Legalization of U.S. online poker??

[Tiltmode1987]

Has anyone heard anything about what the status of the legalization of online poker nationwide is? I don't really understand whats going on with it. So many sites do not allow American players for real money. If there is anyone who knows exactly whats goin on with it please lemme know.

 

[ATL2000]

Amen.

I like ACR but it would be fun to be able to play on pokerstars again. Florida is pushing to get sports betting legalized, so I wonder if we might be the next place to have intrastate online poker.

 

[Sivraj]

Has anyone heard anything about what the status of the legalization of online poker nationwide is? I don't really understand whats going on with it. So many sites do not allow American players for real money. If there is anyone who knows exactly whats goin on with it please lemme know.

Wow great minds do think alike!! I literally was about to come on to this side of the message board and start a thread about the nationwide legalization of online poker!! Beat me to it lol!!

Anyway I don't know as of now but I'm hoping because of the sports betting nation sweeping across the nation that will hopefully open the flood gates of online poker. As of today of the new year my state of Louisiana just legalized sports betting a few months back officially so now we are on the verge of getting draft kings, fanduel, betmgm, etc. Louisiana residents can play online poker from offshore websites such as bovada, ignition, ACR, Betonline, intertops, etc. But I can't get into pokerstars, partypoker, or 888 unless I'm either a New Jersey resident or visiting the state and utilizing there wifi due to geological location technology.

In conclusion all we can do is make the most of our situation. But give it maybe 5-10 years of America legalizing sports betting half of the country up to maybe approximately 25-30 states and we should see from here.

 

[Sivraj]

Amen.

I like ACR but it would be fun to be able to play on Pokerstars again. Florida is pushing to get sports betting legalized, so I wonder if we might be the next place to have intrastate online poker.

I've never played on pokerstars but I heard its really really good. But you can play it if you visit New Jersey and get on one of there wifi locations.

 

[shard406]

legal vote

I think legalization should be passed in all states. It's a good source of revenue from taxes and I think failure to tax gaming is the states fault. We are beyond not passing gambling because of opinion.

 

[mushthebush]

I didn't know it was illegal. How does that make any sense? Is weed more legal than poker? Can you inject poker? What else is illegal over there? Medical care?

I'm genuinely surprised, to be honest. In UK it's even excluded from tax like any other gambling activity, sports betting, trading(in the form of spread betting) so you don't need to even bother telling anyone about your fabulous new job and your millions in winnings, not even the government.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that and can't imagine a single rational reason why it wouldn't be allowed.

 

[DS3]

It's highly unlikely the federal government will play any role in legislation because individual states will always contest the central government imposing their will over states independence.

And therein lies the problem. Progress will be on a state by state basis and as has been shown historically, it will have little to do with who has bricks and mortar casinos in place already (in fact they have provided lobbyists against the online expansion).

Further, the entire argument needs to be more elevated than 'freedom'. Gambling causes problems for many and those politicians who deem themselves morally inclined will always argue that the gambling industry is a predator industry. Even if more states get legislation passed it never appears people are prepared for push back which will inevitable happen at some point. Presently several European countries have been amending laws regarding online poker.

Take a state such as California - there are 62 casinos up and down California. But as far as I am aware passing legislation for online play is no where on the present horizon.

 

[fundiver199]

Presently several European countries have been amending laws regarding online poker.

Generally speaking online poker is now regulated and legal in the vast majority of european countries, or at least those that are part of the EU. One of the last EU countries to introduce laws about online gambling was Holland, but until these laws PokerStars were still operating in Holland, and now dutch people can play on GG Poker instead.

For sure there are some downsides of the regulation. Here in sweden for instance poker sites are not allowed to offer incentives, so I can not recieve rake-back or even play freerolls. There is also a weekly deposit limit of 500$, and I need to set playing time limits, which on 888 Poker can be no more than 12 hours per day.

