WSOP ME Final Table to be delayed...

[nevadanick]

Seems to me this is about nothing but the money, and NOT the money going to players.

Forget 'it's good for players' crapolla. It's media dollars, Vegas gaming industry dollars, ancillary provider dollars, sponsorship dollars, coaching dollars, staking dollars, promotional dollars - and NOTHING about poker. I guess you could even throw in the future of sportbook betting. You can almost bet that there will be (or may already be) efforts to put poker final table results on sportbooks worldwide.

At least for my thinking, this can be related to any event, personal or public, that ends in an anti-climatic status. I'm sure you can think of many examples, but the crux is like.... the 3 minute man. He pumps for 2min, 58 secs and the final 2 seconds is postponed, and given to someone else to finish. Buy your ticket for the Superbowl with the knowledge that it is only good for the first 58 minutes of play. The final two-minute warning will signal the end of play for 4 months.... and across the bigscreen on the field will flash ... 'to be continued....'

Daniel's early support of this surprises me, in a way. But you can also bet (maybe through a sportbook, hehe) that he hopes he will be 'training or coaching' one of the final tablers. When it is unlikely that 9 pros will make it to that magic table, what better way to get a piece of the big pie? This runs my reply full circle and we're back to - money - NOT poker.

 

[AlexeiVronsky]

The worst part in my opinion is that you've paid 10k to enter, everyone else gets paid but you within a couple weeks, and you've got to wait 117 days to get your money because you did better. Are they going to be adding interest to the prize money for those 117 days, 'cause that'd be a hefty sum of cash. I'm sure for that amount of money over 117 days you could be making 3-10% off it with hedge funds before you have to pay a lot of it in taxes. And it shouldn't take you 4 months to get sponsored unless you want to have more patches on your clothes than nascar drivers. There's going to be a lot of unusual and different play at the final table I imagine, as people are going to be looking for ways to exploit their opponents play after they've had months to analyze it, and in the meantime, people have worked with coaches for months to fix their leaks and to counterexploit the probable exploitation. I do think the players who were running especially well will lose a lot of momentum, the game's memory is going to be a bit stale and basically against different opponents with the intense study most of these people are going to be putting in it's going to be a radically different environment than they remember.

 

[OzExorcist]

The worst part in my opinion is that you've paid 10k to enter, everyone else gets paid but you within a couple weeks, and you've got to wait 117 days to get your money because you did better.

That bit they've at least got right - according to the release, everyone will get paid 9th place money as soon as they get down to nine players, then the rest of the money will be paid out when they finish.

 

[massimo]

I like a gap idea (but not 4 months... waaay tooo long) because there will be additional coverage of the final table and it should bring more exposure to the game. It could like the Super Bowl coverage with a day of interviews of the final table players and other pieces leading up to the final table play. I think the gap should be less than 1 week though. 4 months is ridiculous.

 

[zachvac]

The worst part in my opinion is that you've paid 10k to enter, everyone else gets paid but you within a couple weeks, and you've got to wait 117 days to get your money because you did better. Are they going to be adding interest to the prize money for those 117 days, 'cause that'd be a hefty sum of cash. I'm sure for that amount of money over 117 days you could be making 3-10% off it with hedge funds before you have to pay a lot of it in taxes. And it shouldn't take you 4 months to get sponsored unless you want to have more patches on your clothes than nascar drivers. There's going to be a lot of unusual and different play at the final table I imagine, as people are going to be looking for ways to exploit their opponents play after they've had months to analyze it, and in the meantime, people have worked with coaches for months to fix their leaks and to counterexploit the probable exploitation. I do think the players who were running especially well will lose a lot of momentum, the game's memory is going to be a bit stale and basically against different opponents with the intense study most of these people are going to be putting in it's going to be a radically different environment than they remember.

you're kidding right? Lose momentum?

 

[AlexeiVronsky]

That bit they've at least got right - according to the release, everyone will get paid 9th place money as soon as they get down to nine players, then the rest of the money will be paid out when they finish.

