I know I may sound a bit paranoid, but this has been a matter that I sometimes think about, and there's probably nothing anyone can do about. I'm not talking about bots, but about people who team up to have a better advantage over other players.

What prevents people from teaming up?

For example, say 100 people enter the same tournament. These people know each other and share their hands to have a better probabilty of winning. Now, these people don't have to be in the same room, they could probably be living in different countries and continents, but have a way to communicate with each other, so, there's no reason for any room to speculate that they're cheating and has no incentive to not put them togheter in the same table.

Now imagine having two of these people in the same table? Knowing each other hands, rasing and reraising to control the action. Now imagine 3 people in the same table... Now more than 4... Imagine being in a table full of people who know each other's cards against you!

Again, I may seem paranoid, but this can be perfectly doable if people are simply willing to cheat... once, in PokerStars, I was about to register to a 20 dollar SnG, once I saw who was also registered, I quickly unregistered as fast as I could . There were at least 15 people already registered, all from Greece, now I have nothing against people from this place, but it's too much of a coincidence to not be taken into consideration... Again it might just be my paranoic self acting up... ? This is actually the reason why I'm making this topic...

This is definitely the worst aspect about online poker, there is simply no way to know who is behind the other cards.

What do you guys think? Can this happen? Is this happening as we speak? Can we do anything about it? Post your theorys and anectodes.

Absolutely it is happening. Colluders have and will be investigated and banned before and again. It's probably even more rampant in public freerolls where a site won't be paying as much attention, so cheaters flood the freerolls with accounts and chip dump to one another with their garbage hands. Where there is an edge to be leveraged, know that there are people trying or who have already succeeded in leveraging it.

Unfortunately money makes people do horrible things. It’s definitely happening IMO. That’s why being paranoid may be a good thing. The players have to be vigilant and police the games themselves. When someone sees something that looks fishy they need to let support or a tournament director or the floor know. The poker world is full of degenerates and unscrupulous people. They will cheat, steal, lie, and manipulate in order to get what they want. I’m not saying all players are doing wrong, I believe most are playing on the level, but there’s obviously a select few that violate the rules to gain an edge. Many players have been caught botting, teaming up, multi accounting, and sharing hole cards. There’s many professional players that have been caught, yet the poker world seems to overlook some. It always amazes me when I hear story after story of players scamming money from others. Not honoring loans. Ripping off backers. Intentionally dumping. Selling multiple pieces that end up never being paid. There are “black lists” pages on Facebook that have numerous names of untrustworthy players. They join clubs make a transfer or deposit, then they reverse it once they lose or dump funds to another. Makes me wonder if poker apps are safe. It really is sad. Hard to imagine how some of these people can look themselves in the mirror. Yet they seem to have no problem showing up at tournament after tournament, year after year. I’m happy to see some of the online sites being more proactive in cleaning up the games. It’s a start. If everyone is aware, and watching out for cheaters , hopefully we can prevent some of these things from happening. When you see 15 players from Greece in a SnG it’s smart to have some type of feeling that something may be happening that shouldn’t be. I would hope the sites would have programs that can spot this obvious behavior, but if not there’s nothing wrong with asking the site to investigate. It may be a coincidence, if so then nothing needs to be done. If it is a team then I gotta believe the site will drop the ban hammer, or I would hope so.

It would be much easier and more likely on cash tables.

I never understod that. How will it help you? Even if you know all other cards at the table: 8 players*2 cards= 16 known cards. Yet 69% (or 60% on the river) unknown cards. Yes, it increases chances to know the hand but not much.
I remember I folded 10, flop opens with two 10s. German raises, all fold. I say: "I had 10". German says:"Me too". How will it help you to indentify he had THAT 1 out? Or that he didn't have?

I don't like more when big stacks try to squeeze small stack from the tourney. Once I was moved to another table with all big stacks. I had middle stack in compare to the whole tourny. They always raised me (4-10BB or more) and pushed me to go all-in, while when I fold they played check-check against each other. Raiser was absolutely different every hand. Of course, 1 out of 8 players always will have some decent hand against me. Yes, it's a game but....

Originally Posted by Smokewood

It would be much easier and more likely on cash tables.

I've heard collusion happens on cash tables quite a bit.

