I have a question about online poker

J

jrctherake

Rising Star
First off I'm sorry for the long read. Forgive me if you don't like to read but I need some answers. Thanks for your time and much needed advice.
I'm not an experienced poker player compared to most of you by a long shot but I played for little over a year at a local lodge until the game got shut down.
We played one night a week and our games was either $2 / $4 or $5 / $10 no limit holdem depending on which players showed. Our buyin was $200 for 2/4 and $500 for 5/10 game with no rebuy option.
We always played until there was just two people left at table and then those two had the option to chop if their stacks was close or play till one had all. The rules never changed.
I learned a lot from those guys and one lady that played with us ever now and then. But, it seems that almost none of what I learned during that year or so and over $14,000.00 in loses would prepare me for online poker.
I've been playing online now for little over a month and I got to say that there is night and day difference between online and in real life.
Now, for my questions:
1.
Why is it that 50% of table will have pairs very often online when in real life games you may see 4 of 9 players with pairs at same time once a month maybe not that often and thats if the games lasted from hours to all night. Especially when the 4 pairs are AA, KK, QQ, 1010.......I've seen this online so many times its unreal and I've only been playing there a month. I've never seen or heard of this happening in real life games even when talking to people that have played 50 years or longer.
Is it just me or does everyone online have same experience?

2.
I saw more suckouts on my first night of online playing than I have the entire year of in life playing.
Again, is it just me or is this the way it is online?

3.
This question troubles me. It's about the one thing any true-blue poker player hates with a passion.........yes, thats right, cheating.
I've noticed three certain players that play at same table every time. If you see one of them you will see the other two or neither of the three.
My experience with them has been this: when one folds the other two fold. When one pushes the other two push and they all ways sit next to each other.....no seats inbetween them.
For example......this happened last night on 200/400 NL holdem:
Hole cards came out......8 of 9 players just called blinds no rasies.......flop came.......Ad,Kd,10d........First of the three in question checked..........then sitting next to him.......the second of the three checked........then sitting in very next seat the third of the three bet 2k........at that point all but 2 players (not counting the 3 in question) folded and then the first of the three called.........the second of the three raised min...........the third one just called..............the 2 players that stayed in just called..........lol.......then the first of the three reraised the min.............second one reraised...........third one called............one of the 2 that was in folded but one stayed..........now there are 4 players in hand............the three in question and one other....................the 3 in question kept that round and round raising and reraising the min each until they had the one honest player all in.........turn was 6d..........river was Qc............all cards turned over .............LOL.........one of the cheater (to me) had Qd/Jh (flopped str8 and nut draw)......again........LOL........the other 2 cheaters (i think) had 2/8 off.......and 3/7 off........the one honest player had a str8 but was beat out by the flush.
Now, you tell me does anyone in their right mind unless involved in cheating call, raise and reraise after a flop of Ad/Kd/10d until all in with hole cards of 2/8 off and 3/7 off?
I'm pretty sure that all three hands are being played by same person cause they act to fast for them to be on phone or texting between three people.........just no way they could do it that fast.
Now my question............is there any way I can see if a player has more than one email account or if they have more than one account at a particular poker site or anything about their IP address? If so, please explain on how to do this.
I've googles things such as "how to catch an online poker cheat" and lots of other terms but all I get is a bunch of sites wanting to sell things a honest poker player would not purchase or take even if it was free.

Thanks for any and all advice,
Rake
 
Z

Zin

Rock Star
I see the same thing time after time, i don't believe online poker is rigged just programmed to maximize rake for the site.
 
R

RiverOfDreamz

Rock Star
One thing to keep in mind also is the number of hands you see in an average online session may be much more than you're used to seeing at the lodge. Hands are dealt faster, a timeclock keeps people from daydreaming, etc. As to your third question - I don't know. Make notes of when you see this group of players playing, and if you're really suspicious send it to customer support. They can review the hand histories and see if there's a pattern overall.
 
kidkvno1

kidkvno1

Sarah's Pet
Awards
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1. You see more hands pre hour Online then vs live poker. Say 100 for live poker vs 200+ for online poker.

2. see #1

3. If you think someone is cheating, send in a report to the poker site, with the hand#, and table# and the game#
There is noway to know if they are all on the same Email account.
 
