Using up timebank near the bubble

pundim

pundim

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Hi everybody, I have a question:

Is it really effective to use all your thinking time (sometimes even the time bank) when the prize bubble is about to blow, we have short stack and we are almost to get in the money, expecting that this extra time will let more hands run in other tables and some other players will get kicked before you? Does that make sense? Do you also use this strategy?

I do that but I don't know if it is worth it and I'd like to what more experienced player think about that. One thing that I know for sure is that the game gets really slow at that time but I don't know if the other players are doing this thinking like me.
 
Alizona

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Yes I do this sometimes, the word for it is "stalling". What you are describing is a perfectly legal and acceptable strategy, this is why we are given time banks, so we can use the time any way we choose to use it. And it is also why they don't give us infinite time banks, because there is a limit to the amount of time you can stall. Once you've used it up, you cannot stall the game any longer, which makes it entirely fair for all players.

If you are short stacked on the money bubble, you should absolutely be stalling and trying to do everything you can possibly do to make the money. This is the essence of poker!!!

Most poker sites today have realized that players stall on the money bubble, which is why almost all sites use "hand-for-hand" play when they get to the bubble. This is the most fair way for a site to do it, so the players who are stalling and slowing the game down cannot gain any advantage over the other players. There is no reason to stall once you enter hand-for-hand play, obviously.
 
Katie Dozier

Katie Dozier

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Most poker sites today have realized that players stall on the money bubble, which is why almost all sites use "hand-for-hand" play when they get to the bubble. This is the most fair way for a site to do it, so the players who are stalling and slowing the game down cannot gain any advantage over the other players. There is no reason to stall once you enter hand-for-hand play, obviously.


This is an important distinction that a lot of players don’t realize!

Op, also keep in mind that in hand-for-hand mode, it doesn’t matter if you get it all in at the same time as a different player in a different hand and both bust—which one cashes and which one of you bubbles will be determined by who had more chips to start the hand (whoever did will be the one that cashes).
 
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fundiver199

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Stalling near the bubble makes sense, when playing hands is generally disadvantageous for us, which is typically the case, if we are a middling stack and have larger stacks to our left, especially if they are aggressive players. Then we are going to get pushed around a lot, if we enter pots, and this is a spot, we generally want to avoid.

If however we have some short stacks to our left, then we can actually bully them, and we have little or no incentive to stall. We also dont gain anything by stalling, if we are so short, that we can not realistically fold to the money. Then we must simply play and hope to pick up some hands, we can go all in with, and try to win some more chips.
 
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SharkFinn

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One thing to think about is that obvious stalling may annoy the big stacks at the table, which could make them more likely to call your steal attempts to "teach you a lesson" which is probably not what you want. This is assuming that you don't just completely shut down at the bubble.
 
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CSLysander

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I am not in favor of stalling. Depending on the tournament, many of the bigger stacks will be playing and some people will be making bold moves. If I am short, then I do not play hands. I have folded many hands that I normally play at this time. I watched someone today play smart on the bubble and triple up. It is about playing the right hands. Play very tight and you can get into the money and past it.
 
MishkaZL

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I think most players use this opportunity. Sometimes, thanks to such actions, you can really get a prize. I think that makes sense.
 
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karl coakley

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I get stalling, and while there is hand for hand, stalling usually starts a few out from the bubble.

I personally would rather see more hands and take my chances. One of the byproducts of stalling is seeing fewer hands and facing larger blinds. It is far better to play tournaments in your bankroll where a minimum cash isn't as important and take more chances earlier to avoid being short on the bubble.
 
armoko

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Usually if you are short then better risk and have a chance to double up. Except if we are talking about big amount which you gonna get if you get in itm even for the last paid place
 
Henriquekbnz

Henriquekbnz

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"the game gets really slow", yep almost everybody who have a short stack are doing the same tactics as you...

And i was doing the same too.but now no more, what i think is ,well i must play to Win ( arrive final table), and this with strategy it will be very difficult to happen, so now i play ...to leave or i Will grow up my stack(stolen blinds and ALL Win in position and good cards) making more confortable to fight for high prizes what is more important
 
pundim

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Thanks everybody for your inputs here
 
Alizona

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Uh oh.

I take back EVERYTHING I said in this post.

Why?

Read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/koi94z/acr_banned_me_no_warning_stole_700/

This is insanity, I cannot believe ACR is banning someone over STALLING.

It really doesn't make any logical sense, so perhaps there is additional information not made public... This is horrible publicity for their site.

For those who don't click on links, I will reproduce the letter sent by ACR:

Greetings from Winning Poker Network.
We regret to inform you that we have confirmed a violation of our Security and Game Integrity Policy: (link to ACR terms and conditions removed)
5. Unethical behavior:
5.5 Stalling: Deliberating delaying the action in a game to gain an advantage over your opponents on different tables from the same tournament
As per our general terms and conditions: (link to ACR terms and conditions removed)
10. TERMINATION: Without prejudice to any other rights of ACR, WPN may immediately and unilaterally terminate this Agreement if you fail to comply with the terms and conditions contained herein or for any other reason or for no reason. In such event, you must destroy all of your copies of the Software. ANY suspicious or criminal activity will be promptly reported to the appropriate authorities. The balance of funds in any User account closed by WPN due to User misconduct, fraud, or collusion may be seized and each such User shall forfeit any and all interest thereto.


