The Worlds biggest fold

C

custo80

Visionary
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Total posts
884
Hi all,

I really wanted to share this story with you.

Whilst trying to build my bankroll I feel I made my biggest accomplishment last night!

To give you some background I had bought in for $3 on a NLHE .01 .02 on stars. I'd been playing for about 3 hours up to this point on the 1 table. I had successfully turned my $3 buyin into over $9. I wasn't in the mood to gamble and i was trying to control any risks as much as i could.

In the hand you are about to see, the player i was against, for some reason only had 1 move, ALL IN. Any pot he was in he went all in on the flop regardless of combination of cards, number of players in the pot, or the pot size. There was no way to read him, as no-one every saw his cards or called him.

Please see below on this particular hand

pokerstars Game #16406967331: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/04/01 - 08:20:59 (ET)
Table 'Saito II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: heuschrecker ($5.30 in chips)
Seat 2: bradleyesq ($2.05 in chips)
Seat 5: VonPaulos ($2.84 in chips)
Seat 6: Custo80 ($9.39 in chips)
Seat 7: suffix8 ($1.08 in chips)
Seat 8: AsXBlood ($1 in chips)
Seat 9: EarlBlack ($0.91 in chips)
heuschrecker: posts small blind $0.01
bradleyesq: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Custo80 [Js 2s]
VonPaulos: folds
Custo80: raises $0.06 to $0.08
suffix8: folds
AsXBlood: folds
EarlBlack: folds
heuschrecker: calls $0.07
bradleyesq: folds
*** FLOP *** [3s 7s 6s]
heuschrecker: bets $4.98
Custo80 said, "why"
Custo80 said, "stupid bet"
Custo80: folds
heuschrecker collected $0.18 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.18 | Rake $0
Board [3s 7s 6s]
Seat 1: heuschrecker (small blind) collected ($0.18)
Seat 2: bradleyesq (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: VonPaulos folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Custo80 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: suffix8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: AsXBlood folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: EarlBlack (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I may have made a mistake by folding, but i thought of the following factors:

He may have the Q K or A of spades and hit.
&
I've worked so hard for 3 hours building this up, why risk loosing the majority of my hard work on this one hand.

That's all folks, thanks for taking the time to read. I'm still not sure whether i had him or not, I'll never know. BUT i do know that i'm proud i was disciplined to look at the "bigger picture" and not risk my hard work on a single hand.

Thanks all
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 25, 2005
Total posts
5,587
I've worked so hard for 3 hours building this up, why risk loosing the majority of my hard work on this one hand.

That's all folks, thanks for taking the time to read. I'm still not sure whether i had him or not, I'll never know. BUT i do know that i'm proud i was disciplined to look at the "bigger picture" and not risk my hard work on a single hand.
April fools was yesterday :)

I'd have called in a nano second and added another $4.98 to my bankroll, but i guess i'm not seeing the "bigger picture".

So much wrong with this, i'm going to sit this one out and let someone else put you right.
 
Irexes

Irexes

Legend
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Total posts
7,016
Before anyone else gets there, let me say as politely as possible that

a) the preflop raise is not one you should be making (particularly if you "don't want to gamble")

b) given that you made the preflop raise, what were you hoping would happen on the flop better than what actually did? JJJ?

c) you were so far ahead of him he was a distant dot in the distance.

d) it is not a good fold

e) welcome to CC please don't be disheartened by this or the other replies that will follow, we mean to help :)
 
P

ph_il

...
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
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I wasn't in the mood to gamble and i was trying to control any risks as much as i could.

PokerStars Game #16406967331: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/04/01 - 08:20:59 (ET)
Table 'Saito II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: heuschrecker ($5.30 in chips)
Seat 2: bradleyesq ($2.05 in chips)
Seat 5: VonPaulos ($2.84 in chips)
Seat 6: Custo80 ($9.39 in chips)
Seat 7: suffix8 ($1.08 in chips)
Seat 8: AsXBlood ($1 in chips)
Seat 9: EarlBlack ($0.91 in chips)
heuschrecker: posts small blind $0.01
bradleyesq: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Custo80 [Js 2s]
...Obv trash hand in EP. Easy fold, right?
VonPaulos: folds
Custo80: raises $0.06 to $0.08
...Oh, wait...what happened to being conservative and not taking risk?
suffix8: folds
AsXBlood: folds
EarlBlack: folds
heuschrecker: calls $0.07
bradleyesq: folds
*** FLOP *** [3s 7s 6s]
...Great flop for you, Mr. Conservative.
heuschrecker: bets $4.98
...Licking your lips, am I right? I bet you're fistpumping right about now. I would be.
Custo80 said, "why"
...why what? Why am I so lucky you're probably asking.
Custo80 said, "stupid bet"
...Huh? Stupid...this is the best bet ever!
Custo80: folds
...OMF-WTF? What? Dude is an obv loose maniac, he could be holding any 2 cards here. You probably have him dominated. I call here...but wait, you're playing conservative, right? Thats why you raised with J2 suited. What else are you looking to flop? Call, call, call.
heuschrecker collected $0.18 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.18 | Rake $0
Board [3s 7s 6s]
Seat 1: heuschrecker (small blind) collected ($0.18)
Seat 2: bradleyesq (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: VonPaulos folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Custo80 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: suffix8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: AsXBlood folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: EarlBlack (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I may have made a mistake by folding, but i thought of the followin
...I think you made a big mistake: raising with J2s in EP.