Originally Posted by cheeeer

I never understod that. How will it help you? Even if you know all other cards at the table: 8 players*2 cards= 16 known cards. Yet 69% (or 60% on the river) unknown cards. Yes, it increases chances to know the hand but not much.
I remember I folded 10, flop opens with two 10s. German raises, all fold. I say: "I had 10". German says:"Me too". How will it help you to indentify he had THAT 1 out? Or that he didn't have?

I don't like more when big stacks try to squeeze small stack from the tourney. Once I was moved to another table with all big stacks. I had middle stack in compare to the whole tourny. They always raised me (4-10BB or more) and pushed me to go all-in, while when I fold they played check-check against each other. Raiser was absolutely different every hand. Of course, 1 out of 8 players always will have some decent hand against me. Yes, it's a game but....

lol seriously?
Ring Ring
Yes
I have pocket AA - flat my raise to get more players in the pot.
I have an open ended str draw - need any 9 or A - duse, I have a pair of 9s - you aint going make that draw.

Originally Posted by Smokewood

lol seriously?

Of course not.

Originally Posted by Smokewood

I have pocket AA - flat my raise to get more players in the pot.
I have an open ended str draw - need any 9 or A - duse, I have a pair of 9s - you aint going make that draw.

Still two 9s and two A.

Originally Posted by cheeeer

Of course not.

Still two 9s and two A.

Are you seriously saying this? Do you know about the concept of blockers and their significance with the probability of certain outcomes on the board?

In live poker, too, people come together. It is customary practice. During the bubble people agree that to play against one of his opponents that he had fewer chances in the hand. If one opponent calls him a better chance than if he calls the two.

Originally Posted by puzzlefish

Are you seriously saying this?

Of course not.
Can't believe I need to write it again.

Originally Posted by puzzlefish

Are you seriously saying this? Do you know about the concept of blockers and their significance with the probability of certain outcomes on the board?

I thought I wrote it before.... Yes, it increases chances to know the hand but not much.
Can't believe I need to write it again.

But truly say, I did not understand his example.

Never faced it!

I'm assuming that it does happen, but sites often try and prevent such actions by not allowing accounts from the same IP address. Granted it wouldn't be too difficult to give off a false IP so I'm not sure how.

I have thought about this before and I think this would be more likely to happen in Cash games. In cash games people can easily join the same table and work together in order to take other peoples money. I swear I have seen this happen on ACR but I didn't have the guts to go out and say it.

This version has the right to life.

Originally Posted by puzzlefish

. It's probably even more rampant in public freerolls where a site won't be paying as much attention, so cheaters flood the freerolls with accounts and chip dump to one another with their garbage hands.

Hey I see how you 'figured that one out'

Hey good thinking(?)... I mean I can see why they'd put in their valuable time in those freerolls so that they can be getting a great hourly from them. They must be able to pull in an easy 46cents per hour... maybe... right??

You couldn't make up any stupider comments if you tried. Oh... I just realized something, you DID make this up.

I know that PokerStars very closely monitor the players who too often sit at the same table and there are so many cases when they were accused of fraud and blocked access to the game !!! so I don't think anyone will be able to do this for a long time !!!!

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

Hey I see how you 'figured that one out'

Hey good thinking(?)... I mean I can see why they'd put in their valuable time in those freerolls so that they can be getting a great hourly from them. They must be able to pull in an easy 46cents per hour... maybe... right??

You couldn't make up any stupider comments if you tried. Oh... I just realized something, you DID make this up.

You can't even do elementary math, so your thoughts are not even worth correcting.

To answer the OPs question: Software. There is software with very complex algorithms that track and can find collusion, bots and other forms of cheating. Companies spend millions on this software to insure as cheat free of an experience as they can. Everyone knows it still happens, but it’s not as rampant as it could be without their software.

It seems to me that such situations occur in poker.But much more often in the cash game.

Originally Posted by Pimp 007 x

What prevents people from cheating?

good character

Originally Posted by Fvendal

good character

lol, EVERYONE has their price.

Originally Posted by Smokewood

lol, EVERYONE has their price.

Id have to respectfully disagree as corrupt people or people of low character tend to be in the minority thankfully.

Originally Posted by Pimp 007 x

I know I may sound a bit paranoid, but this has been a matter that I sometimes think about, and there's probably nothing anyone can do about. I'm not talking about bots, but about people who team up to have a better advantage over other players.

What prevents people from teaming up?

