Random Card Generator

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PDMike425

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I have heard from different places how they choose the cards on the board. On ps they supposedly pick every card at random during the flop and on ftp they prepick the cards. how is it for other sites or did i mess up the first two too? thanks
 
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chadherczeg

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atcually

actually most poker rooms actually use the same software. It is a random card generator and no flops are planned, no hands are planned. Now an extremely smart person (or software engineer) will tell you that the idea of a random information creator is a good idea but not possible. In software their will always be patterns. sometimes these patterns are millions of yards of written code long, but still patterns. But their are even patterns in natural dealing also that if you had a super computer would be easier to pick up than the random card generator's pattern. Hopefully this answers your question. Gl
 
Cowgirl

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I know that they use random card generators, but they don't seem so random sometimes. Although that happens in live poker to, so random or not bad beats SUCK!!
 
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DEVILRAISE

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says you play at bodog and thats a pretty fair site. now poker stars is the one you must be thinking of as pre-picked. that site is programmed to let donkeys win to keep everyone in da money. that im sure of, I have spent hundreds of hours on there and thats how I feel, and no surveys or algo testers will change my mind....sorry Ive seen to many set ups to be normal there. before online? for years I've been a live player (Hard rock/dog tracks etc..) and in all my years of real rooms have never seen such upsets on a regular basis. its not random at stars. Ace is "ALWAYS" floating to the top of the deck. id have to say I see ace 7 of 10 times on flops there at least. always monster hands for 5 people after 3 hands of nothing, that kinda @$&%.
 
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gn2056

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I agree every site seems to have patterns, I am considering moving to Full Tilt but you know I have been seeing worse beats there than anywhere, I played there a while ago really drunk and I remember winning a lot of cash on badbeats and losing with the nuts this was on one of the higher no limit tables. I used to think bodog was bad, but honestly it may be my best option. The problem is I get sick of only being able to play hold em. I totally feel like there are patterns at bodog but honestly I feel like I know when they are coming. Full Tilt since I have been playing freerolls recently I dont remember the last time I saw a draw miss, and pairs hit trips closer to one in three than one in seven, at least when I am playing. I will be depositing again soon but cant make up my mind where to drop five hundy. any suggestions?
 
Jagsti

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now poker stars is the one you must be thinking of as pre-picked. that site is programmed to let donkeys win to keep everyone in da money. that im sure of, I have spent hundreds of hours on there and thats how I feel, and no surveys or algo testers will change my mind....sorry Ive seen to many set ups to be normal there. before online?

Wow, thats the 1st time I've been called a donk on CC :rolleyes:
 
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ph_il

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I don't see why you're complaining about pokerstars programming because it to "lets the donks win". You've already figured out the secret to beating the system.

...Taken from another thread
you need to play like a donkey to beat a donkey. you cant play regular poker online. I found that out the hard way. fish for flushes!, donk that straight on the river. make 2 7 off your best friend. its the only way to win.
Your BR must be huge by now!
 
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zachvac

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actually most poker rooms actually use the same software. It is a random card generator and no flops are planned, no hands are planned. Now an extremely smart person (or software engineer) will tell you that the idea of a random information creator is a good idea but not possible. In software their will always be patterns. sometimes these patterns are millions of yards of written code long, but still patterns. But their are even patterns in natural dealing also that if you had a super computer would be easier to pick up than the random card generator's pattern. Hopefully this answers your question. Gl

There are NOT patterns. First off if there were you wouldn't recognize them. A computer does not know what a flush or full house is, all it does is spit out integers (I believe, it could be other data types with decimals).

Sure there's no such thing as a real random number (unless you get into quantum physics and such), but when you're using things as unpredictable as user input and server entropy on top of the normal pseudo RNGs you see that just use math (where they do arithmetic operations on certain parts of the memory depending on seed, usually time-based), it has a normal distribution and is unpredictable to the user. This means it is sufficiently random to a user. If you know the distribution (ie can know the long-run results) and can't predict any of the cards coming soon (ie don't know short-run results) then it is sufficiently random. These are all true, there is no pattern a human could recognize here, no matter how much coding, engineering, or computer knowledge you have.
 
narizblanco

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computer generated hands may not be truly random but they closer to random ness than hand shuffles by a human dealer.
 
