Poker dilemma: Should I quit playing now?

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5miles

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If you think that is your problem, then buy in for cash games at the minimum (or very close to the minimum). Play VERY tight range AJs + KQ and TT+, then play VERY aggressively with those hands.
That's a really good advice, and I agree totally, but how many times out of, let's say, 100 hands you get a hand like AQs, TT, AK or KQs?

Many evenings I've played SUPER tight on Full Tilt cash tables, just to gradually lose more than half my buy-in blinds. And if I've just folded 40 hands, do you think anyone will even call my 4BB raise?

I'd love to see the super tight playing style pay off, but it just doesn't work in real life. I seem to always lose that way, playing only one hand in 25 or so. After 45 minutes I'm frustrated, after one rebuy the size of a half my stack, with only a fraction of my initial chips left (the blinds do cost you a lot in the long run). Finally with my last chips I go all-in with AKo, get two callers and lose to a T9o. After a couple of hours I'm minus $10 or something, after winning maybe one all-in.

Back in those days I was a winning player at the 0.10/0.25 tables only when I dared played more hands than then top ten.
 
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pogreshilly

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If you have a solid base that's great - even better if you are truly immune to tilt and for this I'm very envious :). Variance is an inevibility of poker and the way that all sensible poker players avoid it having a catastrophic effect on their bankroll is by employing Bankroll Management. As a general rule you should not be buying in for cash games where the maximum buy-in at the table is more than 5% of your total bankroll, meaning that you have 20 buyins which can numb the pain of a bad streak. The fact that not many sites have tables lower than 5c/10c might be an issue here though. The is a well of information on cardschat regarding proper bankroll management techniques and reading up about this is bound to help your game in the long run.

Stick around, read and learn :).


edit: some of the strategy articles here like this one are very helpful indeed.

Just to help this fellow out, pokerstars has excellent traffic at the 1c/2c and the 2c/4c tables, but they're no limit. If you're on a bad downswing, tho, you might want to drop $100 into your PS account for the 1c/2c NL games.
 
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5miles

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This has been a very nice discussion. Thanks for that.

I've had to change my poker game a lot. I can't play the higher stakes anymore because I don't want to risk enough money on a big bankroll, so I'm left with the psycho-maniac-beginner microtables and micro SnG's. I always seem to lose there because the other players seem to have less than half a brain. I've never been a good player against the kinds of vegetables I once was myself.

It seems I can't use the experience I once gathered anymore. It's not possible to read the beginners, it's not possible to bluff, it's not possible to have a control over a table. The only thing I can do is play super tight, hours and hours waiting for decent hands just to win what? ...maybe a few dollars. It's not inspiring anymore. Poker isn't fun anymore.

The biggest dilemma the topic refers to is that 1) I'm mostly a losing player because of bad bankroll management which leads to 2) I can't deposit more because it's not money I'm ready to lose.

My poker game is in ruin, I'm stuck at the microtables with maniacs who have just learnt to spell 'poker' and I can't concentrate. I don't even know why I should try to concentrate on the game because the money I play is so little.

I can afford putting a lot more money into poker, but I'm not ready to lose it. That's because I'm anything else than a gambler, I'm a thoughtful player, I only risk my chips when I'm on a really strong hand or when I have a good control over the table. I want to put my money on a game that I control, in a game I feel good about playing.

Poker is the best game in the world, so I can't quit it either.
 
SAH89

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Well, take a break and then come back refreshed. While on a break, play on the play money site. Try and make 1000 into 100 000 and then come back to the real money and concentrate on shorthanded SnG's and Heads Up SnG's at the $1 -$2 ish levels, whatever the buy in is.
 
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5miles

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Play money?

Well, the $1 SnG's are doing that for me. :)
 
SAH89

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Yeah, same thing depending on yur bankroll or depending on how cheap a person is, like me.
 
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I'm quitting now. I'm closing my FullTilt account (they have that option).

After 6 months I still suck: I win too little and lose too much. That's why I'm out. I can't find anything positive about my poker game, just weakness in every possible area. I don't know how I possibly could go on from here, there's no one or nothing to guide me.

Poker isn't as fun as it was back then. I haven't won pretty much anything this year, just placing 3th or 2nd every now and then in those $2 Sit & Go's. That means I lose $7 a day from my $100 bankroll, months in a row. Then I take a break and deposit more. I can't play cash games anymore, because those are even bigger losing points for me. I can't play MTT's either, because I've never even tried them.

It's just too expensive to try to learn this game. I'm not ready to lose $1,000 in a year to maybe become a better poker player. It looks like I'm not improving at all, I don't know how to actually win in this game.

I have a lot of patience and have never been on tilt. I'm a very thoughtful player and make a lot of calculations. But I don't think this is a way an adult should spend his freetime, losing money in internet poker, or maybe after years of learning, making some $5 a day with a lot of effort. I don't need that profit, I have a job.