Didn't see that part, so the 9th place finisher gains an advantage since he gets more sponsorship deals, even though he won't win any more at the tournament, but the other 8 players are still essentially losing some money from the prize pool as they have 117 less days to use it. The total sum of the sponsorships are likely to outweigh the difference, but that pretty much requires you to sell yourself to these companies to make your money back. I'm more of the school that if you earned your money you should get your money to use. Isn't that why they have those piles of cash, so you can take your cash and go? (even though most people ask for checks)

 

[GunslingerZ]

I think this could be good for poker.

First off, you have to realize that every sport evolves. They make rule changes, some major, some minor. Nothing should be set in stone for the rest of time, or the world and it's modern advances will pass it up. Look at what the wsop ME was in 1971, and look at it today. It is the same thing? It's not even close. It will be radically different in 40 more years. Maybe this change won't work, and they will change it back. But they're trying something that might generate more interest.

Which leads to my next point, which is about poker itself. Yes, a major part of this decision is just about money and marketing and capitalization. But what all this exposure will also do is help legitimize the sport. Getting more viewers, and more people interested in the players who make the final table, can be a HUGE step towards making the general public accept poker, and hopefully, online poker, as a game with more skill involved then maybe they previously thought. I hear the arguments that this isn't the "true" test of the 2-week grind for the main event winner. And that sponsorships or coaching will "change" what the ME final table has been. But I think those changes will be minor compared to the possible great effects this can have on the industry as a whole. Plus I think the most skilled player will still have the best chance of winning.

But truely no one here will probaly ever be affected by this decision (but if you are affected then more power to you.)

This is where I completely disagree!!!

A rule change in any other sport doesn't affect me. But this one can lead to MORE amateurs watching and saying, hey I can play that game. It can lead to LEGALIZING online poker. It can lead to MORE donkeys coming to my casino or depositing on my poker site, which will lead to money in MY WALLET.

 

[switch0723]

Great idea on two conditions

1. Every player at the final table must receive extensive coaching and must have scouted the players to the maximum that they can

2. Stack sizes of each player are multiplied by something like 10, although that alters entire structure of tourny, it would provide deep stacked final table poker.

Therefore everyone will be deep stacked and be playing at the best of their ability, thus improving the chance of the best player at the table winning

 

[beardyian]

I still think this whole idea is absolutley frickin stupid.

 

[Ranny]

If they are making this change, then they should make satellites to join.

The main event split into 9 or possibly 8 (runners up into a play off) events with a better level format.

Each winner gets a certain amount, with residue going to 'World Champion' final table fund.

Longer lasting 500 player satellites will give better players more time, so we could end up with a true world championship as against an equivilant turbo on stars.

I'm playing a smaller buy in event the same as Rob but in all honesty I wouldn't want to play the main event as it stands.

Plus the main event should be geared to suit the better players, it is the world championship after all.

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

you're kidding right? Lose momentum?

I'm positive you've heard of tilt. It can last a few days and if its bad enough can be to someone's advantage, especially a pro vs amateur. Give me 117 days, and I will have a clear mind and plan.

How about the Main Event is just cancelled (there can still be a 10K hold'em buyin) but instead the main event is all the bracelet winners from that years WSOP. Dealer's choice from HORSE, and your chip stack can be multiplied by however many bracelets you won that year.

 

[vanquish]

since we're on this topic, let's play the super bowl in july, too

 

[OzExorcist]

How about the Main Event is just cancelled (there can still be a 10K hold'em buyin) but instead the main event is all the bracelet winners from that years WSOP.

Isn't that kinda the idea of the Tournament of Champions?

 

[smd173]

When I first read about this today, I was outraged. Although reading through this thread there are some very good arguments on both sides of the coin.

One thing I disagree with is that this move is bad for the pros. I think that while an amateur could improve vastly in 4 months time, the pro is going to pick up so much more from watching the broadcasts that they will be way better prepared on November 9th. Make no mistake about it, the WSOP Players Advisory Council is all about making things better for the pros under the guise of it being good for all. They are going to make out the best out of this. I bet they are even hoping that people read about this, become so enraged that they don't play the ME, thus shrinking the field and making it a smaller field (better for the pros). Next stop is a $20K buy in to weed the field out even more.

