Am I wrong?

M

Murph1969

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 1, 2021
Total posts
124
I hear people talk about being wary of flops like J,10,9 rainbow or three of the same suit and the advice is to check those flops unless you hit it big. I get that those type flops make big hands, but aren’t your decisions easier if you’re the aggressor rather than after a check?
 
E

eetenor

Legend
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Total posts
1,678
Awards
1
I hear people talk about being wary of flops like J,10,9 rainbow or three of the same suit and the advice is to check those flops unless you hit it big. I get that those type flops make big hands, but aren’t your decisions easier if you’re the aggressor rather than after a check?


Thank you for posting.

If our Villains are weak passive then we can be more agg. If our opponents are aggressive and will check raise as bluffs we need to not bet flops that they can represent hands that we cannot call down versus.

The board matters though so 987 in a 3 bet pot is less dangerous than a single raise pot.
765 vs a tight player misses their range often so we can be agg there.

If we have blockers to the nuts like JJ on T98 etc we can also be more agg on flop

Hope this helps
:):)
 
cardplayer52

cardplayer52

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Total posts
1,232
JT9 is scary as it hits so many peoples ranges. On a board like that Im more apt to check esp. if its a multiway pot. The monotone board on the other hand is usually worth bluffing at. No need to make I big bluff either as its unlikely to hit other players.
 
phoenixKK

phoenixKK

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Total posts
126
These flop´s are terrible for me ,I always get knoked out of the tourney trying to bluf.I hate flops like these.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,306
Awards
1
One of the problems with connected boards is, we often have very little equity, if someone hit them, and even if we improve, we have no idea, if our hand is good. Say we C-bet AQ on 987 2-tone, and turn is a Q completing the flush, how confident are we now, that our top pair is the best hand? Not very, because a lot of the hands, that would continue on the flop, are two pair or straights. Or a flushdraw which just got there.

For the same reason if we have KK, we should probably check back for pot control to protect our stack, since our overpair is not strong enough to play a massive pot on a board like this. Even if we have the best hand right now, people can have a million outs against us, if they have a hand like for instance T9 or T8. So usually we want to see a safe turn card like an offsuit 2, and have them check to us, before we start betting for value.
 
M

Murph1969

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 1, 2021
Total posts
124
One of the problems with connected boards is, we often have very little equity, if someone hit them, and even if we improve, we have no idea, if our hand is good. Say we C-bet AQ on 987 2-tone, and turn is a Q completing the flush, how confident are we now, that our top pair is the best hand? Not very, because a lot of the hands, that would continue on the flop, are two pair or straights. Or a flushdraw which just got there.

For the same reason if we have KK, we should probably check back for pot control to protect our stack, since our overpair is not strong enough to play a massive pot on a board like this. Even if we have the best hand right now, people can have a million outs against us, if they have a hand like for instance T9 or T8. So usually we want to see a safe turn card like an offsuit 2, and have them check to us, before we start betting for value.

A check from them shows weakness just like it does from us. Obviously if we get raised we’re not gonna continue
 
E

eetenor

Legend
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Total posts
1,678
Awards
1
A check from them shows weakness just like it does from us. Obviously if we get raised we’re not gonna continue


A check from a player does not mean weakness when they are OOP and the board is coordinated.
A check raise from a player on the same board does not mean we are behind at that point.

A bet call also means very little as our V could be floating us to steal the pot on the turn or river.

Another important factor is how many cards on the turn that put us in jeopardy when we bet and get called.

Example

V BB we have AA in EP

Flop 765 we bet and get called. What turn cards are bad for us?

T9876543- if it is a 2 flush board and we do not hold the A of the flush all the flush cards are bad for us as well. Also V can already have 43 98 and safely call the flop bet as a trap as this is not our range.

If our V is agg skilled they should lead turn then shove river on any of the above turn cards regardless of their holding. If they have AJ with the A of the flush they should lead turn shove river.

The reason they should do this is because you bet flop when the flop hits the smallest part of your EP range. Therefore you capped your range by betting.

You are not wrong with your thinking about betting with some frequency. We can bet 25% pot when we missed the board if our V fold to that sizing. If they never would fold to that sizing then the check back is the better play.

The issue with bet folding is we might be ahead on the flop which means we are throwing away equity when we bet fold.

If we have AhJc and the V has As8d on a 7h6h5c board we have 57% equity but if we are betting then folding 0 equity. Yet the V should be check raising that often.


Hope this helps
:):)
 
Last edited:
1

1nsomn1a

Visionary
Joined
May 24, 2020
Total posts
767
if you constantly bet on such flops, it will be difficult to conclude how your hand stands against the opponents ' hand, and there is a danger of simply losing extra chips if another dangerous card comes out. Of course, you can bet more often in a position, but any raise from an opponent, even a bluff one, will put you over a difficult decision.
 
henriquemaduro

henriquemaduro

Visionary
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Total posts
884
I hear people talk about being wary of flops like J,10,9 rainbow or three of the same suit and the advice is to check those flops unless you hit it big. I get that those type flops make big hands, but aren’t your decisions easier if you’re the aggressor rather than after a check?



But if you get agressive and the villain hit something big or a draw, u could lose a lot of chips, so pay attention and calculated very carefull the agressivity.
 
A

angelamsmith05

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Total posts
381
Thank you for posting.

If our Villains are weak passive then we can be more agg. If our opponents are aggressive and will check raise as bluffs we need to not bet flops that they can represent hands that we cannot call down versus.

The board matters though so 987 in a 3 bet pot is less dangerous than a single raise pot.
765 vs a tight player misses their range often so we can be agg there.

If we have blockers to the nuts like JJ on T98 etc we can also be more agg on flop

Hope this helps
:):)

Very helpful
 
Top