Can You Learn Poker Playing Low Stakes?

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DenverChicken

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if you are spending your bank account on micro limits, believe me, you are not even prepared for micro limits, something wrong you are doing!

Have you tried to review your game and yourself, instead of trying to blame the opponent?

Try to adjust your game, and remember, micro limits are no bluff, either you have the best hand and win, or you fold!

GL ;)

Please see reply #13. Then I challenge you to play a session at micro and report back to this thread.
 
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DenverChicken

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Others have said it already, but the simple fact is, if you are unable to beat the worst players in the game, then there is no chance, you are going to be able to beat better players in higher stakes games. Barring a situation, where the rake decline substantially with stakes, higher stakes games are always going to be more difficult to beat not easier.

It’s a common misconception among serious but relatively inexperienced players, that the amount of luck, bad players receive, is just to much for anyone to overcome. But this is basically nonsense. Bad players receive no more good or bad luck than good players, and in the long run they can not overcome math.

What they do is drive variance up a bit, because they fold less, and this mean, they get to showdown more often and realise more of their equity. So where you might win a lot of small pots without showdown against good players, against bad players you will win larger pot on average, but you will also get drawn out on more often.

This can be annoying, but if it puts you on tilt, that is an issue in your own mental game. Using words like “bingo” indicate, that you cant stand the fact, there is a luck element in poker. But this is part of the game, so its something, you need to accept and be at piece with. You will also get lucky sometimes and for instance turn a higher set, when someone flopped a set against your overpair.

Finally its probably not true, that everyone in your games are “idiots”. I have yet to come across any kind of games, where that description fits the entire player population. What you much more commonly find is a mixture of decent serious players AKA “regulars” and some recreational/fish/funplayers whatever you want to call them.

And even the latter are not nessesarely “idiots”. They might have flaws in their game like bad preflop discipline, but that does not mean, they are totally clueless in any aspect of the game. So if you are struggling to beat the games, you play in, maybe part of the reason is, you need to give a bit more respect to your opponents and work on your tilt issues.

With all that being said, how low you select to start can obviously also depend on, how much money you are willing to put at risk and potentially lose. If for instance you have 10.000$, which it would not hurt you to lose on poker, nobody say, that you have to spend endless time playing 1,1$ tournaments before trying anything higher. It is allowed to skip the lowest limits and start a bit higher, as long as you are only playing for money, you can afford to lose. Just don’t expect, that its easier to win at higher limits, or that bad beats and suckouts will never happen.



Please see reply #13. Then I challenge you to play a session at micro and report back to this thread.
 
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ROYALROAD

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Microstakes may be useful for getting the hang of big money in preflop.
 
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DenverChicken

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Thank you all again for the comments and advice.

Update: I took a couple of days off of playing and went back through EVERY hand I have saved for years. TWICE. I picked out a couple of things I started doing recently. I’ve been playing my big hands from position too slow way more than I should. More 3 betting and more multi-barreling. Bigger issue was lack of focus. I got cocky on a big run a couple of months back and started playing more tables than I should with my ADD. I realized I could have caught several opponent mistakes if I was paying more attention to the hand.

Hopefully back on track with a good session going tonight.

Good luck and thanks again!
 
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fundiver199

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Please see reply #13. Then I challenge you to play a session at micro and report back to this thread.

I have played more than a million hands in micro and low stakes games.
 
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fundiver199

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This hand is from my latest session, and its a perfect illustration of, how you beat recreational players in the micros. You put your chips in, when you are likely to have the best hand, and let them donk their stack away. Nothing fancy or complicated, and you dont need to read many poker books to learn this. Just patience and emotional control.

CardsChat Poker Hands Converter
 
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fundiver199

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Its not night, where I live, its early morning, and I am going to work soon. I just played a short session of 4 turbo 50/fiftys on pokerstars, and I cashed in 3 of them. Not that this really matter, since the sample is much to small to mean anything.
 
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DenverChicken

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This hand is from my latest session, and its a perfect illustration of, how you beat recreational players in the micros. You put your chips in, when you are likely to have the best hand, and let them donk their stack away. Nothing fancy or complicated, and you dont need to read many poker books to learn this. Just patience and emotional control.

CardsChat Poker Hands Converter
Great hand, stud. I noticed that wasn’t at micro and wasn’t at all what this post is about.

But we’re all glad you hooks held out.
 
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fundiver199

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Great hand, stud. I noticed that wasn’t at micro and wasn’t at all what this post is about.

A 3,5$ SnG is considered micro by most poker sites. I will also say, that if you are able to deposit at least 200$, there is no need for starting any lower than this.
 
