Can you be a "professional" poker player

Jblocher1

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I was arguing with my family about this topic. Given that the definition of professional is that you are paid some sort of salary. Given that poker has an element of luck to it and you are gambling, can you actually be a professional.

It is in my belief that you can be but I need some educated forumers to back me up here. My family argues that since you are not payed a set salary for being skilled in it you can't be a professional. They say no matter how good you are, or how much u make, you will always be an amateur

Thoughts?
 
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Firebird183

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My two cents is, I would love to see someone tell Phil Ivey he's not consider a professional poker player with a current net worth of about 100 million dollars from playing poker.
 
LeeCallaghan

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I can't handle the pressure for emotional for the cards bad beat.:mad: sucks!
 
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WizardRubic

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https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aprofessional&oq=define%3Aprofessional&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58j69i59.3223j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=122&espv=210&q=define:profession&safe=off

profession:
-a paid occupation, esp. one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification.

Search define:profession. Poker players get paid, therefore they are professional.

Edit: I reread your original post, using your dictionary, no you aren't since you're not paid a salary since it's not a fixed amount.
The word has multiple correct meanings.

Same with amateur. If you have a dictionary that uses "a person considered contemptibly inept at a particular activity" as the definition, then you're not an amateur if you're crushing or beating your limit. If the definition is not a professional, then you would be an amateur.

All in all, it doesn't matter. You don't get any benefit by calling your self a professional poker player.

It's like a forum rank, CardsChat Regular. If we used CC's definition, it just means you have posted a certain number of posts. If we defined regular as happening often, then someone with 10k posts who doesn't visit the forum anymore wouldn't be a regular.
 
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Jay65

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I was arguing with my family about this topic. Given that the definition of professional is that you are paid some sort of salary. Given that poker has an element of luck to it and you are gambling, can you actually be a professional.

It is in my belief that you can be but I need some educated forumers to back me up here. My family argues that since you are not payed a set salary for being skilled in it you can't be a professional. They say no matter how good you are, or how much u make, you will always be an amateur

Thoughts?
Poker is about using the luck that you are given every hand and make the best of it.

Sometimes you don't have a lot of luck but you are in a good position to steal a pot.

There is an element of luck in every single thing that happens in life.

"Professional" is a word that has different meaning to many people it appears.

In short, if all you do is play poker and it pays the bills and you're living off of it, you're a pro player.
 
S3mper

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The answer is yes,

Lots of people play poker for an extra income and some play for a living, they eat and sleep in a place under a roof because of poker..

You may not have an exact set monthly income but you can calculate on average how much you can/will make (sure there are swings up and down that can fluctuate this number) just take the limits you play how many BB you are averaging per hour how long you play and how many days you play and Wala! your average monthly income..

Next time your family says you can't be a pro player ask them.. Then how are there pro poker players?

The IRS sure treats poker as a profession...
 
Jblocher1

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My two cents is, I would love to see someone tell Phil Ivey he's not consider a professional poker player with a current net worth of about 100 million dollars from playing poker.

But the thing is.... He can have a losing year. He can run bad for thousands of games. Because Ivey isn't payed a SALARY, or a set amount every year, they say he isn't a professional
 
dj11

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Semantics IMHO.

By definition, the only pro poker players would be shills. They are paid to play regardless of the outcome. Tho even that is stretching the point, they do not get paid a salary, only winnings above some predefined level.

I would agree there are many players who are supporting themselves, many even lavishly, by playing poker as their sole occupation. But they are not getting payed in the sense we want.

Players are more correctly considered entrepreneurs.
 
S3mper

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Semantics IMHO.

By definition, the only pro poker players would be shills. They are paid to play regardless of the outcome. Tho even that is stretching the point, they do not get paid a salary, only winnings above some predefined level.

I would agree there are many players who are supporting themselves, many even lavishly, by playing poker as their sole occupation. But they are not getting payed in the sense we want.

Players are more correctly considered entrepreneurs.

I like that so I support it.
 
Kenzie 96

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Semantics IMHO.

By definition, the only pro poker players would be shills. They are paid to play regardless of the outcome. Tho even that is stretching the point, they do not get paid a salary, only winnings above some predefined level.

I would agree there are many players who are supporting themselves, many even lavishly, by playing poker as their sole occupation. But they are not getting payed in the sense we want.

Players are more correctly considered entrepreneurs.[/







Well said, dj, but I suspect that OP had lost this argument before it began.
 
Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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Semantics IMHO.

By definition, the only pro poker players would be shills. They are paid to play regardless of the outcome. Tho even that is stretching the point, they do not get paid a salary, only winnings above some predefined level.

I would agree there are many players who are supporting themselves, many even lavishly, by playing poker as their sole occupation. But they are not getting payed in the sense we want.

Players are more correctly considered entrepreneurs.[/







Well said, dj, but I suspect that OP had lost this argument before it began.

