps me play better live poker, I think it is worth it to me. Any profits are just a cherry on top and would just be used to play with a bigger bankroll or cashed out immediately.


Actually ive also read hundreds of articles claiming a PRNG but never seen one single fact of its existence
If anyone in the community here can help give us more info of it id be more than glad afterall it is time someone really asks for some hard true evidence we all know a seed and an alg are possible but if the P seed is true we need to see facts
 
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