But for those who decide keep playing, thanks, and good luck at the tables.
 
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feitr

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Here would be my advice...since you aren't US go to VC poker, CD poker or one of the several sites offering no deposit bonuses. So first advantage...you aren't using your money.

Then post hand histories. I've seen some of your posts in the tournament section and my advice would be to try and get away from the "great laydown, nice bluff" threads, and post games where people can anaylze how you play. Post hands where you play like shit and just don't know what you did wrong. Because from the few threads i have read from you, there are many simple tips that you could listen to and greatly improve your play.

So try a site that gives you free money so it doesn't matter if you blow it, post alot of games for ppl to give you tips, and don't be afraid because you aren't good atm, because only then can you really begin to become a good player.

Basic tips if you want them:

If you are playing cash games buy in for min OR max. If you buy in for max, play very tight aggressive, because at low stakes there are always donks that will pay you off. If you buy in for max you have alot more hands you can play because of much greater implied odds if you hit a big hand.

From what threads i've seen from you: raise alot more hands preflop, never try to bluff if you haven't raised into a flop PF, NEVER try to bluff a calling station and only cold bluff if you can realistically represent a hand (ie. you can convince him you hit the flop, or have an overpair etc). In general, just don't bluff until you are a much better player, who can read bluffable players well. It is a recipe for losing your entire stack unless you do it right and vs the right players (and unless you are playing decent stakes then things like bluffing 3-bet lite etc really isn't that strong). In SnGs, you can limp in with S/Cs etc or anything that gives you good implied odds early on when blinds are small, but late game SnGs it is all about playing aggressive and taking the blinds. The bubble is the time you can make an absolute killing if you are a big stack in a SnG as ppl are too conservative to call with nothing/weak hand, so you pick up so many pots. If you are a short stack, you have to wait for a hand because you can't afford to play with crappier hands, since you can't get anybody off of a pot. Hence the reason for lots of play when the blinds are small (not with crap hands but with high implied odds hands...like i would limp in with T7s etc), because it costs you very little and you get a chance to stack somebody if you hit a hand-->become big stack-->push the entire table around.
 
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5miles

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feitr: I endorse everything you say and I agree.

Those are pretty much the same things I tell to other players who are just starting out, but I think I don't have the energy to focus on improving my game at this point.

I used to be a winning — or, eh, less-losing — player last year when I played cash games only and kept developing my playing style. I also played live poker with my friends and often times walked out as the biggest winner of the night. I really loved to play the game and I kept winning money steadily for several months. Only on some separate occasions I had losing streaks for a day or two, but I still made about $80 a month (counting out the bonuses), building my bankroll.

Now if I sit in a cash table I lose a lot of money. I just worry too much, am too concerned about the strength or weakness of my starting hands, how much to bet, how to bet, when to fold, when to raise etc. I'm just not in the mood anymore because I constantly try to reach technical perfection and when I lose money, I can't figure out what went wrong. I can't build up the overall picture of what a winning poker play is, and it's killing me. I can't focus on my whole table sessions and general strategies for the day like I used to, instead I'm nervous of having to play every single hand 100% perfectly, because otherwise I'm gonna just lose more.

Previously I just sat in and tried to make money having fun with the game, but it has become more of a burden now. It has become like a bad job. The mood I play with is ”I suck and will lose a lot of money here, but maybe someday...”.

That's not how I want to play any game. It's not the money, I have it. But if I'm generally a losing player, there are no ”simple tips to greatly improve my play”, because they can't chance the situation the next day. I need to get that positive attitude of constant learning back or I'm out.

When I first opened my account on FullTilt, my password was 100% Into This. I was really trying to become good, to one day move up in stakes and make a few hundred dollars a month. That was my final goal, to play medium stakes and to win a modest amount of money in the long run. Nothing else.

It's ok, I have plenty of other things to do. I just don't know if I want to play this particular game anymore.
 
aliengenius

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Have you considered some kind of study agenda to try to improve your game? Read a book maybe?
 
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5miles

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Have you considered some kind of study agenda to try to improve your game? Read a book maybe?
Hmm... I haven't read any books but have read hundreds of articles, watched videos, learnt from more experienced players and played tens of thousands of poker hands myself. :)
 
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feitr

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yea well it is all about confidence...any game whether it be sports or whathaveyou is about confidence and attitude to a large degree.

Only would really take you a couple of SnG wins or something to chance your attitude about how you are playing. It is up to you, but know that you do not have to be a good player to be a winning player at lower stakes, because there are that many terrible players out there.

You really should post HHs tho if you want to make a go of it. It's quite easy for somebody else to look at how you played the hand and tell you how you should have played it.
 
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It is up to you, but know that you do not have to be a good player to be a winning player at lower stakes, because there are that many terrible players out there.
Well, that's pretty much the most depressing thing! :D Back when I was a student I got laudatur from almost every subject and had one of the top IQ's of our school, so there must be something wrong with the way I'm learning poker.
 