J

jrctherake

Rising Star
I see the same thing time after time, i don't believe online poker is rigged just programmed to maximize rake for the site.
I agree about the programming and I'm glad its not just me that notices it. I don't know hardly anyone that plays online. Pretty much everyone I've ever known in real life plays face to face or not at all.
This online stuff is hard to get use to.

One thing to keep in mind also is the number of hands you see in an average online session may be much more than you're used to seeing at the lodge. Hands are dealt faster, a timeclock keeps people from daydreaming, etc. As to your third question - I don't know. Make notes of when you see this group of players playing, and if you're really suspicious send it to customer support. They can review the hand histories and see if there's a pattern overall.
Hmmm, it's funny how I did not think of the hand speed but now I completely understand how 200 hands vs 100 hands would increase the odds of something out of the ordinary happening.
Still, I have to say I played at the lodge for over a year and I remember only one hand where 4 players at table was given pairs as hole cards of 10's or better at same time.
I called a freind that was in poker club and ask him to make sure I'm correct and he said I am. That one hand where several got big pairs was as follows: first player got AA, another player got AA (yes, 2 players had AA), a third player had KK and the fourth player had 10's.
There where 2 more players that called the preflop push. Both was suited and connected below 10.
At the end of the hand there was some pretty funny looks going around the table. The winning hand was hearts flush 7 high that was won by one of the suited/connected players.
That hand was talked about for weeks and weeks.
Thing is only happened once in my year of playing and few of the guys I was playing with had 50+ years in game and I remember them saying they had never saw or heard of such before that day. LOL.......not saying those older more experience players do not have a ton of bad beat stories cause they got a ton of them but nothing like that.
As for the players I suspect of cheating: I will contact support first thing in the morning.
I hope I'm wrong about the cheating but I just do not see how I could be unless they are all three complete idiots and push all in post flop with a/k/10 with hole cards of 2/3 off....lol.....just dont add up. The thing is one of the three always ends up breaking the table most every time.
1. You see more hands pre hour Online then vs live poker. Say 100 for live poker vs 200+ for online poker.

2. see #1

3. If you think someone is cheating, send in a report to the poker site, with the hand#, and table# and the game#
There is noway to know if they are all on the same Email account.
Just like above, yep I see how speed could and does matter on odds of seeing new things but to what extent are we talking?
Like the hand I described above, I saw several hands almost as weird in first night online and a lot of nights there after it seems.
By the end of my playing session almost every time I play online I sometimes think to myself "thats it, I'm not playing this online garbage anymore". Then, LOL...by the next day around lunch time or so I get the itch to play with no game around here anymore and the next thing I know I'm siting at my computer.
Also as stated above I will report them to support.

Thanks guys for your advice.
Maybe I will get use to playing online poker and settle in. I sure hope so cause I really, really miss all the nights of sitting around the poker table.

Rake
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

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1. You see more hands pre hour Online then vs live poker. Say 100 for live poker vs 200+ for online poker.

2. see #1
Curious to how you came up with those numbers? Was that 'Speedy Gonzales' speed-dealin' HeadsUp on the kitchen table? (do the math, that's almost 2hands per min.)
 
R

RiverOfDreamz

Rock Star
Good luck on the transition Rake. It took a bit for me to get the feel of online play, but now its my preference. No parking, dealing with the cage, tipping, dealing with loudmouth drunks trying to look down your shirt, etc. Of course my live play is at a casino, maybe not as nice an environment as your lodge was.
 
domeburglar

domeburglar

Visionary
Good luck on the transition Rake. It took a bit for me to get the feel of online play, but now its my preference. No parking, dealing with the cage, tipping, dealing with loudmouth drunks trying to look down your shirt, etc. Of course my live play is at a casino, maybe not as nice an environment as your lodge was.

Ughhh im always dealing with guys trying to look down my shirt :D

OP down the line youll realize that nothing is "rigged" you can easily see the same sort of hands in live play at the same frequency the cards are just a matter of chance...