For example, say 100 people enter the same tournament. These people know each other and share their hands to have a better probabilty of winning. Now, these people don't have to be in the same room, they could probably be living in different countries and continents, but have a way to communicate with each other, so, there's no reason for any room to speculate that they're cheating and has no incentive to not put them togheter in the same table.

Now imagine having two of these people in the same table? Knowing each other hands, rasing and reraising to control the action. Now imagine 3 people in the same table... Now more than 4... Imagine being in a table full of people who know each other's cards against you!

Again, I may seem paranoid, but this can be perfectly doable if people are simply willing to cheat... once, in PokerStars, I was about to register to a 20 dollar SnG, once I saw who was also registered, I quickly unregistered as fast as I could . There were at least 15 people already registered, all from Greece, now I have nothing against people from this place, but it's too much of a coincidence to not be taken into consideration... Again it might just be my paranoic self acting up... ? This is actually the reason why I'm making this topic...

This is definitely the worst aspect about online poker, there is simply no way to know who is behind the other cards.

What do you guys think? Can this happen? Is this happening as we speak? Can we do anything about it? Post your theorys and anectodes.

You know, I thought about it thousands of times, with all the sophisticated ways that there are nowadays to communicate this is totally possible, I several times suspected some people but I did not take the trouble to report them for lack of time.
The way in which I try to prevent this is by playing Spin & Go type of tournaments or Twister in Ipoker Rooms where the players who register are aletorios and nobody knows which players are registered in advance, unfortunately it is dangerous to apparently play tournaments in some rooms, but I think that the technology is able to avoid this type of traps, it is only necessary that the poker rooms take precautions on this but I think that now they do not care.

Also in some rooms it is also possible to change the Nickname on the tables and this is the only thing that makes this kind of cheats help unfortunately.

Collusion is hard to stop butt send a screen shot to the administration if you notice people doing it

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/onli...-table-423743/

There are no chances in a multi-player tournament. If they were to communicate with each other, the only advantage would be if they were at the same table at the final table, otherwise, it makes no difference.

Originally Posted by COMIRRR

There are no chances in a multi-player tournament. If they were to communicate with each other, the only advantage would be if they were at the same table at the final table, otherwise, it makes no difference.

I didn’t even consider that. Very true though. Thanks for bringing that up!

Originally Posted by COMIRRR

There are no chances in a multi-player tournament. If they were to communicate with each other, the only advantage would be if they were at the same table at the final table, otherwise, it makes no difference.

I think that this type of people has everything very well studied and they register in tournaments depending on the amount of people in the network that are available to play.
Therefore, if there are 50 people in the network, they register in tournaments of no more than 200 people to be between 25% of the total players, generally the percentage of positions paid.

Years ago I play in almost all the existing modalities in different rooms and it is possible to know beforehand, knowing well the rooms or the poker networks, if in a tournament X amount of players will be registered, especially in the HI-Lo games and where almost There is always a much smaller number of people in tournaments than in Texas Holdem.

Therefore, I do not believe that these people register in multiplayer tournaments of thousands of players (usually low entry tournaments), but prefer to register in tournaments with few people with a high or medium Buy-In, and thus get advantage.

Integrity! Or the sites and people who raise red flags.

I also ask myself that question every day I feel that someone else already knows what kind of letters I have to withdraw just when I have an excellent hand it seems that they know what I have and so I get to lose someone could tell me how a person can be sure that in your poker room you are not being scammed

I keep thinking, if I make money with all this against me, I must be really good.

Originally Posted by danelyCS

I think that this type of people has everything very well studied and they register in tournaments depending on the amount of people in the network that are available to play.
Therefore, if there are 50 people in the network, they register in tournaments of no more than 200 people to be between 25% of the total players, generally the percentage of positions paid.

Years ago I play in almost all the existing modalities in different rooms and it is possible to know beforehand, knowing well the rooms or the poker networks, if in a tournament X amount of players will be registered, especially in the HI-Lo games and where almost There is always a much smaller number of people in tournaments than in Texas Holdem.

Therefore, I do not believe that these people register in multiplayer tournaments of thousands of players (usually low entry tournaments), but prefer to register in tournaments with few people with a high or medium Buy-In, and thus get advantage.

Correct vision

As some have mentioned like Mr Hand, this is where multi table tournaments are better. You cannot pick your table so the large multi table tournaments are not really at risk from collusion plays as the chance of ending on the same table as someone you are colluding with is minimal. Maybe possible if a lot of you and the tournament is not have a huge field but very different to a sit and go in this aspect.

