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Poker table banter and cross talk: Viable strategy, or unacceptable behavior?

ObbleeXY

ObbleeXY

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That Benger v Kassouf (AA v KK) hand got me pumped up! I would love to play with Kassouf now. But what's the penalty for punching a player? Get's you thrown out & banned? Well, I'll just bring some of my friends to the game. They can do the job. bwahaha :ROFLMAO:
An assault charge is not worth the punch (imo)...would it be worth it for you?
 
Colbefc

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I have never played live poker but enjoy watching most of the banter on TV poker but I must admit that
Hellmuth and Tony G and a few others are too annoying for even me and I have to switch over if they come on, specially
Hellmuch who I consider to be a obnoxious baby.
As for banter on online poker sites I do miss it, chat boxes another thing that most poker sites have decided is not good for their
players or more likely for their rake but even on the sites that do have chat boxes players very rarely use them, I guess they are not
used to playing on sites that have them, just another way that online poker sites are slowly squeezing the enjoyment out of
online poker.
 
DiegoRamos

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William Kassouf rose to notoriety during the 2016 WSOP Main Event for his use of verbal tactics to throw his opponents off balance and constant pushing of rules and boundaries. What is your opinion - is this type of play a valid strategy in live poker, or was Kassouf's behavior just way out of line and bordering on cheating?

People are indeed right to believe that poker is a psychological game, but there is a line that should never be crossed in life, the line of morality.
So, making a psychological horror, which was the case in the video, is immoral.
 
km1n

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Well is valid i think i would never do something like that is inmoral for me, only because he cant match other players in skills so he must do that to have a chance.
 
10gerka

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conversations at a poker table is a good strategy to study your opponent more thoroughly, it is a way to have a good time, between jokes and jokes can become very profitable time.
 
smallfrie

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I have no problem with "talk" of the Kassouf variety at the table, as long as people aren't revealing what they folded while the hand still has action pending, I say let them jabber all they want!
 
thedarkman

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Don't play live anymore but on pokerstars in the small cash tournaments I play you occasionally get a player who spouts things I can't repeat here at usually Eastern European players. When that happens I take screenshots and forward them to Abuse.
 
belladonna05

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Table banter is fine, poker is boring without it, some people take it to new heights like Mr. Kassouf did. I mean they don't call the wsop rule the Kassouf rule for shits and giggles lol
  1. Any Participant who taunts another Participant through theatrics or gestures or engages in any form of inappropriate behavior intended to disrupt other players in the tournament will be subject to penalty in accordance with Rules 39, 102, and 103.
  2. Participant or staff abuse will not be tolerated. A Participant will incur a penalty up to and including disqualification for any abuse towards another Participant or staff member, and the Participant could be asked to leave the property. Repeated etiquette violations, including but not limited to touching another Participant’s cards or chips, body, or clothing, delay of game and excessive chatter will result in penalties.
 
nelomec

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William Kassouf rose to notoriety during the 2016 WSOP Main Event for his use of verbal tactics to throw his opponents off balance and constant pushing of rules and boundaries. What is your opinion - is this type of play a valid strategy in live poker, or was Kassouf's behavior just way out of line and bordering on cheating?

I think his behavior crossed the line, a professional player should not verbally coerce his opponent into making mistakes, in my opinion it was childish
 
Luvart

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Table talking from table talking differs.

Personally I wouldn't be a huge talker at the table anyway because this is my personality. I would like to concentrate on my game, watching hands and getting as much information as I can. But if some people want to discuss specific hand or make small talk with others, I do not have problem provided that they are doing this quietly without distracting me from my game. The bad thing for me is passing the boundaries.

Before Kassouf there were some old school guys like Jamie Gold who used this tactic to distract other players. But I really don't think that this is a tactic that can have a lot of success versus experienced solid players.
 
Toruk Makto

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I believe that any way to remove your opponent from the comfort zone is valid, as long as there is respect and caution so as not to disrespect anyone! If it's in the rule, why not?
 
ZenonBR

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I think that in poker, especially in live tournaments, all players must use common sense, because in all sports there is a rule called fair play, which should be no different in poker, which is a mental sport, talking at the poker table should not be prohibited, but it is a resource that must be used with common sense, one of the examples of players who use this strategy is Daniel Negreanu, who does it in a good-humored way, not coercing them and putting them against the wall, in The case of the video is disproportionate to the event, exceeding the limits of fair play, making its disqualification plausible.

My conclusion is that in cases where this limit is exceeded, the player will be warned about this and the importance of fair play, if he insists on his strategy once warned, his disqualification is valid, as respect is a universal rule for any sport , whether mental or physical.

Healthy jokes are valid.

Fair play concept.
Fair play and respect for others are essential values not only for sport, but for life in society. In sport, the concept of fair play is linked to ethics, that is, practitioners must play in a way that does not purposely harm their opponent.
 
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ronaldonobre

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The best thing is the interaction as long as there is no exaggeration and does not bother the intended person.
I don't like a very quiet table, the game gets boring lol
 
makisaa

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An austere, simple and honest dialogue, in gentle contexts, it is a nice chat that accompanies the game. Now limits can be crossed even in this simple thing. But even this limit crossing can be overcome, or to leave us indifferent. If this behaviour passes limits and is rude or cunning, he may be remarked either by the other players or by the organizers of the game.
 