Well this wasn't so much me trying to prove I'm right as me trying to educate myself lol. I couldn't care less about the argument I have with my family, these same people think the game is entirely luck and you can't be a "good" player lol. Plus I figured it would be an interesting topic to talk about :)
 
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Firebird183

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Originally Posted by Jblocher1
But the thing is.... He can have a losing year. He can run bad for thousands of games. Because Ivey isn't payed a SALARY, or a set amount every year, they say he isn't a professional
Yea but if you are good enough you will make more money then you lose, or make money in the long run. But I will be honest I'm not the best person to take advice from because I'm fairly new to the poker scene and currently learning as much as I can, all I'm doing is adding my two cents on the topic.
 
BigCaliber

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Professional or sportsperson I dont think so.

:toilet: :toilet: :toilet:
I was arguing with my family about this topic. Given that the definition of professional is that you are paid some sort of salary. Given that poker has an element of luck to it and you are gambling, can you actually be a professional.

It is in my belief that you can be but I need some educated forumers to back me up here. My family argues that since you are not payed a set salary for being skilled in it you can't be a professional. They say no matter how good you are, or how much u make, you will always be an amateur

Thoughts?
 
horizon12

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There are three simple rules and you need to think
1. Work should not take more than eight hours a day.
2. Work should not interfere with my personal life, my family.
3. Work should not bring negative emotions than positive.
From the foregoing, it is logical to get that poker can not be work.
Although there is an exception to the rule, but these are isolated cases, that we could combine family and poker.
Discussion can be long, but the professional poker and family is always a contradiction. Even if poker and makes money, money - it is not important in life.
 
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Mr Sandbag

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There are three simple rules and you need to think
1. Work should not take more than eight hours a day.
2. Work should not interfere with my personal life, my family.
3. Work should not bring negative emotions than positive.
From the foregoing, it is logical to get that poker can not be work.
Although there is an exception to the rule, but these are isolated cases, that we could combine family and poker.
Discussion can be long, but the professional poker and family is always a contradiction. Even if poker and makes money, money - it is not important in life.

Most ridiculous way to determine if something is considered a job I've ever heard.
 
newbie in training

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Many people hate their job

Many jobs interfere with peoples lives like moving

And a good amout of the jobs are more than 8 hours

Just thought I should through in the obvious that that makes no sense

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loafes

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Ask them if a salesman who works off commission, or any worker who relies on commission is a professional. Ask them if a day trader (stock markets etc) is s professional and ask them if they think a business owner who although pay themselves a salary, its a salaray that is entirely dependant on weather they make profit tat week or whatever it is. Ask your family if they consider them to be a professional businessman.

If they say that those "professions" are those of professionals then they have the answer and you move on. If they say that although resectable they aren't professionals by their definition then agree with them and move on. If they are unwilling to accept the argument or see no comparison between these jobs and poker then forget about it and move on.
 
rock0001

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Of course you can, assuming you are a long term winning player, and you have lots of savings which are extremely necessary after a long downswing. It would be better for you to keep another source of income because if you failed as a poker player you can end up losing all the money so having a back up will prevent you from getting broke in the long run.
 
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spstevens

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Splitting hairs when you require a salary to be a professional , I have made no wages or salary for over 20 years and yet I feed my family and self in my profession.
 
SANDYHOOKER KY

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Dang guys, i hear this a lot, in the first place, the majority of people automatically ASSUME professional means WINNING, it does not. The term simply means any one who derives most or all of their income from playing poker. In any type of profession you can be eating caviar one day, and spam in a can the next. Gambling is the best example of this. You can be a "professional" and lose your shirt or win big, and still be considered a professional in that context. The term has become erroneously tied to "being the best". Expert would be more suitable in describing a very good and consistent winner.
 
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jj20002

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is it michael riess a professional player?

the difintion of a professional player vary from people,

for instance, if you prepare yourself and in a long run, let say a calenar year and you can make a money enough similar to the one you earn as a professional, like an engineer or a doctor, then you are a professional,

it´s like a other sports if you are a basketballer and you earn enough money to live you are a profesinal if you don´t then you need tochoose another profesion to live,

so if you lose money in a calenar year then you are not a professional (unless the years before you earned money enough to afford a bad year)

so you think michael riess will become a engineer or a doctor, probably yes, but my guess here, is that he is going to become a pokr pro, because he already won more money of what he will earn in any other profession
 
blackplanet

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Damn you guys were pretty rough with Horizon. But I had a good laught I can't lie.
 
newbie in training

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Well a professional is good at what he/she does so theyve got to be good at it even if uour a professional gambler youve got to be good at it did u know that you can actually make black jack +ev but the majority arent professionals they are drunks

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Aces2w1n

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There is some sort of evidence lately though that the field is toughening up and even the poker pro's are losing money now. I think the poker world is less profitable nowadays and more of a grind as opposed to 5-10yrs ago +
 
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