Yes, yes, it's effective, and people are united, knowing each other well. But it prevents us from uniting with other, less familiar, thirst for money (and if he wins and I do not, why share when you can take everything yourself) such questions arise. Oh yeah

You can't have 100% guarantee that nobody is cheating unfortunately. Big sites have some forms of protection and automatic tools looking for suspicious behavior by a player or group of players but nothing can catch 100% of cheaters. Even if you play live you can't be sure that some of the people on the table are not teaming up against you even though obviously they can not share their hands. It is enough if they know each other and play soft between themselves and hard on you.

In particular i can only speak about pokerstars as i play only there online. Theiw windows client is very suspicious and monitors far more things that you think. It can even catch programs which are illegal according to them and are not even running at the moment detecting where they are installed. I would not be surprised if it monitors even the opened sites in browser and what you type in messengers.

In android applications are written in such way that it is very difficult one application to mess with another as they are well separated. You usually have few seconds to act so you need to be quite fast on your phone to manage to switch app and share your cards with someone else.

To sum it up i prefer to focus on my game instead on such possibilities of cheating. Playing MTTs with their big fields and frequent table switching is the most secure game type to play if you are afraid of such cheats.

Originally Posted by Mr_Hand

I didn’t even consider that. Very true though. Thanks for bringing that up!

I do not agree with the point, I think it does I happen in multitable tournaments and is worthwhile for the cheaters. I have had several incidents on ACR recently. In one 400 player tournament I found the following accounts:-

maxon1973
maxon197311
Maxon19731111

This is most definitely someone playing the same several account to win. I reported this, would have liked to know the outcome but it was not confirmed what action had been taken.

Why is it advantageous only if they make the final table? More collusion, or in this account more chances to win. If you do hit the same table before the final, you better deduce your opponents cards as you now more cards that have been dealt and can do co-operative plays or chip dumping if desired.

The larger the tournament the harder it is but then bigger payouts involved and still worthwhile for cheaters

Pretty much knocked a player out a few days ago on ACR and the player retorted don't care will log back in under a different skin. Blatantly confirming cheating! I do not agree with the multi skins. The fact that ACR have stated players must join all their tickets from different skins for the Venom final is a worry or they lose them. They shouldn't be able to build tickets from multiple skins! Surely you prefer one skin or another, you don't compete for the same tournament using multiple skins?

I have found the cheating on ACR to be more blatant and find it a worry to play on but there seems to be more fish at the same time so have kept playing but account verification does look like an issue there. But cheating does occur on all sites and collusion is probably one of the biggest types.

Nothing prevents these people from performing these activities at a poker table online. But as long as I play only on micro tables and mostly in tournaments, it does not bother me, but at high stakes I think that it is quite possible.
I also know that players from Greece are registered to Sit & Go at high rates due to the tax laws of this country.

Yeah the higher the stakes the more incentive to cheat.

Its disgusting, and it happens. I once had a guy ask me to get in with his group that play ignition sit and go's. Double ups I think. They get on the phone, and collude. It's kinda disheartening when you are trying to do the right thing, and you know that is going on out there.... I declined.

Hi
Online maybe possible.
But in live cash games it's a bit difficult to cheat by colluding.

But I experience this between players in a live tourney, where they gang up and not play against each other.

If a another player is in the hand than its normal.

But if it's between them they just check the hand and by doing so they gang up to help each other reach the money.

Originally Posted by Pimp 007 x

I know I may sound a bit paranoid, but this has been a matter that I sometimes think about, and there's probably nothing anyone can do about. I'm not talking about bots, but about people who team up to have a better advantage over other players.

What prevents people from teaming up?

For example, say 100 people enter the same tournament. These people know each other and share their hands to have a better probabilty of winning. Now, these people don't have to be in the same room, they could probably be living in different countries and continents, but have a way to communicate with each other, so, there's no reason for any room to speculate that they're cheating and has no incentive to not put them togheter in the same table.

Now imagine having two of these people in the same table? Knowing each other hands, rasing and reraising to control the action. Now imagine 3 people in the same table... Now more than 4... Imagine being in a table full of people who know each other's cards against you!