I would be very surprised if any of the final 9 are able to obtain sponorships outside of the world of poker (PS, FT, etc.). While the pros hope that they will be decked out like NASCAR racers with Coke and McDonalds patches next to their FullTilt logos, I don't know that a 4 month break will make this a definite reality.

I think Rob was the one that brought up the fact that this is being announced 2 months before the start of the ME. That is the most appaling aspect of this whole announcement. The WSOP schedule came out in January. This should have been announced then or pushed off until 2009.

If this change does in fact stick, then the WSOP should definitely split into regionals like the NCAA basketball tournament. This way it would reduce travel for most players. You'd have a East Coast winner from Atlantic City, Southern Regional winner from New Orleans, Midwest winner from Harrah's Indiana, and a West Coast winner from Rincon and Las Vegas.

 

[smd173]

Isn't that kinda the idea of the Tournament of Champions?

The TOC has never had that year's bracelet winners. They have had the WSOP Circuit winners plus the final table participants from the previous year.

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

If this change does in fact stick, then the WSOP should definitely split into regionals like the NCAA basketball tournament. This way it would reduce travel for most players. You'd have a East Coast winner from Atlantic City, Southern Regional winner from New Orleans, Midwest winner from Harrah's Indiana, and a West Coast winner from Rincon and Las Vegas.

So it would be for Americans only?

 

[The Shrog]

Didn't the "Poker Boom" start with Moneymaker's win in 2003...followed by the cut back of online entries and a smaller field in 2007 than in 2006...and now they're trying to get MORE people into the game?

 

[iraisejj]

I really hate this format. You play for seven days make it to the final table and have to wait three months to play the final table. The WSOP and ESPN is trying to make extra money. This does benefit a pro if he or she makes the final table but it will be interesting

 

[nevadanick]

since we're on this topic, let's play the super bowl in july, too

Like I said earlier, play the Superbowl on time, til the 4th quarter 2 minute warning. Then come back and play the last 2 minutes in July.

Oh yeah, BTW, all the ticket holders for the Superbowl have to buy new tickets for the July event.

 

[vanquish]

Like I said earlier, play the Superbowl on time, til the 4th quarter 2 minute warning. Then come back and play the last 2 minutes in July.

Oh yeah, BTW, all the ticket holders for the Superbowl have to buy new tickets for the July event.

and have the last 2 minutes of the super bowl be a game of beer pong

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

I don't see how anyone on either side can get really worked up about this. My biggest beef with the idea is that I really can't see any point to it. Sure, I can't see any huge reason to oppose the idea, but the status quo was just fine imo.

Will it even make more money for TV? Sure, they have three months or however long it is to advertise and try and pull in viewers, but many people will lose the WSOP 'fever' in the interim and find themselves not bothered, especially if there are no big names at the FT.

The "but some of the players might get coaching!" point is pretty moot, as it's an option open to everyone and therefore not placing any individual at an inherent disadvantage. Some players might have received coaching before the event - do we think that all entrants should be given a free Cardrunners membership before the event or something to balance things out?

I do have to admit that I look forward to the story of the guy who final tabled the WSOP, stayed in Vegas for the interim, needed to finish third to break even because he'd blown all his money and then some, and then won the thing.

 

[smd173]

So it would be for Americans only?

No, of course not. Just that the logistics of it could be that way. Obviously there could be a European regional as well.

 

[DuaneK]

I agree with alien on must of his points. CFPOKER brought up a point that would effect the amateur players. One of the biggest things it will help the older players. I am 70 and know I can’t concentrate for long period of time. Dan Herrington has said that is a problem for him on the WPT But he still kicks there ass. Most people don’t like change. This is just my thoughts. Poker is a great game with or without the WSOP.
Don’t outlaw poker or Beer

 

[Ranger390]

I knew that I could count on Mike the Mouth to "tell it like it is!" Listen to his Mouthpiece show at Cardplayer.com.

 

[aliengenius]

Good article here.