The time of decision is a factor to study or no?

charly11719

charly11719

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the time it takes a player to decide whether check, call o rise influence to study his play?

can you tell if you have a good hand or a bluff?
 
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DS3

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Only in a simplistic manner.

Yes, someone might take a regular amount of time to make a decision then suddenly pause and take a long time before playing (or not). But that would be a ridiculous tell.

I think any sophisticated player will play around with either playing quickly or slightly delaying to make sure they are not giving tells. I am sure the average player with even a simple skill set is actually giving out more reverse tells that real tells.

So I would play against his or her VPIP and what cards they have taken to showdown, not against whatever decision time he or she is making.
 
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olesyafarion

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Hi! Yes, I've noticed that some weak players fall for the trick of stalling a little,pretending that you have a bad hand and are in doubt. I do that sometimes. When you raise the bet quickly or call very quickly, they immediately know that the hand is good.
 
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RealNakedNomad

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Its a tell definitely...but you still need to know the opponent and their playing style/s.

I personally use the Action Timer AND Time Out Timers to influence the actions of other players EVEN WHEN IM NOT GONNA PLAY THE HAND. Anything that you can do/used to to your advantage to mentally mess with an opponents train of thought is good.
(Note: Not 100% of the time, because it really IS incredibly annoying, but enough to raise some Blood Pressure for sure...a lot can happen in a persons mind within a few seconds...we are our own worst critics.

I say this all the time but the KEY, if you can call it a key, or Ol' Wives Tale...Old Wise Tell... "To win you need only to make fewer mistakes that your opponent" ...and a little luck from the card gods.

In real play... I watch for twitches of the hands, finger tips, are they clammy/perspiring, lip biting/licking OR Cheek chewing, leg bounces, cards guarded or not...does the pattern change with their changing hand strengths...do they watch other players before looking at their own hands or focus- only on what they are dealt...do they take multiple glances as their cards pre-flop (They never change no matter how many times you have to look back at your own cards) ..do they have to look back post flop...everytime?...do they roleplay (create action when the table is dead) or do they still forget that they are the fn Big Blind again and you gotta keep telling them.

Is this a Shark mentality? If I see a Shark, I play dumb fish...I see a fish, I circle, chum, then strike as the shark...ALWAYS...not ALWAYS but SOMETIMES...SOMETIMES almost never...here and there...enough to hurt but not enough to create a pattern...keep it random...then Slap'em like Rick James...and tiptoe off... Im rambling...rumbling...mumbling...

Hope this counts as a "Quality" post/reply hehe
 
Nikolay Nakhaev

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therefore, regardless of the strength of the hand, you always need to learn to observe timing
this prevents opponents who are watching others closely from understanding the strength of your hand
 
charly11719

charly11719

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I am quite new to poker and the whole subject of studying it, and I was seeing the decision time that some online players use or the speed to call, so thanks for all your input and I will incorporate a lot of what you told me, thanks and good hands
 
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1nsomn1a

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This is definitely worth paying attention to, but it is not the most important factor in the game, perhaps the opponent is playing several tables, or a bad connection, or just distracted by something. But of course in poker there is never too much information.:)
 
Thiagon

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I believe it is just a matter of strategy.
Often the player has already made his decision but maintains his strategy of delaying, perhaps, to confuse his opponents.
I believe that the more the player varies his game, the more he becomes unpredictable.
 
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I don't much attention to timing until the late stages of a tournament. Early on with little pressure involved in most decisions the players will generally behave in a somewhat 'normal' fashion. When there is a delay there could easily be all kinds of reasons...answering the phone, multi-tabling, making dinner and so on. Early on when the players have lots of chips they don't mind handling distractions that might slow down their play. Later, however, when the money is close and decisions involve more pressure, that's when I expect we are getting their full attention. Now when they delay we can somewhat safely assume they are thinking. That;s when you need to pay attention and listen to your intuition. If you make a play that is unusual or different from your normal play you should expect them to take a bit more time to respond. If, however, your play is normal, for you, then you need to pay attention when your opponent slows down and then bets. Take all the other factors into consideration, stack sizes, position, the board, the bubble erc and then decide.....does his play make sense considering the change in timing?
 
Transcendence

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I make decisions instantly. I think those who think long are stupid. Although... everyone has their own style of play.
 
Phoenix Wright

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Hi! Yes, I've noticed that some weak players fall for the trick of stalling a little,pretending that you have a bad hand and are in doubt. I do that sometimes. When you raise the bet quickly or call very quickly, they immediately know that the hand is good.

Yes, generally speaking this is true. This is why observation is important. If I notice a certain player calling super quick, but then take oddly long on a specific decision, then I take a mental note of that situation and the result (ideal if they reach showdown). I want to see if they had a good hand or not. Some players are weaker when they take longer, but some players are tricky and delay intentionally as acting in a reverse-psychology fashion.

Have to figure out which players are "actors" and which ones are doing it while unaware.

therefore, regardless of the strength of the hand, you always need to learn to observe timing
this prevents opponents who are watching others closely from understanding the strength of your hand

+1 I try to take about the same amount of time for each hand. This indicates nothing to an opponent if you always take the same amount of time; it only stands out when you vary from what is "normal" for you.

I make decisions instantly. I think those who think long are stupid. Although... everyone has their own style of play.