Again, I may seem paranoid, but this can be perfectly doable if people are simply willing to cheat... once, in PokerStars, I was about to register to a 20 dollar SnG, once I saw who was also registered, I quickly unregistered as fast as I could . There were at least 15 people already registered, all from Greece, now I have nothing against people from this place, but it's too much of a coincidence to not be taken into consideration... Again it might just be my paranoic self acting up... ? This is actually the reason why I'm making this topic...

This is definitely the worst aspect about online poker, there is simply no way to know who is behind the other cards.

What do you guys think? Can this happen? Is this happening as we speak? Can we do anything about it? Post your theorys and anectodes.

really crazy
but can happen, we never know, money runs the world people can do anything for

Originally Posted by Pimp 007 x

I know I may sound a bit paranoid, but this has been a matter that I sometimes think about, and there's probably nothing anyone can do about. I'm not talking about bots, but about people who team up to have a better advantage over other players.

What prevents people from teaming up?

For example, say 100 people enter the same tournament. These people know each other and share their hands to have a better probabilty of winning. Now, these people don't have to be in the same room, they could probably be living in different countries and continents, but have a way to communicate with each other, so, there's no reason for any room to speculate that they're cheating and has no incentive to not put them togheter in the same table.

Now imagine having two of these people in the same table? Knowing each other hands, rasing and reraising to control the action. Now imagine 3 people in the same table... Now more than 4... Imagine being in a table full of people who know each other's cards against you!

Again, I may seem paranoid, but this can be perfectly doable if people are simply willing to cheat... once, in PokerStars, I was about to register to a 20 dollar SnG, once I saw who was also registered, I quickly unregistered as fast as I could . There were at least 15 people already registered, all from Greece, now I have nothing against people from this place, but it's too much of a coincidence to not be taken into consideration... Again it might just be my paranoic self acting up... ? This is actually the reason why I'm making this topic...

This is definitely the worst aspect about online poker, there is simply no way to know who is behind the other cards.

What do you guys think? Can this happen? Is this happening as we speak? Can we do anything about it? Post your theorys and anectodes.

My conscience and character prevent me from cheating.

The players who play in collusion short poker career, they will be detected and closed.

In my opinion - it's all pure imagination, which has nothing to do with reality. You just have to play your game. Accepting both victories and defeats with personal dignity. As a given.

Great ?, there definitely seems like it's happening, especially in Sit n Go's.

The reason for me is that if I was playing for free, I would still be happy. I like to play all types of card games, not just cards either. Chess, backgammon, dominos, ....
I play to get better at the games and show my skills. It would not be fun at all for me if I was cheating. Cheating just to make money? You can steal money a lot easier than a poker site. If you were just a normal every day thief.

Someone is always going find a way to cheat the system. In cash games it seems like it would be done more often. Like others have said it is on you as a player to report anything fishy going on at the tables. I'm sure it happens, that's why I stick to live games more than I do with online. I have better results playing live poker. Online players are tough to read for me.

Originally Posted by Pimp 007 x

I know I may sound a bit paranoid, but this has been a matter that I sometimes think about, and there's probably nothing anyone can do about. I'm not talking about bots, but about people who team up to have a better advantage over other players.

What prevents people from teaming up?

For example, say 100 people enter the same tournament. These people know each other and share their hands to have a better probabilty of winning. Now, these people don't have to be in the same room, they could probably be living in different countries and continents, but have a way to communicate with each other, so, there's no reason for any room to speculate that they're cheating and has no incentive to not put them togheter in the same table.

Now imagine having two of these people in the same table? Knowing each other hands, rasing and reraising to control the action. Now imagine 3 people in the same table... Now more than 4... Imagine being in a table full of people who know each other's cards against you!

Again, I may seem paranoid, but this can be perfectly doable if people are simply willing to cheat... once, in PokerStars, I was about to register to a 20 dollar SnG, once I saw who was also registered, I quickly unregistered as fast as I could . There were at least 15 people already registered, all from Greece, now I have nothing against people from this place, but it's too much of a coincidence to not be taken into consideration... Again it might just be my paranoic self acting up... ? This is actually the reason why I'm making this topic...

This is definitely the worst aspect about online poker, there is simply no way to know who is behind the other cards.

What do you guys think? Can this happen? Is this happening as we speak? Can we do anything about it? Post your theorys and anectodes.

Check out these vids proving ACR promotes cheating.

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

Originally Posted by Smokewood

It would be much easier and more likely on cash tables.

Exactly right. And ACR makes all the money from the rake.

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube