Grossberger
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Monday the 13th
No prize just fun and learning since the answers can be easily looked up but that takes the fun out of it.
B
budebuzz
Rock Star
Silver Level
#1, if button is seat 2 then action starts with the seat 5 not 4
1, a
2, a
3, b
4, a
5, b
6, c
7, c
8, b
went with first instinct, always glad there is a dealer to remember the rules! whats even harder is deviding the pot when there are multiple all ins and everyone is flipping over their cards and making comments about who they think has what and who they think wins.
1, a
2, a
3, b
4, a
5, b
6, c
7, c
8, b
went with first instinct, always glad there is a dealer to remember the rules! whats even harder is deviding the pot when there are multiple all ins and everyone is flipping over their cards and making comments about who they think has what and who they think wins.
tpb221
Chasing Gutshots
Silver Level
Tygran
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
if the BTN is seat 2...then the SB is seat 3 and the BB is seat 4... so the action starts with the BB open folding?
Tygran
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Tygran
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
My answer to #2 is wrong (I think). I think that's the only one though. (only one I looked up was #4 just to confirm what I thought it was since I didn't like any options provided)
So when you said Monday the 13th did you mean
1) Saturday the 13th
2) Monday the 15th
3) September 13th (which is the next monday that falls on the 13th)
Of course it should also be noted that poker rules are not necessarily universal... just because you saw something done a certain way somewhere doesn't mean it will be that way everywhere so it's quite possible that there could be a legit disagreement on something in here.
So when you said Monday the 13th did you mean
1) Saturday the 13th
2) Monday the 15th
3) September 13th (which is the next monday that falls on the 13th)
Of course it should also be noted that poker rules are not necessarily universal... just because you saw something done a certain way somewhere doesn't mean it will be that way everywhere so it's quite possible that there could be a legit disagreement on something in here.
Grossberger
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
In OP the date is correct and yes its not universal I read Roberts rules of Poker which is what the wsop uses some tweeks can be made by the casino I understand that. ost of these situations I have seen in different casinos ruled the same way.My answer to #2 is wrong (I think). I think that's the only one though. (only one I looked up was #4 just to confirm what I thought it was since I didn't like any options provided)
So when you said Monday the 13th did you mean
1) Saturday the 13th
2) Monday the 15th
3) September 13th (which is the next monday that falls on the 13th)
Of course it should also be noted that poker rules are not necessarily universal... just because you saw something done a certain way somewhere doesn't mean it will be that way everywhere so it's quite possible that there could be a legit disagreement on something in here.
Grossberger
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
The date on my Original post 3/15 and you got 4 correct
And I got clarification on #4 last night, Which I will reveal Monday but I got the correct ruling from on of the most well known Tournament Directors around Matt Savage. He was chatting during the Bay 101 tournament and I asked the correct ruling and he answered, and it was him because I asked him to walk behind Phil Helmuth and wave at the camera and he did so it was definatly him.
Grossberger
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Ok so I made a short little quiz on some situations that can/have occured at the poker table, this is more for the live players not online. Now don't cheat and don't go into reasoning so others are not persuaded toward your answers. Just put the number of the question and what letter you think is right.
***OZ you can take this quiz but not post your answers as others will then know the correct answers
All these situations are for either tournament or cash game unless otherwise noted.
1.) Btn is seat 2. action goes seat 4 folds, seat 5 calls, seat 6 raises,
seat 7 says "I only have 1 card". Dealer should?
a. Call a misdeal
b. Give the player top card
c. Tell player hand is dead
d. Tell player hand is dead unless they want to play with 1 card
2.) Btn is seat 10. Seat 3 calls and says "I will call any raise!!", seat
4 folds, seat 5 calls, seat 6 goes all in, it folds around to seat 3
and he folds. Dealer should?
a. Allow seat 3 to fold
b. Tell seat 3 they must call as verbal is binding and play it out
c. seat 3 should have to call the raise and his cards are mucked
3.) Btn is seat 4. Seat 7 raises, seat 8 calls, all others fold. Flop
comes out, seat 7 bets, seat 8 then says "wait button is in wrong
seat, it should be in seat 3" all other players agree its in the
wrong seat. Dealer should?
a. Stop play give chips back to players and redeal with button is correct
spot.
b. Continue the hand and button goes to seat 5 next hand
c. Continue hand then put button in seat 3 next hand then seat 5 the
hand after that.
