When should you play 44 and is it best to shove it all in?

[dlangr]

Hi,

I was wondering and was led to beleive by a commentator on poker that it is best to shove 44 all in if played. What are valid situations to play 44 and when should you shove versus just get in cheap :questionm

Regards,
dlangr

 

[Propane Goat]

There are many more factors that need to be considered to make a decision of how or whether to play 44. For example: position, stack size, tournament or cash game, how many players in the hand, how often the blinds increase if in a tournament, etc. A strategy that just says shove or fold is pretty incomplete.

All of these factors have a huge impact on how you play this hand. These are two typical scenarios that you will run across:

1. You're on the button in a 9-handed table in a tournament that has just started and everyone is 100+ BB deep. Regular tournament, so the blinds are increasing slowly. UTG limps and so do three other players. It's crazy to shove here, you can't win the tournament on the first hand but you can sure lose it. Limping in to set-mine is a good option. I don't like raising here with a bunch of players already in the pot because people often like to limp-call and see flops in the beginning, if the flop comes AKJ or something like that then you're most likely beat.

2. You're at the final table in a tournament, down to 4 players, and you're the short stack with only 3BB left. In nearly every case you're going to shove this hand from any position. For me, due to the stack size in a scenario like this I'm usually going to get it in regardless of what else is going on even if everyone else is already all in. You desperately need some chips here because you already have one foot in the grave.

 

[johnny tigre]

When i get low pocket pairs, i assess the situation first. I will never shove 44 or any low pair preflop. I will see if the flop will come cheap, like you'll just call the BB. And ill just look for a set, if i dont get it on the flop, i'll try the turn again if its cheap or free. If someone bets big and my stack cant afford it i'll fold.
But if i get the set, then you have now the option to shove.
But still its not a sure win situation, you still need to look at all possibilities that could beat you, like a straight or flush draw, or a higher pair that could be a possible FH higher than yours.
In short, you dont have a standard play on any cards.
You will even play AA or KK differently on different situations.

 

[fundiver199]

The general rule for setmining is, that you want to have 20 times your investment left behind for implied odds. So assuming someone raised to 3BB, you want to have an effective stack of at least 60BB against that player in order to setmine. Jamming 44 preflop is only for tournament situations with short stacks.

There are lots of situation, where the best decision with 44 is to simply fold and not enter the pot. In fact if you always folded 22-44, it would probably make very little if any difference to your long term winrate. This is not a strategy, which I recommend, but there are way more poker players, who play 22-44 to often than the opposite.

 

[cartonand]

If you are lucky enough, you can shove anything.

 

[Phoenix Wright]

If you are lucky enough, you can shove anything.

lol - yes I suppose this is true, but it isn't how most good players want to get chips into the pot I like the sense of humor though: shove anything... xD

For the op, ranges is a personal thing that is different for everyone. It is greatly math-based, personality-based and also situational. If you don't feel comfortable making a certain play or including that hand in your range, then you probably shouldn't include it. It is better to lose slight potential equity in select spots you are not comfortable with than to completely mis-play the spot and get into trouble.

A pocket 4 hand preflop is probably a shove at about 10 Big Blinds or less (no ante) and as always, it has less chance of getting called if you are in a later position and less players left to act cover your stack.

Everyone has a different play-style, but if I am not short-stacked, then a pocket 4 hand is one I am usually trying to get to the Flop cheaply with and continue aggressively when I hit a set; I am not a huge fan of set-mining small pocket pairs because they rarely come up, but some players can make it work because they have a different play-style.