Number of Outs

R

rigor mortis

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Has anybody calculated the maximum number of outs playing Omaha Hi Lo. I make it 31, but I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise, 16 for the low pot, 9 for a flush (2 of the 9 will make a straight flush) and 6 for a straight. To me pairs are not worth playing, since they are too low
You are dealt 3 4 of hearts xx. Flop has 2 5 of hearts x, where x is any card, but not a heart
 
R

rigor mortis

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For those of you who agree with the above, I'm sorry to say that the statistics are false,
The number of low outs are correct, But the rest are incorrect, of the nine cards to make a flush four have already been counted in the low outs, similarly for the straight three have been counted. The maximum number of outs are therefor 24.
 
NWPatriot

NWPatriot

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As for outs in Omaha H/L, we have to be careful about whether we are asking about outs to improve our hand or about outs to the nuts. It sounds like you are asking about lo OR hi outs. The three "x" cards are still important, as there may be some backdoor opportunities still as well as plenty of 2-pair and 3-of-a-kind runouts left. Since we are at the flop, there are two cards to come.

This 3h4h has very few nutted hands to hit. a 4 high flush is a long way from the nuts, and your 5 or 6 or even 7 high flush won't be the nuts either. The closest thing you have to any nut type hand is the nut low, which you may end up chopping anyways. So most of the outs here are non-nut outs. This is a very important distinction when considering outs.


Outs to improve our hand:
4 aces give a non-nut 5 hi straight, and a nut low (but possibly a chop)
4 sixes give a non-nut 6 hi straight, and a possible low.
7 remaining hearts give a non-nut flush (easily beat)
3 remaining 7's and 3 remaining 8's provide a possible low
3 remaining 3's and 3 remaining 4's provide a pair (your right, not worth much)
2 remaining non heart x1 and 2 remaining non heart x2 provide a pair (not worth much)

31 outs to improve your hand, but only 4 to a nut low and none to a nut high.

Backdoors:
a 6 AND 7 provides a non-nut 7 hi straight (only count 3 non heart 6/7's here for about a 1% chance - equivalent to 1/2 an out)
a 3 AND another 3 for a non-nut set (a pair on the board provides possible boats for opponents - ~.3%)
a 4 AND another 4 for a non-nut set (~.3%)
a x1 AND another x1 for a non-nut set with non heart outs (~.1%)
a x2 AND another x2 for a non-nut set with non heart outs (~.1%)
A myriad of possible 2 pair runouts (~4.0% for equivalent to about 2 outs)
Don't know what other possibilities there are with the 3 x's.

All in all, there is approximately a 6% chance of backdooring some of these hands, equivalent to about 3 outs.

Interesting question. If I were facing a bet here, I would not feel very good about much of this hand. No nut hands and even our strong hands are vulnerable.

Good luck and God Bless.
 
deputat777

deputat777

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Has anybody calculated the maximum number of outs playing Omaha Hi Lo. I make it 31, but I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise, 16 for the low pot, 9 for a flush (2 of the 9 will make a straight flush) and 6 for a straight. To me pairs are not worth playing, since they are too low
You are dealt 3 4 of hearts xx. Flop has 2 5 of hearts x, where x is any card, but not a heart


Kind of like 24 outs.I am just starting to learn Omaha;)
 
A

aaronsmith123

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For those of you who agree with the above, I'm sorry to say that the statistics are false,
The number of low outs are correct, But the rest are incorrect, of the nine cards to make a flush four have already been counted in the low outs, similarly for the straight three have been counted. The maximum number of outs are therefor 24.


It certainly is more than that.
In Texas Hold Em the max number is 26. In Omaha it has to be more because of more cards.
I can illustrate an example here

4(clubs)4(Spades) vs 8(hearts)9Hearts
Flop and Turn come 6 (hearts) 7(clubs) J (Hearts) J Spades

So far the play with the pair of 4's is ahead but, the river card is coming.
There are 26 cards that make the player with the 8(hearts) 9 (hearts) win

I'll demonstate
any 9 puts him at 99JJ so there are 3 more 9's
any 8 puts him at 88JJ so there are 3 more 8's
any 5 puts him at a straight so there are 4 possible 5's
any 6 puts him at 66JJ with a 9 kicker so there are 3 more 6's
any 7 puts him at 77JJ with a 9 kicker so there are 3 more 7's
any 10 gives him a straight so there are 4 more 10's
if Q of hearts comes it gives him a flush so that is one more out
if K of hearts comes it gives him a flush so that is one more out
if A of hearts comes it gives him a flush so that is one more out
if 2 of hearts comes it gives him a flush so that is one more out
if 3 of hearts comes it gives him a flush so that is one more out
if 4 of hearts comes it gives him a flush so that is one more out

so lets calculate 3+3+4+3+3+4+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 26 outs

Obviously these situations are rare but, they do happen

It is not often that you would have 26 outs.
In Omaha you have 4 cards instead of 2, so there would be even more outs.
I have not figured that one out. I have just figured out the most outs in Texas Hold 'Em
 
A

aaronsmith123

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For those of you who agree with the above, I'm sorry to say that the statistics are false,
The number of low outs are correct, But the rest are incorrect, of the nine cards to make a flush four have already been counted in the low outs, similarly for the straight three have been counted. The maximum number of outs are therefor 24.


It's actually 26
 
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