As an MTT player that is an annoying limitation, since I can not buy into an MTT, that might last longer than my remaining allowed log-on time without risking, that I will be forcefully logged out deep in the money and have to sit-out for the rest of the event. So since this newly introduced limitation I normally refrain from playing a second MTT session on 888 in the afternoon, if I already played one in the morning.

But those limitations are still better than only having access to unregulated sites, as most americans still do, more than 10 years after "Black Friday". And on the upside the fact, that sites need to keep their license to operate, also act as a protection for players. So I hope for americans, that legislation will eventually be passed on a state for state basis, but as you say, its not exactly a fast process.

 

[DS3]

As always, sorry to hear about the limitations you face.

My perspective is a little different than most 'gamblers' as I do believe some need protecting from themselves but the issue will always be measures which are lax and measures which are too heavy handed. Its hard to find a balance.

That said, I am well aware of the political landscape in the US and I doubt there will ever be a time when all 50 states legalize on line poker. Which is of course a shame because as you point out when governments actually get involved in the process of sanctioning/licensing the level of online integrity should be improved.

 

[fundiver199]

My perspective is a little different than most 'gamblers' as I do believe some need protecting from themselves but the issue will always be measures which are lax and measures which are too heavy handed. Its hard to find a balance.

I dont disagree with that, but often the regulations dont really fit poker well. Looking at those here in Sweden, what does a weekly deposit limit really do other than make life difficult for high stakes players to move their money around? Losing 500$ per week is still more than enough to get an average earner into trouble, especially since the amount is per site, and there are 4 different licensed sites to play on. Plus of course all the unlicensed ones like ACR.

As for the play time limitation that is probably completely reasonable for casino players or even poker cash game or SnG players. But as I said already, for MTT players its a bummer, especially when some of the major tournaments might last for 10 hours, and 888 Poker also have satellites running for these.

I can easily see, how someone might accidentally end up playing a satellite for a tournament starting 13 hours later without realising, they will actually not be able to play that tournament to completion should they qualify. This is an 888 Poker specific problem though, since at PokerStars I still have my limit set to 22 hours per day, which if of course essentially the same as no limit.

The ban on incentives probably makes the most sense, since there is no denying, that sites only offer these to make people play more. Its just a bit of a bummer for us swedes then, that sites dont compensate us with lower rake and lower tournament fees. We are essentially paying for incentives given to people in other countries, which is not particularly fair.

And in some instances it becomes almost comical. PokerStars recently celebrated their 20 year anniversary with a series of 20 unique tournaments each of them having a special extra reward added by PokerStars to the winner. Day 2 of some of the events were streamed, and in one of the high roller events the commentators actually mentioned, that there was a swedish player at the final table, and that if he won, the additional reward would not be given. I dont know, if he made it to the heads-up, but if it did, this for sure created a really weird dymanics, that almost begged for the players to make a deal and then collude, so that the non swedish player won the event and the extra price

 

[DS3]

I dont disagree with that, but often the regulations dont really fit poker well.....

Thanks for the time and trouble taken to explain the Swedish situation. Though frustrating for you and Swedes in general, I think it helpful (as well as extremely interesting) for other parties to understand the conditions and limitations people face elsewhere.

It gives everyone a more comprehensive idea of what players could face into the future.

 

[fundiver199]

It gives everyone a more comprehensive idea of what players could face into the future.

Which was exactly the point

 

[Alizona]

America is what we derisively call "The Nanny State". Our government is like a strict parent who won't let her kids outside to play with all the other kids in the neighborhood, and if she catches us sneaking out to do so, we get grounded for the next 3 months.