Ive gone through nights in the casino where i see crazy hands multiple times with quads over boats, AA vs KK, str8 flushes beat full houses.. Good luck getting use to online... but trust me itll never compare to sitting around an actual poker table for me.. I love online for the poker aspect but Live play still has my heart for the social aspect
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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Two further points.
The majority of online poker players lose money.
It has become apparant to me that a lot of losing players talk themself into believing that online poker is fixed. They would rather use that as a justification for losing than facing up to the reality that they suck at poker.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

Legend
Awards
1
I see the same thing time after time, i don't believe online poker is rigged just programmed to maximize rake for the site.

Well then you think its rigged.......how can you "maximise rake for the site" without rigging??
What an absurd comment.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
GOIVIT

GOIVIT

Rock Star
200/400 NLH, maybe you should play lower stakes until you get the hang of online poker. ;)
 
kidkvno1

kidkvno1

Sarah's Pet
Awards
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Just like above, yep I see how speed could and does matter on odds of seeing new things but to what extent are we talking?
Like the hand I described above, I saw several hands almost as weird in first night online and a lot of nights there after it seems.
By the end of my playing session almost every time I play online I sometimes think to myself "thats it, I'm not playing this online garbage anymore". Then, LOL...by the next day around lunch time or so I get the itch to play with no game around here anymore and the next thing I know I'm siting at my computer.
Also as stated above I will report them to support.

Thanks guys for your advice.
Maybe I will get use to playing online poker and settle in. I sure hope so cause I really, really miss all the nights of sitting around the poker table.

Rake
It took me sometime to get used to playing online even tho i never did play poker to start with. The more you play the less you will take note of bad beats. I built my BRs the hard way, starting from 0.00 and working my way up playing freerolls, then once i had some cash i played SNG's and had a good BR till BF. Remember one thing, if they did play great you would not make any cash. It's best to play ABC poker at 2NL, they are not willing to fold to bluffs.
I do see some odd plays, but most of the time they are new players just starting out and don't know how to play. If you're playing on Starts or Fulltilt you could always look up their screen name in some of the poker tracking sites.
Also starting in 2nl you'll see bad play all of the time vs live min buy-in is 100.00 to 200.00.
I'm sure if i tried live poker it would take me a few games to get used to playing live.

See this thread MicroCrushers Thread!!!!!

Curious to how you came up with those numbers? Was that 'Speedy Gonzales' speed-dealin' HeadsUp on the kitchen table? (do the math, that's almost 2hands per min.)
:eek: Just an odd number, tho if i played a Live HU game i would be playing that fast. :p
Thought the real number is about 20 to 30 hands an hour.
 
cheapseats76

cheapseats76

Rock Star
I have played live and online for many years and have found that the hands you see online happen in live as well. The hand frequency is the reason for this, you are seeing a lot more hands online then you would ever see live. I love sitting at tables and hearing these players claim that this site is rigged when in fact they all must be rigged because I have seen the same beats on carbon, luvin, stars, full tilt, party poker well you get the point. As far as the cheating I would take notes of the players and if you really feel strong that they are cheating then report them to support and let them deal with it. I wish you the best of luck on the felts.
 
BLACKSTACK

BLACKSTACK

Visionary
3. If you think someone is cheating, send in a report to the poker site, with the hand#, and table# and the game#
There is noway to know if they are all on the same Email account.

they cannot be in the same account,maybe same person using different emails but not likely since it would be easy for the network to find out they are cheating,my guess is that its 3 people that have done this for a while, they may not even be cheating, they could be friends joining the same table and if they are cheating it would be by sendind texts or im's, just my ho.
 
dirtyoldog

dirtyoldog

Legend
Awards
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Well then you think its rigged.......how can you "maximise rake for the site" without rigging??
What an absurd comment.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
My thoughts exactly!If its not random its rigged i see donks go all in with 63 os and hit 2 pair vs aces.When they went allin didnt call it.I wont deposit online i play the freerolls and play with my winnings. Ill take my cash to the casino .I like going there having hot waitresses bring me drinks, hangin with the old timers and knowing nobody at the table can see my cards.just my thoughts.nobody tries looking down my shirt if they did i could probably were a sweater or somethin.:p good luck man
 
Bonghead

Bonghead

Enthusiast
I see the same thing time after time, i don't believe online poker is rigged just programmed to maximize rake for the site.