He may have the Q K or A of spades and hit.
...Thats a possibility, but considering how he has been playing I wouldnt give him too much credit. Highly unlikely he has a flush here, he might have a random spade draw, or a A,K,Q spade draw, all which you have beat already. You more than likely have him beat, but if he draws out...oh, well. It'll happen. The flop is very favorable in your situation, so call it.

I've worked so hard for 3 hours building this up, why risk loosing the majority of my hard work on this one hand.
...Because in this situation, you probably have the best hand.

That's all folks, thanks for taking the time to read. I'm still not sure whether i had him or not, I'll never know. BUT i do know that i'm proud i was disciplined to look at the "bigger picture" and not risk my hard work on a single hand.
...LOL @ disciplined. You talk about playing conservative and not taking risk and yet you raise with J2s. It doesnt make a lot of sense. And then, you flop a monster with a junk hand, a very strong flop against a loose cannon, and then you fold. Totally backwards play, dude. And you're not playing conservative when you folded, you're playing scared. You're holding a very strong hand, its probably the best hand, and you fold because you didnt want to lose your money. So, disciplined and scared are two different things. I didnt see much of any discipline, to be honest.

Thanks all
Above.
 
C

custo80

Visionary
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Total posts
884
That's what i call some brutal, yet honest and straight forward feedback, which is why i joined this forum in the first place. Yes after, reading all comments in hindsight, raising pre-flop was stupid, as it created the situation i just posted. Thank you for all for your feedback. As much as i'd like to say, "I've April fooled you all" i haven't

All feedback is taken on board for learning experiences, thank you for your opinions. Hopefully the next thread will react with more positive comments on a good hand/session played.

Thank you :)
 
Irexes

Irexes

Legend
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Total posts
7,016
No worries.

We are brutal because we care :)
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 25, 2005
Total posts
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Yes after, reading all comments in hindsight, raising pre-flop was stupid, as it created the situation i just posted.

No probs, you sounded so positive in your post I didn't want to unleash hell.

The pre-flop raise was a minor blip though, 6 cents. The huge mistake was folding post flop to a $4.98 bet when you've got to be massively in front, probably uncatchable. If you are scared of a remote possibility of losing a couple of hours gains, then No Limit ring games certainly aint for you (and you should have sat out long ago).

And no way should you be telling someone who is betting $4.98 to win an 18 cent pot (1/27 odds) that they are making a "stupid bet".
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
Joined
May 28, 2006
Total posts
1,804
I didn`t get past this bit...

Dealt to Custo80 [Js 2s]
VonPaulos: folds
Custo80: raises $0.06 to $0.08

You were delt J2 and there were 5 more people to act after you and this was NLHE?

Or am I reading this wrong?
 
zachvac

zachvac

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Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Total posts
7,832
ok well let's think about this. There are 3 sets of hands that beat you right? Axs, Kxs, and Qxs. Now think about what you would do in his position with any of those hands. Would you be putting it all-in? I don't think so, I think you'd be milking your opponent for all the money he could put in. With a dangerous flop like that he (that would be you) wouldn't make a call unless he had at least a set, and not always then.

I've found shoves like that usually mean a strong hand that are scared of being drawn out. Hands like lower flushes, TPTK, 2-pairs, sets, etc. Sure once in a while you get the maniac who will push the nut, 2nd nut, or 3rd nut flush in this spot, but you flopped a 2-carded flush. He has to have one of 3 cards plus the other one must be one of 7 more. Just because of the number of combinations hands like top pair, 2 pair, sets, lower flushes are all more common, and if you think he'd play it that way with that entire range, it's an easy call. I just don't think a good flush is shoving that flop.

You realize it was a stupid bet, you said it in the chat. If he had a monster, he gets no action the majority of the time. If he had a crap hand, he only gets called when he's beat so he loses long-term. So with that you can assume he's not a good player, but bad players have a tendency to slow-play way too often. If they hit a flop hard they'll check-raise the flop most of the time. You may have had a case for folding if he checked to you, you bet out, and he shoved. But he shoved before you acted. As I said, most of the time it's a set/2-pair/lower flush type hand, and once in a while it's a flat out bluff (obviously someone who has no concept of what a bluff actually is but wants to try it anyway).

So anyway, if you want to be conservative, don't open J2. Playing only premiums gives you the advantage of not having to make marginal flush decisions unless you see a flop free from the BB. But if you want to loosen up you're going to have to be able to make calls like this. You hit a monster, and if he has you beat he got lucky, but you can't be folding this.
 
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