Mucking Cards on river

[giancarlo93]

Hi,

I have a question and apologies if it might be a 'nubish' question however i have indeed searched online for an answer and while I have found relevant information, I still do not have a definite answer.

Let's say we are on the river and two players (or more, it shouldn't make a difference for this question) are still in the game, and player 1 bets and player 2 calls.

Statement 1: According to official rules (which i read on https://www.wsop.com/poker-games/texas-holdem/rules/), I believe that the winner always has a right to ask to see the losing cards even if they have been mucked.

Statement 2: However, when playing online, most sites allow you (from settings configuration) to muck your cards if you lose.

My ultimate understanding is that as per statement 2, online poker sites (or at least the ones I play on) are going against the official rules (for some reason I am not sure of) and allowing player to always muck their cards.

Whilst as per statement 1, the official rules (i.e. playing live or in any official poker tournament/casino), you are always allowed to see your river's opponent mucked cards if you are the winner.

Am I correct in my assumptions or is there something I am missing?

 

[dino]

one of the rules is "up 2 u", if you want to show/muck your cards, it's your decision, and everyone have to honor it.
Now, if you playing live, you can also ask them to pay you to see your cards, if you want to.

I almost always choose not to show up my cards, so they don't know when I am bluffing or when I do have hand, but, on the other hand, you can always change your tactic and show them pretending you're a nub in poker and you don't have a clue what/how to play, to make them over bet and then you can use it as your advantage...


It's up to you.

 

[kley126]

good morning friend, show your letters is your decision nobody can force you to show them personally sometimes if they are bad letters if I steal some pot this to give some information to the villains maybe next time I do not get paid and putting all their chips in my hands but I recommend that you do not do it very often it is not advisable to show them it is better to leave them in doubt to get caught stealing in a good well and it is you who loses a few chips

 

[JBGoode]

Hi,

I have a question and apologies if it might be a 'nubish' question however i have indeed searched online for an answer and while I have found relevant information, I still do not have a definite answer.

Let's say we are on the river and two players (or more, it shouldn't make a difference for this question) are still in the game, and player 1 bets and player 2 calls.

Statement 1: According to official rules (which i read on https://www.wsop.com/poker-games/texas-holdem/rules/), I believe that the winner always has a right to ask to see the losing cards even if they have been mucked.

Statement 2: However, when playing online, most sites allow you (from settings configuration) to muck your cards if you lose.

My ultimate understanding is that as per statement 2, online poker sites (or at least the ones I play on) are going against the official rules (for some reason I am not sure of) and allowing player to always muck their cards.

Whilst as per statement 1, the official rules (i.e. playing live or in any official poker tournament/casino), you are always allowed to see your river's opponent mucked cards if you are the winner.

Am I correct in my assumptions or is there something I am missing?

So normally whoever is the aggressor on the river has to show thier hand first.... if you are the one calling a river bet, and you dont beat what they show. You can muck.

 

[8bod8]

I'm not familiar with the live etiquete, but for online:
Unless you know what you are doing, it's better to always muck.
(to prevent giving information to your opponent).
As Dino said: when you know what you're doing, you can try to fool your opponents to think you're a nub and show.

 

[damkoMTK]

If you want to see the hand of the opponent you can do so in the "show previous hand" option.
In pokerstars in this option I sow that when all players calls on the river you can see the cards, but if everyone checked then it doesn't always show.

 

[bc2017]

Just discovering Poker Copilot for myself recently and if both players make it to showdown, it will automatically pop up to tell me what my opponent had even if they muck. But usually clicking show previous hand on Pokerstars is fine.

 

[manzanillo53]

All cards must be shown only if all the players are all in.
If someone goes all in or just raises and you fold, then showing cards is your option.
Another note, if you show your cards to one player, then all players have the right to see your cards.

 

[8bod8]

Just discovering Poker Copilot for myself recently and if both players make it to showdown, it will automatically pop up to tell me what my opponent had even if they muck. But usually clicking show previous hand on Pokerstars is fine.

Is this info also in the hand history? or does it only work with 'show previous hand'?

 

[bc2017]

Is this info also in the hand history? or does it only work with 'show previous hand'?

It should be in the hand history as well I believe.

 

[8bod8]

It should be in the hand history as well I believe.

Thanks, I checked for the PS client (windows OS), but it seems it's not in the hand history, as it regularly lists:

<playerID>: mucks hand

 

[fundiver199]

In live poker only a called hand has to be shown, meaning that if you were bluffing and got called, you have to show the bluff. People, who just called on the river, have the right to muck their hand and not show. This is also why, the player, who bet the river or put in the last raise, has to show first.

In online poker all hands, that made it to showdown, can be seen in the hand history, which most poker sites store and let you download or look at later. So actually online poker force players to show more hands not less. I personally think, this makes sense, because it create transparacy and allow players to check, that the best hand was actually rewarded the pot.

If you use a tracker like PT4, it can be set up to always show the mucked cards of other players for a few seconds. This can be seen as yet another benefit of having a HUD running.

 

[giancarlo93]

So normally whoever is the aggressor on the river has to show thier hand first.... if you are the one calling a river bet, and you dont beat what they show. You can muck.

Hey! thanks for the reply!

So, on top of you said, just to confirm, showing the cards or not is based on who the aggressor is rather than who is dealer/small/big ?

 

[JBGoode]

Hey! thanks for the reply!

So, on top of you said, just to confirm, showing the cards or not is based on who the aggressor is rather than who is dealer/small/big ?

It really depends on the house rules.... but normally, and should be the aggressor shows first.

 

[TheDude6622]

So normally whoever is the aggressor on the river has to show thier hand first.... if you are the one calling a river bet, and you dont beat what they show. You can muck.

This is the rule in most live places.

 

[giancarlo93]

In live poker only a called hand has to be shown, meaning that if you were bluffing and got called, you have to show the bluff. People, who just called on the river, have the right to muck their hand and not show. This is also why, the player, who bet the river or put in the last raise, has to show first.

In online poker all hands, that made it to showdown, can be seen in the hand history, which most poker sites store and let you download or look at later. So actually online poker force players to show more hands not less. I personally think, this makes sense, because it create transparacy and allow players to check, that the best hand was actually rewarded the pot.

If you use a tracker like PT4, it can be set up to always show the mucked cards of other players for a few seconds. This can be seen as yet another benefit of having a HUD running.

Hey! Thanks for your reply!

Your first paragraph explains/confirms my long time believe, so i'm happy with that

Regarding your second paragraph, I just checked with Bet365 (on online chat) and they have explicitly advised that the player/s calling the bets on a river (so not the first betting player) can muck their cards and won't be shown in any cards history with respect to what was shown on the table. So, are you sure about this? Is it possible that what you stated is implied to the site that you play rather than across all online poker?

Regarding the PT4 which you mentioned, sounds interesting, however i'm not sure i understood exactly how it works. Is it an independent poker engine or can it be combined with any other sites?