4.) Btn is seat 8. Seat 1 folds seat 2 calls folds around to btn who
calls, SB calls, BB checks. Flop comes out SB checks, BB checks,
seat 2 checks and dealer flips over turn. Btn says "I didn't check
but was going to so go ahead. Dealer should?
a. Leave the card since btn checked
b. Reshuffle only the turn card back in the deck then deal a new turn
c. Reshuffle the burn and turn back in the deck and redeal a new burn
and turn.
5.) Btn is seat 3. Seat 6 folds, seat 7 folds, seat 8 is thinking and
seat 9 says "raise" dealer says"its not on you" and seat 8 raises.
seat 9?
a. Must raise as verbal declaration is binding
b. Can raise,fold,or call
c. Can only call or fold for acting out of turn
6.) Btn is seat 5. Dealer is dealing and the second card to SB is
exposed due to dealer error and is the Ace of diamonds.
Dealer should?
a. Allow player to keep it if they want
b. Replace with the next card
c. Continue dealing and replace the card with what would be the burn
card and the Ace becomes the burn card
d. Redeal because the exposed card was dealt to the SB
7.) Btn is seat 2. action folds around to seat 8 who raises, folds to
Btn who calls and BB calls. Flop is out BB checks, seat 8 bets
all in. Seat 1 finds a card from the deck on the floor.
Dealer should?
a. Call the hand void and return the chips
b. Reshuffle the card back in the deck and continue play
c. Continue the hand and treat the card as a dead card
8.) Btn is seat 5. Seat 8 raises to $10 (in a cash game) or riases to
$200 (in tournament). Seat 9 throws out a $25 chip (in cash gm)
$1000 chip (in tournament). Dealer should?
a. Announce "Raise" from seat 9
b. Announce "call" from seat 9
c. Ask seat 9 if they are raising
_______________________________________________________________________
I will post the correct answers and reasoning in 1 week on 3/15
Ok here are the answers and explainations. Now keep in mind that I checked the answers to Roberts Rules of Poker which is used by most poker rooms as a base on their rules, and they can change how they handle some situations. I did this quiz because these are situations that come up but not as often and alot of people don't know the proper way it should be handled, these can help you run or help make a ruling in a home game or know what should happen at a casino if these ever happen to you. The italics is from the rule book.
Ok #1 answer is C I obviously had the button in the wrong starting position but in this example it wouldn't have mattered. The reason the hand is dead is because the player didn't point out they had one card before 2 people had acted on their hand, once 2 people had acted on their hand a dead hand won't be called in this situation.
Once action begins, a misdeal cannot be called. The deal will be played, and no money will be returned to any player whose hand is fouled. In button games, action is considered to occur when two players after the blinds have acted on their hands. In stud games, action is considered to occur when two players after the forced bet have acted on their hands.
The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands. An incorrect number of cards has been dealt to a player, except the top card may be dealt if it goes to the player in proper sequence. Your hand is dead if the hand does not contain the proper number of cards for that particular game (except at stud a hand missing the final card may be ruled live, and at lowball and draw high a hand with too few cards before the draw is live). [See Section 16 - “Explanations,” discussion #4, for more information on the stud portion of this rule.]
So make sure you have 2 cards before UTG and UTG+1 have acted or your hand is dead.
#2 answer is A. Again because 2 players had acted after he said what he said, he is not bound by that ruling. An action or verbal declaration out of turn is binding unless the action to that player is subsequently changed by a bet or raise. If there is an intervening call, an action may be ruled binding.
#3 answer is C. Once again since 2 players have acted the hand plays on and is corrected after the hand is completed. The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands.The button was out of position.. In button games, if it is discovered that the button was placed incorrectly on the previous hand, the button and blinds will be corrected for the new hand in a manner that gives every player one chance for each position on the round (if possible).