You are barred from future play on all internet poker platforms operated by Winning Poker Network. Do not attempt to play on any of these platforms. Any account we detect that you’re using will be closed and all funds within will be confiscated.
Kind Regards,
Game Integrity Team
 
rock0001

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only when you are short stack its a good strategy to stall the game. if you are the chip leader at the table or you have one of the biggest stack at the table you can take advantage and raise with a wider range of hands because almost nobody will be willing to risk their entire stack near the bubble without a strong hand.
 
Tracid

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Personally I think stalling is false economy as you're seeing less hands-per-hour and burning precious time until the blinds go up.

This limits your chances of being dealt cards decent enough to go with as well as the odds you'll have enough chips to have a playable stack if you do win the pot.

If the min cash is more important than anything else, sure, stall into ITM with so few chips that even when you triple up you'll still be short..

Or...

If you want to win tournaments, ideally avoid being short at the bubble in the first place, but when you do find yourself in that situation- snap fold the trash, pray for the goods and snap shove when you get them!

There will be enough muppets to do plenty of stalling on your behalf, don't worry, you certainly don't have to join them! :laugh:
 
Alizona

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Apparently, stalling is included under the section entitled "UNETHICAL BEHAVIOR" on the website for Winning Poker Network (parent of ACR among other sites).

https://www.americascardroom.eu/poker-customer-support/game-integrity/

"5.5 Stalling: Deliberating delaying the action in a game to gain an advantage over your opponents on different tables from the same tournament"

I am absolutely shocked that is placed in the UNETHICAL BEHAVIOR section, because in my humble opinion, it is NOT "unethical behavior" at all.

See my previous post above for more on the story, and realize, the person who posted his complaint on Reddit may not be telling people the entire story here... but if they are, OMG wow...
 
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fundiver199

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Maybe the person posting on Reddit is not as "innocent", as he claim, but for me its an issue, when hard defined "game ethics" are turned into a reason for stealing peoples money. Its not allowed to deliberately delay action, but how can a poker site determine objectively, if its done deliberately or not? Its certainly a muddy grey zone, and for me thats not acceptable. Maybe they can kick him out and say, you are not welcome here any more, because your slow play annoy our other customers, but thats about as much, as I would be willing to accept.

It should be noted also, that the list of possible sanctions given by ACR starts with an email warning and only ends with permanent account closure and confiscation of funds. And frankly for an offense like this, it seems to me, they should absolutely have started with an email warning. And if they did, then presumably this final message would be different. It would then be something like "despite previous warnings we have detected, that you still......"

So I am certainly less likely to ever make a deposit at ACR now, and if I do, I will be very dilligent about only keeping a minimum amount of money on the site. Just like Jonathan Little talked about, both before and after they kicked him out for publicly questioning some ridiculous claim, that money is safer on ACR than in a bank account. Its very obviously not, when something like this can happen :mad::mad::mad:
 
monkey23

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stalling near the bubble when playing hand for hand is absolutely pointless....and a min cash is nothing to write home about either.

your time should me used more fruitfully to stall...if you have to...later on when the pay jumps are more significant.

your time is best used to actually think about important hands with tricky decisions while playing them.
 
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fundiver199

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I started a new thread about the TOS on ACR and the reported incidence with them stealing 700$ from a player, because he stalled action in some MTTs. The reason is, its kind of a separate topic and so important, that people need to pay attention to it, if they have money deposited at ACR.
 
94EXPOS

94EXPOS

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I 100% believe that stalling to make it past the bubble into cash is a legit strategy that makes nothing but sense. If you are short stacked and doubling up will not make a big difference....stall, stall and stall some more. It truly is sickening that ACR would ban a player for this if that is in fact what happened.
 
kraemer

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It's boring but legit...
I understand when some small stacks try
to get ITM to at least min cash...
 
B

bidearm

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i tend to use it this way to i let the clock run down and hopefully more players get eliminated thus putting me in a better position and i know it sucks cause it slows the game down to a crawl but ya gotta do what ya can sometimes.
 
dannywaves

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looking at all these comments is making me wanna use it more when I get close to the money lol
thanks for all the tips!!! (Even though it wasn't my question lmfao):icon_tong
 
Vilgeoforc

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Yes, it definitely makes sense if there are five spots left before the prizes, and I know that the next round of blinds will not gobble up my stack. It is for such cases that I save my timebank.
 
R

ROYALROAD

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It depends on the case.
Ideally, you should not do that and stick to your own method.
However, there are times when We really want to in the money.

In any case, I think it's a short stack, so that's the research.
 
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