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rivertapped

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It is not mathematically possible for a program to generate a truly "random" number. What the sites shoot for, is a number that is random enough to create a fair game that approaches randomness.

In fact, it approaches randomness closer than a human shuffler can achieve.

..... its not random at stars. Ace is "ALWAYS" floating to the top of the deck. id have to say I see ace 7 of 10 times on flops there at least.

Don't fall into the trap of believing the nonsense above.

Mathematically, an ace will flop about 23% of the time. If a site were actually flopping an ace 70% of the time it would be glaringly apparent to the players and exposed as a fraud.

With the myriad of hand tracking programs being used today, such a gross variance from the mathematical norm would not remain uncovered for long.

What DevilRaise is actually experiencing is a function of the human brain called "selective memory". He notices and remembers every Ace he sees on the flop. He notices, but selectively forgets every 4 he sees on the flop.

Even though, over millions of hands, he'll see a 4 about the same number of times that he sees an Ace, his memory will play tricks on him and lead him to believe the Ace comes a disproportionate amount of time.


P.S. DevilRaise, I'd be willing to escrow up to $1000 and bet you are wrong about an Ace appearing "7 of 10 times" at PokerStars.

We'll both send our bet to a trusted 3rd party then log onto a random table at PS and record 1000 hands. If an Ace comes on the flop 700 times or more you win.

Heck, I'll even sweeten the deal for you. If an Ace flops 650 times or more, you win.

Action?
 
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ph_il

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P.S. DevilRaise, I'd be willing to escrow up to $1000 and bet you are wrong about an Ace appearing "7 of 10 times" at PokerStars.

We'll both send our bet to a trusted 3rd party then log onto a random table at PokerStars and record 1000 hands. If an Ace comes on the flop 700 times or more you win.

Heck, I'll even sweeten the deal for you. If an Ace flops 650 times or more, you win. Action?
This sounds good to me.
 
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carpeamentum

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P.S. DevilRaise, I'd be willing to escrow up to $1000 and bet you are wrong about an Ace appearing "7 of 10 times" at PokerStars.

We'll both send our bet to a trusted 3rd party then log onto a random table at PokerStars and record 1000 hands. If an Ace comes on the flop 700 times or more you win.

Heck, I'll even sweeten the deal for you. If an Ace flops 650 times or more, you win.

Action?

I want in for $1k against ">650/1000 flops being aces" as well.
 
MrMuckets

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The likelihood of an ace appearing in the five community cards is 23%.:):):)
 
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PDMike425

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hey everyone, thanks for the info, i guess i need to get myself a super computer to win the big money. when you guys decide to play your 1000 hands, lemme know cause i'd love to watch. hate to say it but i think 7 of 10 is a little high, i'd got with 3 or 4 outta 10.
 
zachvac

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hey everyone, thanks for the info, i guess i need to get myself a super computer to win the big money. when you guys decide to play your 1000 hands, lemme know cause i'd love to watch. hate to say it but i think 7 of 10 is a little high, i'd got with 3 or 4 outta 10.

lol super computer? How about a calculator? 1 - (48/52)(47/51)(46/51) = 21.7%

Also knowing how often exactly an A flops isn't one of the big skills of winning big money.
 
SavagePenguin

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On PokerStars the cards are not predetermined. You have an Entropy generator created by Intel that uses random numbers in conjunction with user input (player mouse movements, player response time, etc.) to generate what will happen.
So if you shove the flop and win. Then suddenly you go back in time and make the same move, but this time it takes a split second longer for them to receive the data, and/or you move the mouse slightly differently, you are probably going to see different turn and river cards.

As for people seeing patterns, that's a human problem. We're designed to look for patterns, so we see short term anomalies (which aren't really anomalies) and give more credence to them than we should.

For example, the computer will see the cards as:
Card #1, Card #34, Card #50, Card #17, Card #11 (really they're ones and zeros, like 0010, 1001, 0110, 0111, etc.). But we look at it and say "Hey, those are all spades!" or "Hey, they came up 2/4/6/8/T!" or whatever. The computer doesn't care about or understand concepts like flushes or straights or that. It's just data. It doesn't even look like a pattern if you could see what the computer sees. We create the patterns in our heads.