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Have you tried playing any live poker? I find it much more fun than online poker. You might find your aggressive style more suited to it compared to the micro limit online tables.
 
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Have you tried playing any live poker? I find it much more fun than online poker.
In fact, it is a lot more fun because of the social aspect. I play hold'em with my friends in home games where we buy in for €8-€20 in chips. I've actually improved my headsup play a lot in those games, but sometimes there's as many as 5 players at a table.

Live poker is more loose and I find it ten times easier to bluff and steal pots there, because you know when the other player is feeling weak about his/her game.
 
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feitr

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so there must be something wrong with the way I'm learning poker.

Well yea that is my point. Judging from the 2 threads i read, you do have some pretty fundamental flaws in your play, but nothing that can't be worked on by posting some hands and getting feedback.

Like just looking at the QQ and KJ hands that you posted. Just from the feedback in that thread, you should now know to NEVER EVER limp on the button with QQ (or anything at that stage of a SnG), and you should know to never bluff a calling station and that you should never try to bluff a pot into which you did not raise preflop.

And generalizations from those hands is probably something like you need to raise preflop with alot wider range than you currently do, and you need to learn to lay down hands like KJ when you have shown no aggression PF and have only a stab in the dark of hitting a hand.
 
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Go out and get a book by Sklansky. Hell get 2 or 3. Read them, study them, and then buy into the lowest level games and get back to basics.

Sometimes players can get so into trying to make advanced plays that they forget something fundamental.
 
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Sometimes players can get so into trying to make advanced plays that they forget something fundamental.
Yeah, I feel like I've forgotten everything about poker.

In addition, I feel like I should've quit a lot sooner and I feel like quitting now.
 
Infamous1020

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I'm in your same situation.
I've been playing online poker for about ehh a year or so, and I generally tend to run positive, well at least slightly. I dont really consider myself a losing player. Recently, no matter what I do, it seems I lose. I played a few sng's on Pokerstars yesterday, and lost 3 in a row. Not from me going in with the wrong cards, I always got sucked out. I'm not blaming online poker, I know that suckouts happen, but my BR just seems to keep going down and down, and for an 18year old with only a decent job, I cant really afford to do that. I'm at a situaton where I need to decide whether to keep playing this..
 
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I'm in your same situation.
I've been playing online poker for about ehh a year or so, and I generally tend to run positive, well at least slightly. I dont really consider myself a losing player. Recently, no matter what I do, it seems I lose. I played a few sng's on Pokerstars yesterday, and lost 3 in a row. Not from me going in with the wrong cards, I always got sucked out. I'm not blaming online poker, I know that suckouts happen, but my BR just seems to keep going down and down, and for an 18year old with only a decent job, I cant really afford to do that. I'm at a situaton where I need to decide whether to keep playing this..

What price of games are you playing in regards to your bankroll? 3 losses in a row is pretty typical.
 
Infamous1020

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I started with a 50 dollar roll, and was playing low limit sitngos like 5.50 ones. I generally cash in those, but yesterday I lost a lot. It was probably more then 3 in a row, but I'm just saying i got sucked out 3 times. I mean, ive always been able to make it through variance, but now its just depressing. I mean, I had to give up my job to go to college now, so its like I have to weigh the options of whether its worth it or not. I have no way to deposit as now my visa doesn't work, I don't have that much money to go get an all-access card, so yep..im pretty much out of money haha :)
 
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feitr

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5.50$ SnGs is alot for 50$ BR...shouldn't be playing more than 2.40$ at that BR level or yea losing 3 SnGs in a row will hurt (and you should really be able to lose like 10 before it starts getting really bad).

@ 5miles: Yea if you don't have any motivation to try and seriously improve then quitting is probably the best option...no point in playing poker if you are chronically a losing player.
 
Infamous1020

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yeah i know feitr. i need to take a break just because of bankroll management. I guess the issue was like, last year, i was killing 5.50 sng's so now this year im thinking "oh why cant i do it again"
you know, the stupid psychological aspect that I obviously have problems dealing with. Sometimes, I just dont think and it costs me my roll. I guess ill take a break, evaluate everything, and then see how i can get more money onto pokerstars lol
 
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I red a thread on the site here when I first joined. It had to do with the % of your wins against buy in and time at a prticular table. The best suggeston out of it was when U have wone 20 to 40 percent of yur buy in, move to a different table. If you play as well as u have stated it gives u an oportunity to move from a table when others are starting to get wa feel for ur play......and you might be moving into a better run of cards for urself. Worked for me on many occasions. If I'm not wrong I think AG posted this but i'm not sure.....been to long ago.
 
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billybob16

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I agree $5.50 is way too much for a $50 BR. You should always have at least 20 buy-ins for a SNG, if not much more.
 
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