What can be done to help the poker ecology

[PaxMundi]

I have a few ideas personally that i think would help.One of the main issues being speed tables as i think those tables are geared for high volume grinders. Who aren't neccesserily big winning players but for break even and small losing players to drastically increase the volume they can play for bonuses and rakeback.The speed tables don't help the sites player pools in my opinion so i would get rid of those tables.

Another big issue is huds and my preference wold be to completely ban huds on sites.The truth is most winning regs would be break even or losing players without a hud on the major sites.I think sites should offer better deals for players and give bonuses to players worth having.The way to help poker isn't by constantly squeezing the pockets of winning regs.The way to help poker is to stop giving losing and break even players easy ways to become winning players in the form of speed tables and huds.

One other idea to attract recreational players would be to make it a commitment of the pros to play a certain number of hands each month at micro and mid stakes.Make them available to recreational players to play against and that would be a big draw for the poker sites.And lastly the big sites should introduce cam tables the way 888 did i think those are big draws for the recreational player.Any ideas or are you happy with the way the top poker sites are being run at the moment.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[panost]

Top poker sites cares only for money.

 

[PaxMundi]

Top poker sites cares only for money.

I agree with that and i don't really blame them they are a business.I just think they constantly punish the wrong people and have been getting things very wrong for a decade or more.They don't seem to implement any changes that benefit the poker ecology.

I think newer look sites like unibet are getting things in the right direction taking poker back to it's basics.Although i do think recreational players like to chat so i wouldn't of done away with chat boxes.People can always ignore anyone being rude in chat or report them.

 

[Riomaa]

They'll never ban HUDs. You'll lose a high number of players. The effort to make it happen would and enforce it wouldn't be worth it either.

 

[geoff4376]

I feel like HUDs are for the weak. They are good for training purposes, but should eventually be phased out in favor of your brain. Kinda like training wheels for a bike. That being said, I think they should be banned. They can't be used in live poker, anyway.

We need to attract the fish, not the sharks. Think about live poker. How do they attract people? It generally isn't things like rakeback. It's the things that the fish want: high hand contests, bad beat jackpots, free meal tickets, free drinks at the table, etc.

 

[Kassandra677]

I totally agree!

 

[PaxMundi]

I feel like HUDs are for the weak. They are good for training purposes, but should eventually be phased out in favor of your brain. Kinda like training wheels for a bike. That being said, I think they should be banned. They can't be used in live poker, anyway.

We need to attract the fish, not the sharks. Think about live poker. How do they attract people? It generally isn't things like rakeback. It's the things that the fish want: high hand contests, bad beat jackpots, free meal tickets, free drinks at the table, etc.

Ye ive always liked the stores on sites to exchange points for either money or gifts i think that suites the regs and recreational players alike.But you need the exchange rate to be worth while having because giving 10% to lower tier players who pay the highest rake is almost a slap in the face. Which is why i don't use the major sites any more.

 

[PaxMundi]

They'll never ban HUDs. You'll lose a high number of players. The effort to make it happen would and enforce it wouldn't be worth it either.

They will only lose the players that have been killing the game for years.Which is the high volume break even grinder making money from bonuses alone.Those players will be forced to learn how to beat the games without the use of a hud or become losing players or quit.Most sites have already begun banning huds even party poker now only allows session stats on regular tables.They need to go one step further though in my opinion.

 

[Dzob]

The best thing for a fast generation of ecosystems is a large influx of new players. This can be achieved by legalizing poker in countries where it is blocked. US players are the most affected players.
Liquidation of HUDs would also improve the ecosystem, because it would reduce the advantage of professional players.

 

[vov4ik]

I have a few ideas personally that i think would help.One of the main issues being speed tables as i think those tables are geared for high volume grinders. Who aren't neccesserily big winning players but for break even and small losing players to drastically increase the volume they can play for bonuses and rakeback.The speed tables don't help the sites player pools in my opinion so i would get rid of those tables.

Another big issue is huds and my preference wold be to completely ban huds on sites.The truth is most winning regs would be break even or losing players without a hud on the major sites.I think sites should offer better deals for players and give bonuses to players worth having.The way to help poker isn't by constantly squeezing the pockets of winning regs.The way to help poker is to stop giving losing and break even players easy ways to become winning players in the form of speed tables and huds.

