Should people be allowed to retrieve hands from the muck after verbally surrendering?

[blkmoney12]

Take a look/listen to the video included regarding the question. (it's long but quite interesting)
Player A hit quads on the turn, after exposing his cards to Player B with some chatter - then Player B throws his cards in the muck (with some theatrics apparently). And for whatever reason, the dealer decides to deal the river.

The question is, shouldn't the hand be over once Player B threw his cards in the muck? What do you think?

 

[rock0001]

definitely yes. If a player folds a hand, the hand is automatically won by the opponent, and the dealer's mistake is irrelevant in this case.

 

[Luvepoker]

Once the cards hit the muck that is it. There is no retrieving the cards.

 

[acemenow]

Interesting discussion in the video. Personally I do not see how anyone can lay claim to a hand they through in the well, regardless if it hits the muck or not, the persons action certainly sounds like he through the hand away

 

[kidkvno1]

Once you mucked your hand, it's done, no recall!!

 

[Dhendrixon]

Once the cards are in the muck, those cards are dead. I have learned the hard way to always see they cards at showdown. If they announce they have a hand that beats you make sure to see the cards before you muck a losing hand. Some people will over state their hands hoping you toss a better hand in the muck to win the pot.

Once mucked and no one left in the hand the hand is over.

 

[Polytarp]

Nope. Not at all. Never!!
Once you fall off that tightrope there's no safety net. It's not golf where you can "mulligan."
Standing by your decisions adds character and zest to the game.. otherwise let babies play.
I usually leave at the first opportune moment when these types are at the table I'm at..trouble.

 

[manzanillo53]

The guy tossed his had, he is out, period. You are responsible for your cards and your actions. If the dealer makes a mistake then there are some options.

 

[ivanlt18]

Yeah, if the cards are tossed to the muck it's over, if the dealer didn't read the move correctly and made a mistake, that's another thing.

 

[otiko99]

yes more agroo

 

[abpoker]

I would say, something like 99.99% of the time, you should not be allowed to retrieve your hand from the muck after verbally surrendering. But I have seen some very unique situations in poker. So I could see a crazy scenario, where the dealer made a mistake, and the player verbally surrenders and mucks based on that mistake, but the mistake is identified immediately and just as those cards are being drawn into muck, and the cards are still identifiable, so they are allowed to be retrieved.
I think the analysis of the situation in the video is pretty correct, in that the hand of the player who threw his cards in the well, should be considered a fold.

 

[fishfood80]

If your hand hits the muck at all it should be over. If you flip em over into the muck and they’re exposed than the hand plays itself. But if they’re down and in the middle hand over!

 

[FIERROS]

Once the player threw his cards hand should be over.

 

[Vilgeoforc]

The hand must be stopped. The cards are discarded and the dealer must admit the mistake. If something went differently, then this is a bad casino.

 

[manzanillo53]

In my games at home no, not even just to look at them. If a person says I fold there cards are dead even if they are still holding them, once in the muck no one gets them back. I have a few players that grunt after the flop and reach for mucked cards. That pisses me off especially when I have explained to them many times. If you are not in the hand, you do not comment on the play in any way.

 

[droozy]

if cards hit the deck which is held by the dealer - hand is dead no matter what. Even, if dealer mistakenly takes your cards and put them into the muck = game over.

 

[CallmeFloppy]

Once you muck your hand, its dead. You should not be allowed to retrieve your hand.

Even in my home games, I do not allow players to retrieve their cards.

 

[samuri]

muck

If you want to see the hand call. I dont tink you should see how he plays to benefit your next play with him.

 

[SPANKYSN]

I think the hand should have been dead as soon as he tossed his cards.

 

[Phoenix Wright]

People can try to make you "uphold" your verbal actions (such as you calling verbally without putting chips in), but verbal theoretically means nothing right? Casino cameras capture "actions." Those cameras do not have volume, but this is to protect the player as much as the game itself.

If someone physically took the action of mucking their cards, then the hand should be dead. Plain and simple. If the dealer mistakenly mucked your live hand, then it is usually still considered dead unless you can tell the floor manager what exact cards you had including suits and then THEY retrieve your cards in that rare case. This can be avoided by simply using a cards cap though - even just a single chip over your cards is sufficient to prevent this scenario.

Even though verbal actions mean nothing in concept, I believe that verbal actions should be ethically upheld as well (which is why someone verbally saying "fold" is ethically expected to fold, but technically the hand is still live until they muck their cards).

At least, this is the way I've always interpreted it.

 

[Roger1960]

The easiest way to win, muck your cards wait for the result and then decide if you want to play them. lol

 

[RDHartsoe]

I played in a league that once you said fold that was it. I know a few times people go so upset because the realized that they had mistakenly read their cards. That's why I don't say fold.