Are poker coaches scam artists?

[Sivraj]

This is my personal opinion. I think there are some poker coaches out there that are scammers and there are some that actually want you to improve your game to the next level. But here's my problem with them, majority and a whole lot of poker coaches talk as if there game is guaranteed that you'll win and always be successful if you play and follow what they did which is just not always the case. I feel like poker coaches prey on beginners or bad players to exploit and take your money on selling you this dream that can or cannot come true and make extra money outside of the poker world and sucker people.

I never had a personal poker coach but I did read from poker magazines and watched the pros play on YouTube and learned certain things. I learned more about the game of poker from trial and error from fake money Apps for practicing and even real money gambling. The one thing I learned is that nobody can teach you how to be yourself in this game but yourself.

You have to utilize and do what works for you. What works for top pro players like the Negreanu, Ivey, Holz, Hansen, Koon, Esfiandiari, Dwan, and all those pros I just listed might not work for you or vice versa. What works for you might not work for the pros I just listed. There will always be winners and losers in this game.

In conclusion I think you can learn from poker coaching but I'm fully aware that these poker coaches are BS'ing around and make it seem like if you play like this poker player you will win all the time. But what people fail to realize is that these poker coaches don't talk about is every situation is different. From players, variance, the cards, the positions, just because something worked for one player is not guaranteed to work for you. Your situation might be the same but the outcome can become different and you fail.

So what do y'all think? Are poker coaches scammers just trying to sell you a dream and make more money?

 

[Kenzie 96]

No personal experience with poker coaches either, what I read on here posted by folks who do coach is they tend to stress just what you claim they don't. Just saying.

 

[infonazar]

Scammers happen in all areas absolutely, and among so-called poker coaches including. There is nothing special about this. Nevertheless, I personally have never been offered any paid courses or anything else for money. I have been playing poker for over 10 years, and I believe that there is no better way to learn than to learn from your mistakes. But in no case can we forget about our free course.

https://www.cardschat.com/become-a-winning-poker-player/

 

[619Leafs]

I would say with poker coaches look for their credentials and read their publications before paying any coach.

 

[Sivraj]

Scammers happen in all areas absolutely, and among so-called poker coaches including. There is nothing special about this. Nevertheless, I personally have never been offered any paid courses or anything else for money. I have been playing poker for over 10 years, and I believe that there is no better way to learn than to learn from your mistakes. But in no case can we forget about our free course.

https://www.cardschat.com/become-a-winning-poker-player/

I'm not completely done with the cards chat videos I think I'm on day 15. I've learned a few things but other things I picked up learning my own just playing around for years

 

[marvinsytan]

why pay for coaches if you are just playing micros and freerolls

all you can learn for free https://www.cardschat.com/poker-strategy.php

 

[ph_il]

Like anything there will be scammers and there will be legit players trying to help. If you were seeking a coach, you'd rather seek one that comes from a legitimate source.

The thing with poker is it's constantly evolving. What worked then, doesn't work now. What works now, might not work next year. Does anyone need coaching? It would depend on what you're trying to achieve. If you only play micro-stakes mtts for fun, then you probably don't need in depth coaching to beat the weaker players. If you want to constantly move up in stakes and get to the highest buy-ins, then you might need coaching eventually. You might not think you do but, consider this, even professional players seek coaching from other players/regs at certain stakes. Every pro you listed has very likely sought out some type of coaching in one way or another. BenCB, probably one of the best online high stakes mtt players today does something like 2 hours of coaching a day or week (I forget).

Again, it would depend on your goal in poker but if you think you can move up in stakes without any help along the way, you're probably going to get crushed at one level or another. It might not be necessary for you or a concern of yours at the moment and that's fine. It doesn't mean [legit] coaching is bad or BS, maybe it's just not necessary at the moment.

Also, legit poker coaches have nothing to gain by BSing anyone. They make more money off of players continuing their coaching session, as well as setting up players to improve their game. More players improve their game, word gets around and more players seek coaching. You scam 1 or 2 people, word gets around, and no one signs up anymore. So, from a business standpoint, it makes no sense for a legit coach to BS anyone because they make no money doing so.

Finally, nothing is guaranteed and nobody can ever say what's going to happen in every situation when you play, that's impossible. All coaching can do is provide you the tools and strategy to improve your game. From their experiences, they can tell you the best options for scenarios A, B, and C and what you should do in situations X, Y, and Z to maximize ev, and everything like that...but they can't play for you. So, unless someone can fully utilize what they're learning, then I agree coaching would be useless. But that's the fault of the player, not the coach.

 

[fundiver199]

"Scammers" is a pretty harsh word to use. As with any other business their will be people, who offer a good product at a fair price and others, who offer a bad and/or overpriced product. And its up to you as the consumer to pick the right offer. If a certain car is offered to you for 70.000$ and should perhaps only cost 40.000$, this does not mean, you are getting "scammed".

"Scamming" would mean, that something is promised to you but then not delivered. Like you send someone money to go over your hand histories from 10 MTTs, but then they did not do it. Or that the car was promised to be in pristine conditions with only 20.000 miles on the odometer. But it was actually involved in a major accident, badly repaired, and the odometer is manipulated by the seller to hide the real mileage of 110.000.