Sadly, us "old-timers" learned this lesson over a decade ago, when our government took away our freedom and our right to spend our entertainment dollars as we so choose, it happened on "Tax Day", April 15, 2011, which was certainly no coincidence. The problem, as the government sees it, is twofold - for one, some players were trying to hide their winnings and transfers so they wouldn't owe income tax to the government on their profits. And the second problem from the government's perspective is that they don't like it when money is able to freely flow out of the country for reasons they cannot be sure of. And don't mis-understand, I am *NOT* talking about gambling here at all, nor about underage gambling... those are merely distractions. The government openly stated they felt some (who, I don't know, I think they made it all up) were using poker sites to "launder" money, and even worse, they tried to claim it would be an easy way for "terrorists" (again, a made-up fantasy, the "boogey-man") to transfer funding back and forth.

So after all my words here, the bottom line is... we can pretty much forget ever going back to the good old days of global poker, at least in a legal, regulated sense (we can still play on the so-called gray-market sites but we have no legal protections whatsoever). I would welcome legal, regulated and taxed poker, very gladly... but the government obviously doesn't want it and despite all their useless rhetoric, they clearly DO NOT care about our "freedom and liberty". It's all a big bunch of bullsh*t, pardon my language.

The best we can ever hope for is the ability to play poker within our state borders with residents of our state... and even that is a longshot, quite honestly, as evidenced by the fact that only 5 (or maybe 6 now?) states have legalized it and regulated it. Hey, it's their loss too, they lose out on that tax revenue they always seem to need more of each year. Why they willingly forego it? Well, that sorta bolsters my arguments above. They really don't trust it when we can move money around without their oversight, that is what it is all about. The Nanny State. Yuck. They treat us like kids who need punishment for our entire lives, and it sux to realize this truth. As always, it is us honest people who bear the brunt. The dishonest ones still play on the major sites, either using methods to hide their country (VPN, which is illegal per terms and conditions of poker sites so don't try it) or the rich professional players simply fly to canada or mexico and play the big tournaments from outside the country. Lucky them. For the rest of us, we get the ruler across the knuckles. No fun for you, you bad kids! LOL

 

[edenman1]

I wish they would, it would be great to have US players on the tables

 

[Luvepoker]

The US government wont ever regulate it. Its to damn dysfunctional to do what needs to be done. I mean where else do you have millions of players yelling please tax me and there in need of the money and just cant do whats needed to license and regulate.

 

[bnasp2]

Yes, I also wish the goverments would be much less "parenting" all around the globe.

 

[takinitSLEAZEE]

Here's to tax-free home games!

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

A lot of us miss the days of turning on Poke Stars, Full Tilt for or even UBet/Absolute Poker for awhile to play the cash tables from the comfort of their homes or at least watch the crazy high stakes but I'm afraid that time has come and gone. It will never be the same.

There are alternatives sites besides Pstars folks can play for cash in the US now but they're not the same. The games aren't even the same. The knowledge base has gone up so much since Black Friday and the add on analytical stuff people use is crazy. It'll never be the same even if it is brought back.

I would probably prefer playing $1/2 live with folks coming off work and enjoying themselves than someone playing the micro levels online seriously anyway.

 

[ATL2000]

The US government wont ever regulate it. Its to damn dysfunctional to do what needs to be done. I mean where else do you have millions of players yelling please tax me and there in need of the money and just cant do whats needed to license and regulate.

I couldn't agree with this more.

With all the talk of raising taxes to pay for spending bills, I would think that online poker revenue would be right up Washington's alley.

 

[DS3]

First of all, it is a state issue not federal (as in Washington).

Secondly, yes, those against such gambling have ethical and moral objections. Its all well and good stating 'nanny state' and revenue streams but many object to legalized gambling for defined reasons.

Unless and until the gambling industry knows how to make a persuasive argument on moral grounds it will remain an uphill battle. Making vague statements about freedom of choice is not going to hack it I'm afraid. You don't have freedom of choice to ignore red lights etc.

The argument needs to be made that poker is a separate/independent entity to what most believe gambling is - random luck. It clearly has not been made enough to date.

 

[Alizona]

First of all, it is a state issue not federal (as in Washington).