One other idea to attract recreational players would be to make it a commitment of the pros to play a certain number of hands each month at micro and mid stakes.Make them available to recreational players to play against and that would be a big draw for the poker sites.And lastly the big sites should introduce cam tables the way 888 did i think those are big draws for the recreational player.Any ideas or are you happy with the way the top poker sites are being run at the moment.

Thanks for the discussion.

Yes, I agree that in some cases poker punishes players incorrectly or somehow, or games are almost impossible to win, but why do not you like that the bonus is given to all players, all beginners have a chance to rise in poker at the expense of the bonus they give the opportunity play for the bonus if you are lucky and you win it, it's fine if you lose it then refill and play on, but in more I agree with you!

 

[PaxMundi]

Yes, I agree that in some cases poker punishes players incorrectly or somehow, or games are almost impossible to win, but why do not you like that the bonus is given to all players, all beginners have a chance to rise in poker at the expense of the bonus they give the opportunity play for the bonus if you are lucky and you win it, it's fine if you lose it then refill and play on, but in more I agree with you!

I like bonuses given to all players i don't think sites like pokerstars give enough back to the community.They have been progressively squeezing the pockets of their customers and id like to see it reversed to some extent.I would like to see an exchange rate equivalent to a minimum of 20% for all players.Either that or lower the rake they take.

 

[PaxMundi]

The best thing for a fast generation of ecosystems is a large influx of new players. This can be achieved by legalizing poker in countries where it is blocked. US players are the most affected players.
Liquidation of HUDs would also improve the ecosystem, because it would reduce the advantage of professional players.

I agree that Hud's are not good for poker and they benefit the wrong players.And as i said above i think speed games are really terrible for the poker economy as'well they also benefit the wrong people.Speed tables and Hud's just give the losing and break even players a way to benefit from the bonus schemes sites run.And because of this the sites then squeeze the pockets of the winning players and recreational players alike by reducing bonuses.The system is geared completely wrong and benefits the people the sites don't want to benefit.

 

[PackinPat]

I have a few ideas personally that i think would help.One of the main issues being speed tables as i think those tables are geared for high volume grinders. Who aren't neccesserily big winning players but for break even and small losing players to drastically increase the volume they can play for bonuses and rakeback.The speed tables don't help the sites player pools in my opinion so i would get rid of those tables.

Another big issue is huds and my preference wold be to completely ban huds on sites.The truth is most winning regs would be break even or losing players without a hud on the major sites.I think sites should offer better deals for players and give bonuses to players worth having.The way to help poker isn't by constantly squeezing the pockets of winning regs.The way to help poker is to stop giving losing and break even players easy ways to become winning players in the form of speed tables and huds.

One other idea to attract recreational players would be to make it a commitment of the pros to play a certain number of hands each month at micro and mid stakes.Make them available to recreational players to play against and that would be a big draw for the poker sites.And lastly the big sites should introduce cam tables the way 888 did i think those are big draws for the recreational player.Any ideas or are you happy with the way the top poker sites are being run at the moment.

Thanks for the discussion.

The idea of a pro playing lower stakes is great. The big sites pay the pro's to promote and show up at the big events. They should also promote to the main body of mid and micro stake online players.

 

[panost]

If I remember well when the poker star started the new way of rewarding, stopped the leaderboards from the sit-go, stopped the freeroll from the levels, etc., it showed profit almost 10x more than before. After that, they created the sportsbook to take all the money that the recreationals would have won. And as you can see 150.000 players are still there.

 

[PaxMundi]

The idea of a pro playing lower stakes is great. The big sites pay the pro's to promote and show up at the big events. They should also promote to the main body of mid and micro stake online players.

Ye i completely agree i think it would be a massive draw for online sites.To have the pro players and celebrities available to play in the micro stakes for recreational players.I mean 1k hands per month for each pro/celebrity or something wouldn't be to much to ask of them.

 

[PackinPat]

Didn't Doug Polk just play on the micro stakes to reach his goal of $10,000. I would of loved to play a few hands with him.
I have a tournament that Joe Cada is going to play in coming up in November. It would be real nice to play a few hand against him. In fact I think I will find his game on Pokerstars and watch a little bit. It may help but nothing like playing against him for real.

 

[playinggameswithu]

Honestly poker is a predatory and dark game. Introducing it to new people can almost guarantee they are not going to spend 3 to 6 months catching up to where at least solid players are playing at. Instead new players will try to learn by playing and hence will lose a lot playing to learn.

The game is great in NLH MTT structure for new players with some coaching but every other structure is guaranteed almost to eat players alive.