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DenverChicken

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A 3,5$ SnG is considered micro by most poker sites. I will also say, that if you are able to deposit at least 200$, there is no need for starting any lower than this.


$3.50 SnG is not micro. I’d really appreciate your feedback after playing a session at micro.

This post is not intended for whales.

But if you initially deposit $200 should you start at a different level than a $10 initial deposit?.?.?.and if so why?

PS - we’re all still really glad those hooks held up.
 
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fundiver199

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$3.50 SnG is not micro.

PokerStars classify any tournaments up to 5$ as micro. If you want to use a different definition, thats up to you, but it will make it difficult for other people to understand, what you are talking about.


But if you initially deposit $200 should you start at a different level than a $10 initial deposit?.?.?.and if so why?

If you are serious about online poker, I recommend a starting deposit of minimum 100$. If you only start with 10$, you will either not be following reasonable bankroll management, or it will take needlessly long to reach the first milestone of a 1.000$ bankroll, where you can begin to add some low stakes games into your mix.

But if for whatever reason, you are only able to deposit 10$, then you should try to find games, you are bankrolled for, like maybe on Stars the 10c 360 man SnG. If you are able to deposit 100$ or 200$ I would not spend time on such low buyins but start a bit higher like the 1$ 45-180 man, the 1,5$ 90 man or the 3,5$ 6-18 mans.
 
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DenverChicken

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PokerStars classify any tournaments up to 5$ as micro. If you want to use a different definition, thats up to you, but it will make it difficult for other people to understand, what you are talking about.




If you are serious about online poker, I recommend a starting deposit of minimum 100$. If you only start with 10$, you will either not be following reasonable bankroll management, or it will take needlessly long to reach the first milestone of a 1.000$ bankroll, where you can begin to add some low stakes games into your mix.

But if for whatever reason, you are only able to deposit 10$, then you should try to find games, you are bankrolled for, like maybe on Stars the 10c 360 man SnG. If you are able to deposit 100$ or 200$ I would not spend time on such low buyins but start a bit higher like the 1$ 45-180 man, the 1,5$ 90 man or the 3,5$ 6-18 mans.


Again. No one doubts your ability, stud. Maybe this isn’t the thread for you. If you want to go play a session at micro and report back we’re here waiting.

So your advice to THIS THREAD. Is master the micro stakes. But…Deposit at least $100 and avoid playing the micro stakes.

Reply back to the OP or go away.
 
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Aleks75

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I play on microlemites and it also infuriated me earlier that many people do not play as they should.They come in with garbage or I play out of range.I thought that it was impossible to play against them.But then I followed the advice:play your game,and the distance will grow.And this advice helped.)
 
Jason Bralli

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Please see reply #13. Then I challenge you to play a session at micro and report back to this thread.


Challenge accepted!

My comfort zone ranges from 0.50 to 2.50 and my chart speaks for me!

You're wanting to hear words of comfort to ease your losses, but that won't make it profitable.

Learning from mistakes and listening to good advice, coupled with the desire to change in order to win, will make it profitable.
 

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JimTheBadger

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I lost respect for OP when he didn't even know what a Micro is and continues to argue with ppl offering good advice. From seeing your posts you got more problems than your miniscule bankroll. Your mindset sucks
 
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ph_il

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So how did the micro stakes session go tonight?
why are you interested individual sessions? it doesn't matter. one good night at the micros doesn't mean anything, one bad night at the micros doesn't mean anything.

last night, when i played. i did terrible. i had kk < a5 all-in preflop for a 50 bbs pot and lost to a running 4 card flush. got ~20 bbs in with 99 < k7s when they flopped the nut flush. my top set < straight when my opponent open jammed a flopped with air and hit a runner runner gutshot straight. i jammed aks for 12 bbs on the money bubble and ran into aces. i got kk in on the ft bubble and ran into jj, j on the flop.

so, good times. but...what does this any of it mean? nothing. if anything, it says i'm doing pretty well overall with these all-in spots. ak < aa is probably the big hand i got in 'bad' but, it's not even that bad overall.
 
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ph_il

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Challenge accepted!

My comfort zone ranges from 0.50 to 2.50 and my chart speaks for me!

You're wanting to hear words of comfort to ease your losses, but that won't make it profitable.

Learning from mistakes and listening to good advice, coupled with the desire to change in order to win, will make it profitable.
woah, woah, woah $2.50 buy-in? are you crazy? that's not microstakes. i max out a $2.20 buy-ins and even i'm pushing the micro-stakes limit and entering nosebleed territory.

these darn whales and their $2.50 buy-ins, trying to show off in a microstakes thread...
 