#4 answer is B. Ok this was one that has been challenged and rightly so, the ruling in the rule book states: . If the dealer prematurely deals any cards before the betting is complete, those cards will not play, even if a player who has not acted decides to fold. If the dealer burns and turns before a betting round is complete, the card(s) may not be used, even if all subsequent players elect to fold. Nobody has an option of accepting or rejecting the card. The betting is then completed, and the error rectified in the prescribed manner for that situation.A dealing error for the fourth boardcard is rectified in a manner to least influence the identity of the boardcards that would have been used without the error. The dealer burns and deals what would have been the fifth card in the fourth card’s place. After this round of betting, the dealer reshuffles the deck, including the card that was taken out of play, but not including the burncards or discards. The dealer then cuts the deck and deals the final card without burning a card. If the fifth card is turned up prematurely, the deck is reshuffled and dealt in the same manner. [See “Section 16 – Explanations,” discussion #4, for more information on this rule.]
ok so the rules state to take that card out and deal the turn card what would be the river then reshuffle and redeal the river card. However this is also stated in the rules: The rules given for rectifying a holdem situation where the dealer has dealt the flop or another boardcard before all the betting action on a round are inferior, because the dealer is told to not burn a card on a redeal. Since the “no burn” rule is so common, there was no choice but to use it here. It would be better for poker if the rule were changed to always burning a card. Here are these rules (the third rule and fourth rule in “Section 5 – Holdem”).
“If the cards are flopped before the betting is complete, or if the flop contains too many cards, the boardcards are mixed with the remainder of the deck. The burncard remains on the table. After shuffling, the dealer cuts the deck and deals a new flop without burning a card.”
“If the dealer turns the fourth card on the board before the betting round is complete, the card is taken out of play for that round, even if subsequent players elect to fold. The betting is then completed. The dealer burns and turns what would have been the fifth card in the fourth card’s place. After this round of betting, the dealer reshuffles the deck, including the card that was taken out of play, but not including the burncards or discards. The dealer then cuts the deck and turns up the final card without burning a card.
The portion of this rule saying the dealer does not burn a card on the redeal is inferior. It is harder for the dealer to control the card to be dealt if a burn is required. The sentence in the rule should read, “The dealer then cuts the deck, burns a card, and turns the final card.”
The present method for handling a premature dealing on the turn is used to have what would have been the last board-card used on the turn, and not reshuffling the deck until just before the last card is dealt. This method has four-fifths of the boardcards remaining the same, albeit in a different order. It would be better to reshuffle before the turn, preserving the chance of receiving the prematurely dealt card on either of the last two cards, as opposed to cutting that chance in half. The superiority of reshuffling right away is illustrated if the prematurely dealt card makes a gutshot straight-flush for a player.
After friendly debate with Tyrgran about this rule I got ruling from one of the top Tournamnet Directors around Matt Savage, in this situation he handles it where the card is put back in the deck reshuffled and then a new turn card dealt, which is consistant with my answer of B.
#5 answer is B. The verbal declaration is binding provided action has not changed since the player it was on raised it changed the action and the out of turn player was no longer commited to raise.An action or verbal declaration out of turn is binding unless the action to that player is subsequently changed by a bet or raise. If there is an intervening call, an action may be ruled binding. I learned the hardway this ruling, Action was on me ad player on my left said raise, so I thought verbal declaration was binding so since I had the nuts I raised thinking he had to raise at least the minimum of my raise, but since i changed the action he didn't have to raise. If I had just called then he would have been forced to raise and then I could of reraised him.
#6 answer is C. This is simple the only way a exposed card can cause a misdeal is if one of the first card dealt to the SB, or BB is exposed or more than 1 card is exposed. The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands.
(a) The first or second card of the hand has been exposed by a dealer error.
(b) Two or more cards have been exposed by the dealer.
#7 answer is C. 10. One or more cards missing from the deck does not invalidate the results of a hand.
#8 answer is B. 15. If you put a single chip in the pot that is larger than the bet, but do not announce a raise, you are assumed to have only called. Example: In a $3-$6 game, when a player bets $6 and the next player puts a $25 chip in the pot without saying anything, that player has merely called the $6 bet.
So there you have it. Please feel free to discuss any interparations or things I may have missed. I think that question #4 is pretty much the only one that could be ruled different in different casinos. The reason I added this rule is it actually cost me a tournament. I was the BB with AK action came to me and I was about to raise but the dealer had dealt the flop I was about to say something but I had flopped top 2 pair so I shut up, SB bet about half their stack so I reraised to put them all in and they called they had J 2 Diamonds there was 2 diamonds on board and they hit the flush. If I had told the dealer I hadn't checked then I would have been able to raise and get the J2 out of the hand.
I hope you liked this quiz I will work on coming up with some more similar quizzes. I feel these types of things are good learning tools to properly play the game in home games and help you make money in a casino or not over react when a ruling is made and you dont agree with it, because you didn't know what the actual rule was.