The sponsors should chip into the prize pools and celebrities should be brought into the wsop to help promote the game, though a warning would not hurt. Such as don't play with money you can't afford to lose etc.

 

[PaxMundi]

Honestly poker is a predatory and dark game. Introducing it to new people can almost guarantee they are not going to spend 3 to 6 months catching up to where at least solid players are playing at. Instead new players will try to learn by playing and hence will lose a lot playing to learn.

The game is great in NLH MTT structure for new players with some coaching but every other structure is guaranteed almost to eat players alive.

The sponsors should chip into the prize pools and celebrities should be brought into the WSOP to help promote the game, though a warning would not hurt. Such as don't play with money you can't afford to lose etc.

Most recreational players look at poker like slot machines i know i used to.It's a bit of fun with a few beers for a couple of hours.

 

[playinggameswithu]

Most recreational players look at poker like slot machines i know i used to.It's a bit of fun with a few beers for a couple of hours.

Yes it is a fun game. But playing for fun IMO is questionable. The game is suppose to be at its highest a lucrative hobby outlet for leveraging luck into getting money that is near impossible to get working for a living. That happens with genuine skilled gambling like in MTT's. I would never recommend cash games to new players when their are more luck based interesting super knockout Omaha turbo MTTs. Or big $1,000,000 dollar + NLH deepstack slow long MTTs which new player have a shot at winning.

If we could have an amateur rich businessman beat a table of pro's at the Big One for One Drop then we might have another poker boom on our hands.

 

[Spaceman]

A time machine

I read about the poker era where unlimited internet articles, forums, books, coaches, free tips and advices from pro poker players was hard to come by. That was a dream field for anybody who study poker and have an edge over the others.

Now in the era of unlimited pro info, edge is lost. That makes poker, a losing game for any fish who dont study and a matter of luck most of the times for the studying players. Even pro poker players openly admit that the field is pretty hard these days, and thats the reason.

So, the poker ecosystem as most knew it is kinda ruined. The best it could be done, is somehow make the ecosystem like it was before the poker boom. Fishes could make some bucks with a little help from luck, and sharks could easily make a living and millions. I dont know how this would be ever be possible again.

I believe thats the reason you see players like Ivey or Dwan playing nosebleed shortdeck holdem in Macau. Its because its a game with many recreational players and studying players like Ivey and Dwan will have an edge over them. I think something similar would be good for the poker ecosystem. More not new players, but recreational players and some changes to the game that good players will have an edge but fishes would still have a chance to make a profit.

Maybe Galfond with his site, that would make huds unusable is on a good road, maybe a new decent poker game, I dont know. Maybe some kind of game like spin n go, that many recreational players play because of the jackpot chance, lets say a sit n go with a jackpot prize or something.

 

[Iryna Stryzheuskaya]

I believe that for poker ecology it would be useful to lift the ban on poker, introduced by some countries.

 

[playinggameswithu]

I believe that for poker ecology it would be useful to lift the ban on poker, introduced by some countries.

Amen. I did not comprehend why it was soo difficult to play a game why the law went after Poker so harshly. It is a skilled game that is extremely popular and beloved.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I have a few ideas personally that i think would help.One of the main issues being speed tables as i think those tables are geared for high volume grinders. Who aren't neccesserily big winning players but for break even and small losing players to drastically increase the volume they can play for bonuses and rakeback.The speed tables don't help the sites player pools in my opinion so i would get rid of those tables.

Another big issue is huds and my preference wold be to completely ban huds on sites.The truth is most winning regs would be break even or losing players without a hud on the major sites.I think sites should offer better deals for players and give bonuses to players worth having.The way to help poker isn't by constantly squeezing the pockets of winning regs.The way to help poker is to stop giving losing and break even players easy ways to become winning players in the form of speed tables and huds.

One other idea to attract recreational players would be to make it a commitment of the pros to play a certain number of hands each month at micro and mid stakes.Make them available to recreational players to play against and that would be a big draw for the poker sites.And lastly the big sites should introduce cam tables the way 888 did i think those are big draws for the recreational player.Any ideas or are you happy with the way the top poker sites are being run at the moment.

Thanks for the discussion.

You mean like 'Play poker with the Pros!' ? That would be a great idea. Maybe if you knock them out of a tournament you could win a t-shirt or something?

 

[PaxMundi]

You mean like 'Play poker with the Pros!' ? That would be a great idea. Maybe if you knock them out of a tournament you could win a t-shirt or something?

I already own a t-shirt so i want to win a something.