I make quick decisions too, but usually not instantly. I give myself a little "barrier" to disguise the times I really do want to think a bit or hesitate some. What you are describing sounds like you only play poker online. Online is much faster paced than live games are. Especially with check-fold options online or being able to "call any" or "all-in" clicked before the action gets to you. These options also speed up the game a bit, so yeah online I find less time needed to consider. Another thought to mention is that live has more information with physical tells, table chatter and other things online does not have. For this reason, live games give you more things to consider and evaluate on your decisions at the poker table. For online, you can usually just click options in advance and instantly take the desired action (like ticking "fold" before the action reaches you to instantly fold when it is your turn to act).
 
charly11719

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I also make quick decisions, but usually not instantly. I give myself a little "barrier" to disguise the moments when I really want to think a little or hesitate a little. What you are describing sounds like you only play online poker. Online is much faster than live games. Especially with the online check-fold options or the ability to "call anyone" or click "all-in" before the action hits you. These options also speed up the game a bit, so yes, online I find less time to consider. Another thought to mention is that live you have more information with physical ads, table chat and other things that you don't have online.For this reason, live games give you more to consider and evaluate in your decisions at the poker table. For online,



I like to think that decision time is interesting to study while playing online. of course playing live is how you say. Could you tell me how was that tournament you won that interests me a lot? I have been playing and learning online poker for a month. With friends I have played many times live but it is different from freeroll tournaments
 
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RealNakedNomad

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therefore, regardless of the strength of the hand, you always need to learn to observe timing
this prevents opponents who are watching others closely from understanding the strength of your hand


Totally agree... good timing is key to placing in the money on the regular.

...Pick your battles (a little less...put some back...that's still too many...put a couple back).

WHEN and WHERE...since we've commited our list of playable hands from any given postion to memory...the WHAT.

DONT take that as you HAVE TO play them.

Sitting with anything less than an ideal situation like for instance KK, QQs or Kx (Suited) or worse, preflop, under the gun, leaves a lot of room for open action to follow up your play...something you dont want IF your small stack surrounded by the top chip leaders and one more mistake could bust you out of the game.

Keenly playing your position (where your at in relation the button) at the table is detrimentel to being even an amature poker player IMO. I've seen several impressive players win entire tournaments without ever looking at their hole cards once until showdown.

I think one has the potential to look too much into tells and forget about the "nutz" and bolts of the game. I fall prey to my own self far too often. I love role playing at dead tables...best place for an ambivert like myself. Good vibes, Chatty but not TOO chatty, you can chip up on those players that are getting lackadaisical and smooth over tensions with a joke afterwards...I got jokes to spare...we'll all have a great night win or lose lol.
 
messats

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be patient

the time it takes a player to decide whether check, call o rise influence to study his play?

can you tell if you have a good hand or a bluff?


it is always wise to be patient when making decisions because it helps you analyze your hand versus the board cards also helps to read a player given you have collected sufficient info
 
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RealNakedNomad

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I am quite new to poker and the whole subject of studying it, and I was seeing the decision time that some online players use or the speed to call, so thanks for all your input and I will incorporate a lot of what you told me, thanks and good hands


Online tells are more about watching a players betting patterns AND paying attention all the way through the showdown EVEN if your not in the hand. You want to learn what he/she plays, from where they'll play it, and how they play it out from start to finish.

Obviously you can't see your opponents in person so the Real Play tells are nonexistent in this instance.
 
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...I've noticed that some weak players fall for the trick of stalling a little,pretending that you have a bad hand and are in doubt. I do that sometimes...

Bruv, dont call yourself weak... "You's strong, you's smart, you's..." or however that goes.

I feel like I need to chime in with my 2 cents and kindly disagree to the sentiment that insta call/raise is an indicator of hand strength.

I love/hate seeing that insta-call/raise. If I've been playing fairly tight and passive and throw out a raise or reraise to get insta called...Im pondering weather the pot/outs/odds. Its VERY hard to lay down pocket KKs, QQs, AK/AQ (suited), especially mid-end tournament when one mistake could land you just outside the bubble. THAT'S when the real roleplaying begins. Bluffs use delays and insta call/raise to try and manipulate you into believing the lie they're narrating to you.

Timers/Delays and Insta call/raise...in relation to hand strength for any given opponent...Insta calling/raising isn't a regular enough pattern to catch in just one game usually. So...it IS a tell but not one you can trust...IMO that means to me, personally, that its not a tell because I dont learn anything I can use from them in the moment.
 
sequoia

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Less time sometimes means a strong hand, for example, after seeing the flop, your opponent just instantly checks with the nuts, trying to trap you.
 
MrPokerVerse

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I'm normally looking for difference in play. Something abnormal from previous hands. Someone "Hollywooding" at the table can be an intentional tell.
 
pedrovitorcosta

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I love to do a slow play when I have the nuts ... usually many people end up thinking it is a bluff for that and it yields a good pot ...
 
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anadrijav

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It is always a factor to study, especially the ones you lose, because when you win you forget it quickly.
 
Sergei 9417

Sergei 9417

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Hello! In live poker, pause definitely plays a big role, as for online games, I would not attach much importance to them, I agree that the length of the pause can be influenced by many factors from multi-table play to going to the cafeteria for a sandwich.
Best regards, Sergei.
 
CptRunBad

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If you are not studying you are not reaching your full potential.
 
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