Ummmmm..... you do not believe its rigged... you just think its rigged to maximize rake for the site?? LOL come on... Fixing a system for a reason like maximizing rake ( What Merge does ) which basically sets it up for the worst hands to win every time over and over so you make less and play more IS BEING RIGGED.. What else would you call that? Chance? Come on now. This is why Merge is in such trouble right now. People are sick of it and leaving to go to Lock/Cake Network or ACR. Some sites like Carbon in my opinion are rigged to shit. I have never in my 17 years of poker seen the BS that happens on Merge. Yes I have been playing online for a LONG time. I started when Party Poker was still taking USA players and have been on PS for years and FTP before black Friday. Sites like Merge are a joke. Good thing is that there are not to many anymore because people wise up to the games and just leave unless you are a fish newb and do not know any better.
 
Ducky7

Ducky7

Cardschat Elite
Awards
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Online poker is not rigged.... and anyone who thinks they program it to maximize rake is just coming up with irrational explanations as to why they see more bad beats, you see 1000's more hands online than you do live and will see things you will see online that you haven't live. Someone i know who has played live poker for like 25 years has never seen a royal flush live, i had seen one within a year of playing live poker. Its just how it goes

And was this hand on play money or for real money?
 
Bonghead

Bonghead

Enthusiast
Online poker is not rigged.... and anyone who thinks they program it to maximize rake is just coming up with irrational explanations as to why they see more bad beats, you see 1000's more hands online than you do live and will see things you will see online that you haven't live. Someone i know who has played live poker for like 25 years has never seen a royal flush live, i had seen one within a year of playing live poker. Its just how it goes

And was this hand on play money or for real money?

That I can agree with but here is the thing.. There ARE sites that are fishy.. There was rigged sites in the past or sites that got cheating so it is not out of the question... I know how poker is and guess what.. I do not lose at it. Have not had a losing year since year 3 in poker and been playing enough to have 18 royal flushes total in my career so I have seen a couple hands and know how the game is and when there is something fishy going on. You will almost NEVER see anyone on Merge have over a 10% ROI. I have been told .. oh the competition is stiffer... blah blah .. No. PS has WAY tougher competition then any site even FTP. Yet you seem to find tons of people with ROI 20% and up all the time. I have seen 4 people with ROI over 12% on merge who have played over 1k games. Any other network out there now has the same talent of players and still its more common to have 20% ROI for the pro's. The so called pro's here are sitting at a whopping 8-12% about half as much as any legit site with real traffic. BUT opinions are just that and this is mine from what I saw playing there over 18 months gathered from solid #'s hand histories and just my experience in the game. But I have been known to be wrong from time to time. :p :toilet:
 
J

jasonchilders

Rising Star
is bovada rigged

i really wonder if any of these sites are fairly regulated
 
Blobweird123

Blobweird123

CC's very own Dead Head
Ok biggest leak in your post. How do you see the same 3 players on the tables at bovada??? They are anonymous! Lol thats absurd. Of course you always see player # 1 2 3 4 5 etc!! Lol and as for crazy hands you're seeing 10x t he hands online than in live. Hell I would think in the last month youve prolly taken part in more hands online than your year of live!
 
Jblocher1

Jblocher1

Legend
Well looks to me like those guys/guy is cheating. There is no way to justify the calls and re raises with those terrible hands, report it
 
J

jrctherake

Rising Star
Ok biggest leak in your post. How do you see the same 3 players on the tables at bovada??? They are anonymous! Lol thats absurd. Of course you always see player # 1 2 3 4 5 etc!! Lol and as for crazy hands you're seeing 10x t he hands online than in live. Hell I would think in the last month youve prolly taken part in more hands online than your year of live!

Not only do I not play on "bovada", I had to look it up to make sure what it was. I assumed it was another online poker site and I was correct.

I may give them a go as well if I keep the online gaming up. That is if our poker club can not get the card room back. We will find out by first of year (not much longer to go) if all charges are dropped on our club and lodge or if it will be closed for good.

If our poker lodge is cleared of charges.....LOL....online playing can kiss me good bye. If not, well, I guess I will be an online player like u and everyone else here.

Thanks for at least repeating what everyone else has said about hand frequency etc..

Have a good day.

RAKE
 
J

jrctherake

Rising Star
Well looks to me like those guys/guy is cheating. There is no way to justify the calls and re raises with those terrible hands, report it

My thoughts exactly.