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ph_il

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I lost respect for OP when he didn't even know what a Micro is and continues to argue with ppl offering good advice. From seeing your posts you got more problems than your miniscule bankroll. Your mindset sucks
op: i want microstakes advice.

cc: play like this, profit

op: no, not like that.
 
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DenverChicken

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op: i want microstakes advice.

cc: play like this, profit

op: no, not like that.


Thank you for comments. This was not a post looking for advice. This post was intended to discuss the merits of starting at micro stakes or improving your game by going back to micro stakes.
 
Ellvira

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Every book, website, thread, tweet and pamphlet says learn at low stakes and only buy in at a fraction of your bankroll. BUT LOW STAKES POKER IS JUST BINGO. You’re more likely to develop bad habits than improve your game. If you open 4BB from the MP with AKs to get calls from 102o and J6s are you learning? If the 97s out of position calls your +EV c-bet on every street and hits the 2 outer on the river…are you learning?

We’re being taught how to play against knowledgeable opponents. However, the opponents at low stakes are NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE. Like learning how to swim and then being tossed in sand box. Practice they say. Start small they say. Don’t risk too much bankroll they say. I’m sorry. Playing against idiots is NOT PRACTICE. You can NOT build a bankroll at low stakes…you can NOT learn proper poker at low stakes …you just slowly piss away small bankrolls and ride waves of luck…JUST LIKE BINGO
Hi friend, everything you said is correct, let's adjust your teaching a little, if you want to play the way they teach you in the book, play in the CIS
25c / 45
25c / 90
50C / 45 and 50C / 90
you will change your mind, and the book there is no list of what a Beginner should not play,

1. Rebuy
2. Knockou
3. Turbo
4. Hyper-Turbo
in these disciplines there is a lot of variance, play in the cis, as your game will get better, go spoil your nerves in a knockout, Gl
 
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DenverChicken

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why are you interested individual sessions? it doesn't matter. one good night at the micros doesn't mean anything, one bad night at the micros doesn't mean anything.

last night, when i played. i did terrible. i had kk < a5 all-in preflop for a 50 bbs pot and lost to a running 4 card flush. got ~20 bbs in with 99 < k7s when they flopped the nut flush. my top set < straight when my opponent open jammed a flopped with air and hit a runner runner gutshot straight. i jammed aks for 12 bbs on the money bubble and ran into aces. i got kk in on the ft bubble and ran into jj, j on the flop.

so, good times. but...what does this any of it mean? nothing. if anything, it says i'm doing pretty well overall with these all-in spots. ak < aa is probably the big hand i got in 'bad' but, it's not even that bad overall.


I’m interested in the feedback that others have when playing properly at micro stakes. See original post. In my experience, opinions and advice are best given from a place of recent experience and relevant understanding.

Sarcasm aside…do you have anything you want to contribute to this conversation?
 
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ph_il

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I’m interested in the feedback that others have when playing properly at micro stakes. See original post. In my experience, opinions and advice are best given from a place of recent experience and relevant understanding.

Sarcasm aside…do you have anything you want to contribute to this conversation?
individual sessions don't matter, though. recent experience doesn't matter because there are so many things that could have affected your results for that day.

ok, so for my recent experiences, majority of the time i've gotten it good and lost. times i get it bad, i still lose but i still got in with decent equity. conclusion, keep making the same moves. guess my recent experience has been a good one overall, considering the results. yeah, got it in with 2nd best pair preflop and lost to a 4 card flush run out. but hey, that's recent experience. very happy with my play there, though. i lost that hand, but i'm still winning overall.

or, you know, you could listen to players that have put in a ton of volume in the microstakes, have lots of hand examples, and know what they're talking about instead of just wanting players to talk about their most recent game. that's a very skewed way to look at things, especially in poker when individual sessions don't mean anything. for the record, i'm not saying i'm one of the great microstakes players on this site. i just play for fun and i do ok as a casual player. with that said, in the past 35 days, i've played ~130 mtts, made at least 12 final tables, have 3 mtt wins, and am up ~$225+ overall.

so, what's most important, my experience in the last month or the last number of years i've been playing, or the last day i've been playing where i've practically busted out of every mtt and am on a downswing? i did cash in a few to reduce the amount i'm down, but still down over all.

sarcasm aside, i have contributed. a number of members have contributed. what exactly are you looking for? what do you need help with, advice on, etc? you're getting a lot of good advice on here.
 
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fundiver199

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sarcasm aside, i have contributed. a number of members have contributed. what exactly are you looking for? what do you need help with, advice on, etc? you're getting a lot of good advice on here.


I guess, the whole post is basically just a rant, so maybe a moderator should move it to "bad beats and rants" ;)
 
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