The problem of pocket pairs in online poker

ROman77

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How to learn how to throw off pocket kings if the opponent made an all-in before the flop ? I lose with them in 80% of hands !
 
Nikolay Nakhaev

Nikolay Nakhaev

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How to learn how to throw off pocket kings if the opponent made an all-in before the flop ? I lose with them in 80% of hands !
In certain lines, kK is regarded as a hand that is suitable for all in preflop.
your defeats with it will not be permanent if such a decision with KK you accept knowing already the opponent.
In general, the ability to force yourself to throw off such a hand is one of the elements of the discipline where it does not make sense to risk your chips.
 
Lorpugo

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Never fold kk preflop allin the times you lose to AA will be less than you win vs AK qq or jj
 
ROman77

ROman77

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In certain lines, kK is regarded as a hand that is suitable for all in preflop.
your defeats with it will not be permanent if such a decision with KK you accept knowing already the opponent.
In general, the ability to force yourself to throw off such a hand is one of the elements of the discipline where it does not make sense to risk your chips.
Thanks for the good answer . In social networks VK no one wrote anything adequate, called "crybaby" that's all
 
nenaviju poker

nenaviju poker

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I will never fold pre-flop KK online, even if I lose a few times and play with anything, if you drop KK to wait only AA?
 
Nikolay Nakhaev

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QQ, KK, AA premium hands all the same.
they are not always defeated, but still there are situations at the table when you need to have discipline to part with them if the board is terrible for you and it threatens to a fiasco.
 
kddy

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to fold KK preflop you have to consider many things, like who is the player who climbed all in, at what time of the tournament are you, how much is missing for the bubble, among many more examples.

But usually at least I do not fold KK preflop
 
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sibird

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KK vs. AA

How to learn how to throw off pocket kings if the opponent made an all-in before the flop ? I lose with them in 80% of hands !

If i am first to act and if i got AA, what will i do pre-flop? I will never go all-in. The reason is obvious. I will try to squeeze as much money as i can from the table with this solid hand. I would like to have at least one or two players to pay something in the pot otherwise my AA will be a wastage.

And that is your answer. With KK go all-in if you are next to act. You will be safe.

If someone goes all-in, that means he is holding AK or may be AQ (or a pair lower than yours - which is not important here). These hands depends on flop. Your only threat is A which might appear at flop. And i think you should take that chance.

At the end i must say it is only my opinion and it makes sense to figure out the the situation that way. However, poker is a funny game and lot of things do happen in strange manner.
 
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AG04CAS

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KK second best starting hand....so depends on the player.(nl25/50 n above)..a reg i will 50/50 between a 3bet then call a raise or ship all in...you have to vary - weaker players im shipping.

at micro its a ship all in every day of the week just too strong against this level (nl2/nl5)
 
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There are only two situations where I would fold KK preflop when facing an all in bet: 1. I'm near the bubble and I will definitely get ITM if I play cautiously. 2. I'm really deep stacked and I'm facing an all in from a player who has even more chips than me.

Other than that, KK is a great hand and will win a lot of the times, specially because a lot of people go all in with AK and AQ and, if they miss the Ace (which is very often), you're good to go.
 
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There are so few scenarios where folding KK preflop is the correct play that you'll end up pulling your hair out over what's going to amount to such a small +/-EV change. The odds that you run your kings into aces are so low compared to the other part of the villain's range you'll be getting it in with when you're ahead by a mile (QQ, AK, AQs, maybe JJ, and possibly even 88-TT against players who don't want to play a flop with those middle pairs).

The only times I'm folding KK pre is if there's multiple 3bets/4bets from extremely nitty players, and only in bubble situations or in a satellite seat bubble situation.
 
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Its hard to lay them down. If your up against multiple opponents / bubble dictates or if you have a good read on opponent then laying them down can be the right choice but in most cases its a call. If the cards don't fall in your favor then there is nothing we can do about that. Making the right play at the time is all we can do.
 
K

kdawg71

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The odds of someone having A A if you have K K preflop

The odds of someone having a pocket A's when you have pocket K's is 4/50 x 3/49 = 12/2450 = .0045 = .45% Hmm!!! I take those odds any day of the week.
 
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rigor mortis

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Most times anyone who goes allin pre-flop is trying to frighten others off the pot. Unless he has aces you will win with your kings.
 
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I must say that the majority of my losses when going all-in has been pre-flop with AA-QQ; however I don't think this should make me passive.


When thinking about opportunities to get the chips in:
How many times a week do you get the unbeatable nuts?
How many times does top pair win all-in as the favorite when being vulnerable to a draw?
 
JBGoode

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I must say that the majority of my losses when going all-in has been pre-flop with AA-QQ; however I don't think this should make me passive.