Put online poker out of your mind for a minute. Imagine your setting at a table full of players that you have played with for a month or so and not just ever now and then but ever single hand that one of three certain players called the other two did as well. Now, not only that, when anyone one of those three players raised one of the other three called and the other reraised untill all players that was left was all in............turn........river comes ........cards turn over and one of the three almost always has the nuts but the other two have hands that even an idiot would not play past the flop much less stay in on check raises till river.

Rake
 
domeburglar

domeburglar

Visionary
My thoughts exactly.

Put online poker out of your mind for a minute. Imagine your setting at a table full of players that you have played with for a month or so and not just ever now and then but ever single hand that one of three certain players called the other two did as well. Now, not only that, when anyone one of those three players raised one of the other three called and the other reraised untill all players that was left was all in............turn........river comes ........cards turn over and one of the three almost always has the nuts but the other two have hands that even an idiot would not play past the flop much less stay in on check raises till river.

Rake

If all three of them are going all in preflop.. idk what they are really benefitting.. other than maybe fpp's but i doubt theyre getting alot of callers so what do they split the blinds between them.. that will barely if even cover the rake..

Now if its post flop this is happening than isnt this a dream come true??? Wait till you flop a monster than you get to stack 3 people without worryin about losing
 
J

jrctherake

Rising Star
If all three of them are going all in preflop.. idk what they are really benefitting.. other than maybe fpp's but i doubt theyre getting alot of callers so what do they split the blinds between them.. that will barely if even cover the rake..

Now if its post flop this is happening than isnt this a dream come true??? Wait till you flop a monster than you get to stack 3 people without worryin about losing

Dream come true or nightmare waiting to happen?

I completely agree with ya if the three wait by checking till you build your hand but thats usually not the case.

As I have said they normally slow play the raise preflop. What I mean by slow playing the all in raise preflop is this:

These three do it this way every single time.............the first one just calls the blind the second does the same...........the third raises the least amount possible.............most players at table will call the small raise if they have anykind of hand as long as the raise is not to big................then when it gets back around to first player he only calls the raise...........lol.........but the second player reraises.........again the smallest amount possidbe in order to keep as many as possible in...........then the third player that originaly raised this time he just calls.............well the table is thinking "ok, I will call this one last raise".....lol..........but after the 2 or 3 or somtimes even more that stays has called the reraise.........now the first player is in control again and he reraises ............then the seconc player reraises him............third only calls

I know most players will fold at that point but by then they normally have at least one player that has what he thinks is a great hand (lets say AA, kk, k/q suited and the like)..........is he gonna fold?....nope.......most will not fold AA or kk or qq for that matter especially if the raise has not got close to all in yet and they think ok here comes the flop as soon as this other player calls the last reraise............lol...........but nope.........last player reraises again.........and by the time its the one honest players time to act he has a good protion of his stack invested with aa or kk and like i said most will not fold that. Hell at that point a lot of players (especially if newby) will stay with much weaker hands and these three obvisouly know this and count on it.

I have seen the three lose but it does not happen often. Why? They do not play ever hand. They all three fold fold fold fold fold until one of them has a great hand and at that point they start their little what I call "round-a-bout-check-raise".

And yes, a lot of times especially after the table has caught on to their trick will fold and not get caught up in it.............at that time............poof............all three player leave the table..............you do a find on one of them and guess what? LOL..........the other two are sitting right there with them waiting to do it again and if you watch long enough bam it happens and then poof there gone again.

I did contact support yesterday and told them what I've noticed. The guy said it sounded to him that I was correct but he would have to look at their history and let me know by email.
This morning I got responce and YEP they got banned. He said it appears that it was one person playing not three but 16 accounts. He said that they found were he had made the 16 accounts using something called an IP hider and some other hack program that they was not aware of but found it while digging through their history.
He said even if the person or persons did prove that they are actually different people living in same house that they are still banned from site for life.

They say cheaters never win............well this guy or guys did for a while but it caught up to them.

What kills me is support said they had never had any complaints on them before now. Thats crazy.

I ask him how that could be and he said that most players especially people new to online poker do not know what they are seeing and even the ones that do, most of them just leave the table and do not take time to report.

We honest players need to do all we can to make sure this great game, past time or what ever it is to you clean and fair for all.

Rake
 
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