Then why did the Federal Government seize the web domains of poker stars et. al on April 15, 2011, if it is a State issue as you claim it is?

The only logical answer is because they claimed jurisdiction under their role as governing interstate commerce which is part of their constitutional duty and role.

You are correct to say underage gambling concerns are NOT a Federal issue but rather, a States Rights issue. But my point is, that is NOT the reason for Black Friday, it went much deeper than that, to my points about taxation and about money flows across national borders.

So when I rant and rave about 'taking away our freedoms and our rights", I'm not speaking to the minor issue of minors gambling (pun intended)... the States can deal with that, yes indeed... but that is not the issue at hand, and that is not why we remain banned from playing in a global player pool like the rest of the world can still access. They are two very separate issues, the major issue is a Federal commerce issue (which again is why the Feds took action rather than the States), and the minor issue is the State issue of preventing underage gambling. You seem to want to flip it around and make underage the major issue, and my point is that you are indeed wrong on that. I'm not saying it isn't a moral and ethical issue, because it quite clearly is one, who could argue with that?

Hope that helps to clarify my position and statements.

 

[DS3]

Then why did the Federal Government seize the web domains of Poker Stars et. al on April 15, 2011, if it is a State issue as you claim it is?

The only logical answer is because they claimed jurisdiction under their role as governing interstate commerce which is part of their constitutional duty and role.

You are correct to say underage gambling concerns are NOT a Federal issue but rather, a States Rights issue. But my point is, that is NOT the reason for Black Friday, it went much deeper than that, to my points about taxation and about money flows across national borders.

So when I rant and rave about 'taking away our freedoms and our rights", I'm not speaking to the minor issue of minors gambling (pun intended)... the States can deal with that, yes indeed... but that is not the issue at hand, and that is not why we remain banned from playing in a global player pool like the rest of the world can still access. They are two very separate issues, the major issue is a Federal commerce issue (which again is why the Feds took action rather than the States), and the minor issue is the State issue of preventing underage gambling. You seem to want to flip it around and make underage the major issue, and my point is that you are indeed wrong on that. I'm not saying it isn't a moral and ethical issue, because it quite clearly is one, who could argue with that?

Hope that helps to clarify my position and statements.

I thought we were discussing the steps needed to spur the legalization of on line poker here? That is being conducted on a state by state basis and it is highly unlikely the federal government will play any role whatsoever in such legislation as the government has appeared to back away from the issue

What happened on Black Friday under Preet Bharara's direction is an entirely separate matter. It was clumsy and unwarranted but to put it simply, it is now history.

I have not mentioned underage gambling at all. All I have noted is that there is opposition in many states which stems from ethical and moral concerns. I am not religious, nor have investments in bricks and mortar casinos so I can think these objections somewhat ludicrous...but...I am trying to make the point that for several states, such legislation will be an uphill task and people need to come prepared with better arguments.

I already noted California is peppered with casinos, is liberal politically, but still faces opposition to poker on line from numerous parties. Again. I can find that ridiculous but it matter not a jot what I think, it's having enough lobbying clout coupled with persuasive arguments that will win the day.

And to be honest, I just don't think the US gambling industry has been invested in the fight as much as they could and should have been. However, there are some 460 casinos across the US and I presume most are making money for their owners....and I am sure they conduct a lot of lobbying on the down low...but for their own interests.

 

[Luvepoker]

Here's to tax-free home games!

You are legally required to pay taxes on any winning from home games. Sorry but its true. I know and agree with what your probably thinking,

 

[freestocks]

Makes me think of that song...never gonna get it never gonna get it...

 

[Axmanace]

Slowly but surely states are being added.
MI was added last year. though we only have two sites atm - poker stars and Bet MgM (party poker skin)

I personally play at bet MGM. Competition is a little more loose plus I like their interface and 1-2$ MMT tournament offerings better.

Here’s to hoping more sites follow.