When thinking about opportunities to get the chips in:
How many times a week do you get the unbeatable nuts?
How many times does top pair win all-in as the favorite when being vulnerable to a draw?
I try not to think of it in the prospective. I like the compare ranges and take the best lines possible.... frist step is to always accept the end resualt as is figuring we can not control end resualt.... we can only control how we react to it.... the min we start worrying if we "win or lose" is when we become resaults oriented.... that is a very bad thing when it comes to long term success in poker....

If your not sure if you made the right plan, that's when study time comes in.... review the hands, put ranges into equlab and push the numbers.... it's all about learning the game on the deepest levels.... not about winning and losing.... cause if you understand the game at the deepest levels you will no long care if you "win or lose" because you know you will be profitable long term as long as you are practising good bankroll management.
 
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Queenlimp

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I try not to think of it in the prospective. I like the compare ranges and take the best lines possible.... frist step is to always accept the end resualt as is figuring we can not control end resualt.... we can only control how we react to it.... the min we start worrying if we "win or lose" is when we become resaults oriented.... that is a very bad thing when it comes to long term success in poker....

If your not sure if you made the right plan, that's when study time comes in.... review the hands, put ranges into equlab and push the numbers.... it's all about learning the game on the deepest levels.... not about winning and losing.... cause if you understand the game at the deepest levels you will no long care if you "win or lose" because you know you will be profitable long term as long as you are practising good bankroll management.



I agree. I think you better made my point better with your post. When a hand is a heavy favorite, does the outcome cause someone to question their decision. Very rarely is a hand not vulnerable. When it comes to ranges in freerolls and micro stakes, it appears in my experience, there are many people willing to play any hand at any time regardless of the wager. What range would merit folding aces pre-flop?
 
JBGoode

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I agree. I think you better made my point better with your post. When a hand is a heavy favorite, does the outcome cause someone to question their decision. Very rarely is a hand not vulnerable. When it comes to ranges in freerolls and micro stakes, it appears in my experience, there are many people willing to play any hand at any time regardless of the wager. What range would merit folding aces pre-flop?
Nothing outside of a huge community all in pot would marit this... maybe 4+ way all in where you are covered, nearing the bubble.... I have never folded AA preflop, and outside of trying to exsploit a very agressive player that is OOP have I ever called with them....

Posted about a multiway pot all in with AA just yesterday. Unfortunately I dont have the link for it because I'm typing this on my mobile device, but feel free to look it up.... it might actually help you understand this consept a little more....

As for Free rolls being wide, maniacs, and uprotictable.... yea it's going to be, thus if we want to get better at the game, we cant relay on free rolls to teach us advance tactics.... we need to go into free rolls already having them, so when we do take a unreasonable beat we can recognize it, and not question our profitable plays.
 
ROman77

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Наверное нужно исходить из ситуации, какая идет стадия турнира и размеров стека! К примеру если ответ на олл-ин не грозит вылетом из турнира, то наверное я бы не сбросил.
In these topics it is impossible to apply Russian language ,but in the subject to help Russian-speaking .
 
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It's ok always dicussing strategy but "Gut Feeling" is also a must to perfect. I've been playing at governor of poker 3 online, a free game with no cash prizes. Here is great place to learn that magical "Gut Feeling". Things to look out for are when a player is on fire, Governor of Poker is very well illustrated & has some excellent graphics even showing a player in flames. It doesn't take long before this game gets you laughing, usually within a couple of hands depending on how socialable you are. Hope it helps.
 
llooooooll

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How to learn how to throw off pocket kings if the opponent made an all-in before the flop ? I lose with them in 80% of hands !
I have the same problem,lose somany times with pocket AA or KK
 
takinitSLEAZEE

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So many good responses. Here's a similar scenario w/pkt K's; playing at a final table w/a, not far behind first, 2nd best stack and facing an all-in from the chip leader on the immediate right and 2 stacks poised to go all-in on the left. This is a tank situation, I think? The $-ladder should be the main concern, perhaps? Plus if the big stack should win you move up 2 cashing spots and still maintain 2nd chip-pos. On the other hand if you call and win regardless if the 2 smaller stacks fold then you'll be in 1st which is where, I believe, everybody wants to be. But that raises another question; is being right behind the chip leader at a final table, especially on their left, a better/more comfortable spot than being in 1st? Not as much pressure, plus you can sit back and watch other players get knocked out and ride to a heads-up situation. I like this thread, it's a head scratcher.
 
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ZenGreen

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are we seriously talking about folding KK ever. KK is the problem with pocket pairs in online poker. HMMM I think not. 22 is a much worse problem
 
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I often get jacked up with J/J. Seems like one over card is always pairing your caller.
 
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