In the IT business, we say "The problem is between the chair and the keyboard."
 
zachvac

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could not have been said any better...big stack deep in the tournament, even when fishing, guaranteed wins most of the time

@#%@#%@#@#@#@#%@#%@%#

This has been addressed before. The big stack is usually a better hand. Small stack shoves into table with a wide range. Best hand is usually the one that calls.

If y'all want to put your money where your mouth is there have been bets offered and if anyone can come up with some terms I'm open to a ton of bets up to $5k on Stars not being rigged. I'll do the ace game, big stack game in tourneys, whatever terms you want to propose, and if you only want to bet $20 that's fine (but it'll have to be worth my while, I'm not playing 100 tourneys to get the long run just to win $20, but like I'll do any amount in cash games since I'll be playing those anyway and any bet is just free money for me). So lets hear them. It's free money if you're right. You know the saying, put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise please shut up.
 
zachvac

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Yes, but why take a lower edge, when you can get a bigger one?

It's called competition lol, market rate will tend towards the actual value as competition increases :).
 
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overtop69

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I always find it funny when people complain about this site or that site. Every site is somewhat unique...but at the same time every site is practically the same. You will find bad beats everywhere....even on live tables. Take the beats and move on...that's poker....ask the pros.
 
Monoxide

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Most people dont complain, the smart ones at least.

Occasionally you get the odd "special" person like devilraise that doesnt understand basic probability and maths, and they chock it off to the poker site being "rigged".

Generally these players are terrible at poker but are too ignorant to realize themselves that they are bad at poker, so they go to the next option which is the site is fixed. Im sure if I was a complete moron I would do that too, these people are called fish.
 
dsvw56

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You must didnt read the whole thing...I said EVEN WHEN FISHING(that means there cards arent better) they still win...like when short stack goes all in with AK and big stack calls with A9 and they both flop an ace then on the river comes a 9...that kinda stuff happens all the time...and whats up with the @#%@#%@#@#@#@#%@#%@%# this is a forum based on opinions why are you getting hostile?
Because every day, trolls like you come in and spout of random useless drivel about "ZOMG, online poker is rigged" while never having any proof to substantiate such claims outside of random HH's, or the old "I seens it so's it must be true". Sir, when you have a greater understanding of poker, you will realize how big of a fool you sound like right now. To begin you on your search, I ask you this question :

The high stakes poker arena is filled with some of the smartest people in the world in the field if mathematics, statistics and probability, most of whom have databases filled with lifetimes worth of poker hands to analyze. How is it that it's come to pass that these people seemed to have missed that "online poker is rigged" while you, My. Joe Average (who's probably played no more than 10,000 hands of online poker in his life) has uncovered the greatest scandal in the history of online poker/gambling?
 
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zachvac

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You must didnt read the whole thing...I said EVEN WHEN FISHING(that means there cards arent better) they still win...like when short stack goes all in with AK and big stack calls with A9 and they both flop an ace then on the river comes a 9...that kinda stuff happens all the time...and whats up with the @#%@#%@#@#@#@#%@#%@%# this is a forum based on opinions why are you getting hostile?

This isn't an opinion, it's a simple flat out falsehood. If you want to bet on this I'll take it because what you are saying is simply false. It would be like me saying that the majority of coin flips come up heads when it's raining outside.
 
zachvac

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ok since it looks like I'm not getting action on the flop Aces bet, here's what I did.

I took all 11,207 hands I had at 200nl (woulda done more hands, but read below, basically PT2 sucks). I can't figure out how to manipulate the db with HEM, so I exported these hands, imported them into PT2, and then manipulated the access database. I put the hands into excel, and I did sorts and cut+paste to figure out how many flops had aces in them. Results:

hands: 11,207
Flops seen: 5,545
Flops with an A: 1,230
% of flops with an A: 22.2%
Expected: 21.7%
Standard Deviations away: 0.8

Now this test isn't quite exact, because whether a player has an A in their hand will also influence whether or not they see a flop, but we see here the difference is not statistically significant at any reasonable confidence interval.
 
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