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valeski 28

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Since I have never played live,I don´t really know how I would react in that situation.I think Kassouf did cross the line in that hand.That man is so annoying.Negreanu is another story.I have never seen any opponent feeling angry at him
 
whiskers77

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I already once had the "luck" to play with Kassouf at one table.
He was my nemesis once in my first bigger live MTT. I dropped out because of him short before the pay-outs
with 3-4BB left and pocket 33. He called my all-in on SB and was lucky with his A5o.
So you can imagine how much I like him. 🤬
This was this damn table with him (me on the right):

Kassouf
I'm not one to judge on the morals of it but it sure can be entertaining. Kassouf and Kabrhel can be particularly so but nightmares to play against that kind of distraction. I'd need headphones and some loud music to over-ride it.

Negreanu can be just as annoying as Kassouf.
Damn, I wished so much I would have taken earphones and music with me.
Actually, I hardly understood him because he was talking so fast, but this permanent talking and the
very loud background noise in this big MTT was pretty distracting.
Does Mr. Kassouf only pick on women?
Actually, I thought the same, because he was picking on the beautiful woman on the left at the table like crazy and bothered her like hell, I think.
No, equal opportunity offender!

Kassouf's shtick is to verbally harass any player and in the process delay the hand and therefore the game until people became exasperated. Anyone is fair game. Kassouf is still around and playing, still using the same tactics with what is actually a really limited vocabulary but, thank god, his notoriety peaked with a short span of days at the WSOP. People know what's coming if they find themselves at at the same table he is not as 'effective' as he was initially.

Nonetheless, to those who run into him, it's still a grind to sit at the table and deal with his routines.
I did not know him before. If I just knew, that such muppets can appear in such MTTs I would have taken my earphones with me. :D

But even if he was bothering like hell, I think it was still not cheating so far. But now I know he does this more often
and going over some lines, I think he should be watched carefully by managers of the casinos.
 
PHX

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It is his strategy and if it works good on him but I don't like it and I would not do it.

In the hand I thought from the time and after the tournament officials got involved and told him to be quiet he was clearly out of line. The hand signals and gestures clearly showed he had no respect for tournament officials and opponent. I hope they gave him a penalty for it. When the tournament officials gives instructions it is best to follow them
 
5TR8 FLUSH

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I know I'm past the date to earn chips, but still would like to give my two cents. I don't believe what Kassouf said, and gestured is cheating. It may be annoying, but not cheating. I understand the woman's tournament in on the line, but if she made it to day 5, she must know what's she doing. Unfortunately the video doesn't show how that hand played out, but pocket Q's is very strong on that board, and a straight(A4 or 46) that late in a tournament is unlikely I think.
 
E

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I already once had the "luck" to play with Kassouf at one table.
He was my nemesis once in my first bigger live MTT. I dropped out because of him short before the pay-outs
with 3-4BB left and pocket 33. He called my all-in on SB and was lucky with his A5o.
So you can imagine how much I like him. 🤬
This was this damn table with him (me on the right):

View attachment 346546

Damn, I wished so much I would have taken earphones and music with me.
Actually, I hardly understood him because he was talking so fast, but this permanent talking and the
very loud background noise in this big MTT was pretty distracting.

Actually, I thought the same, because he was picking on the beautiful woman on the left at the table like crazy and bothered her like hell, I think.

I did not know him before. If I just knew, that such muppets can appear in such MTTs I would have taken my earphones with me. :D

But even if he was bothering like hell, I think it was still not cheating so far. But now I know he does this more often
and going over some lines, I think he should be watched carefully by managers of the casinos.
Wow Isabelle, anoying experience, but great real life story. That fellow truly arogant and anoying. It is possible that once he channeled his nervousenes and stress into that anoying talk. And he continued doing that. He gained psychological edge over some of his opponents. Still, I believe that he also is giving tells by doing that. But he covers them in sheer amount of anoying talking...yuck. I would not call it cheating. It is part of the game. Also he is covered and doing that in the spotlight with many ordinary people. Imagine him doing that in some back room full of hard, shady gays....I don't think that he would talk that much, in that manner, for that long... with all of his teeth.
And as you said Isa, there is real practical way to eliminate his negative energy, we can just use the earphones and he turns into silent waving his hands and rolling his eyes :) :) :)
 
Natta777

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I believe that this is part of the tactics, psychological pressure on the player. Whether this is acceptable or not is decided by the founders of the tournament. I think players need to be prepared for this kind of psychological attack and take measures to protect or respond to such antics of the opponent and in no case lose balance.
 
BOXING71

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Well, at the poker table, banter and cross talk can be as tricky as a bad hand. Some think it's a viable strategy to distract opponents, while others find it as unacceptable as folding pocket aces. But remember, too much chatter might make you the joker of the table. So, tread carefully and let your chips do the talking, not your mouth!
 
hutzpaf

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By talking, you can look for tells on the opponent or fool her like he did now.
However, a certain etiquette should be followed.
A live poker player has to get used to as many situations as possible,
for example get a coach for that if he/she is unsure of himself.
 
Alexey Shley

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It all depends on the opponent's temperament. You can use strategies like procrastination, but if a person is a professional, they should be prepared for any distractions, it's like in football when a team plays away and fans at the stadium try to put pressure on them.
 
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Talking on the table should be allowed, but I find it must be still respected by the other player if one is asking him to shut up for a moment to take a crucial decision.

Here he obviously did not stop to talk even he was requested several times. That he later continues to „talk by hands“ is kind of childish
 
moots

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As a spectator, Kassouf was so enjoyable to watch. However, if I was a player at his table, it probably wouldn't be too nice.

But I think speech play should be allowed.
 
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