 

[IXIX]

I sort of wish I had a coach but I have friends ..

I have enough friends who play enough to be able to go over hand histories and get advice from if I do have a question about a hand. Honestly, I watch so much live poker and legit poker vlogs who actually seem to know what they are doing to help me understand certain lines. I think the best thing someone can do to improve their game is to watch how certain pros take lines in situations. With anything else you want to get better at you need repetition and experience to understand and get better I think

 

[lukovnikofff]

I think that not all poker trainers are scammers, it seems to me that good trainers take a lot of money for training, and they can point out to you your mistakes that you may not see from the outside! It seems to me that in any field of activity there will always be scammers, they have always been and will be, you just need to try not to run into them, but to choose according to real reviews and merits! I wish you all good luck at the tables and never cross with scammers in your life! All good!

 

[hunterws]

Lets pretend I'm a coach. What would be my motivation? To make money.
Now, if I were as good of a poker player as I claim to be, why would I not spend my time sitting at a table, instead of instructing someone?
You have to ask yourself, why is this person making more teaching than playing poker?
Those that can, do .... those that can't, teach. (old saying)

Now, it's easier to instruct (and no buy-in) someone than it is to play yourself. I bet I'd make a much better coach than player, because I know the basic rules, odds and plays, but can never make it click into cash.

Now, you can answer your question to yourself *grin*

 

[0546474]

I don’t think there are more effective ways to learn to play poker or find your mistakes than training with a personal trainer !!!

 

[Recreationalplayer]

We have scammers in all domains. There are some good coaches who help us in fixing leaks.
And there are some coaches who just sell bullshit in the name of poker courses.

 

[Sivraj]

I have enough friends who play enough to be able to go over hand histories and get advice from if I do have a question about a hand. Honestly, I watch so much live poker and legit poker vlogs who actually seem to know what they are doing to help me understand certain lines. I think the best thing someone can do to improve their game is to watch how certain pros take lines in situations. With anything else you want to get better at you need repetition and experience to understand and get better I think

This is the same thing I do I don't have a poker coach but I do watch the pros and analyze there strategies and mix up my game with them when I practice.

 

[Alizona]

I would say you're confusing a few things with such a simplistic statement or question...

Are poker coaches actually coaching poker? Well, if they're not, I'm sure you'd realize it pretty quickly, don't you?

Are poker coaches coaching GOOD poker techniques? Well... that's a harder question to analyze. Perhaps their methods won't "click" with your own mental approach to the game, that can certainly happen... perhaps you are more "in tune" with the psychological aspects of poker, but your chosen coach is much more of a mathematically-inclined teacher... this isn't a good fit for the two of you, but it is certainly not a "scam". We might have to try a number of different coaches before we find the right one for us and our own personality and approach to the game.

And the last thing I'd say about this topic is... are some poker coaches just "doing it for the money"? OF COURSE THEY ARE. Do you really think poker coaches are coaching out of the goodness of their heart? If they were... then don't you think they'd be doing it for FREE? Name me ONE poker coach that coaches for free. You can't, because they don't exist. LOL "Coaching" is simply a nice way for a good poker player to generate some additional income, some "guaranteed" income to cover themselves and their bankroll from the ups-and-downs of playing poker... are they "scamming" people? Of course not!! It's not evil in our capitalist world to sell your skills and knowledge to others, it is actually "noble" in capitalism to do so (it's not noble in God's eyes, in my humble opinion, but we don't live in a very godlike world, sadly).

A coach-student pairing is based upon a mutually beneficial relationship. The coach imparts their knowledge and wisdom upon the student, and the student compensates the coach for their time and efforts with the God of our society, which is "money". Both benefit, and since it is always a voluntary relationship, then it cannot be considered a "scam". I can understand why some might think it is, and yes there might be a few shady individuals out there selling "coaching" when they have no right to be doing so (they might not be very good at poker)... but for me these people are very easy to identify, and it wouldn't take a student very long to realize it.

If there is a "scam" involved in poker coaching, it would be the price that they charge for their services. It is difficult to put a price tag on something that involves many intangibles, and without a good measuring stick, who really knows whether you are actually getting "full value" from the exchange. As always... we leave it up to "market forces" of supply and demand to set the actual price of the transaction, and only the buyer and seller can arrive at a "fair and equitable" price for it... it essentially boils down to individual circumstance, how much the student is willing and able to pay, versus how little the coach is willing to accept. In captalism, they meet somewhere in the middle and theoretically everyone is happy at that point.

 

[Bendango329]

Poker coaches

Poker coaches.wat is a poker coach and how can he help and how deep will he dig it in my pockets ? Will he try be my friend or wat ?
One more question how do I find a poker coach?

 

[ph_il]

Lets pretend I'm a coach. What would be my motivation? To make money.
Now, if I were as good of a poker player as I claim to be, why would I not spend my time sitting at a table, instead of instructing someone?

They can do both. They very likely do both and, given how volatile poker can be at times, coaching is a steady stream of income.

You have to ask yourself, why is this person making more teaching than playing poker?
Those that can, do .... those that can't, teach. (old saying)

This doesn't apply. A poker coach has to be a winning player to a certain degree in order to coach. Nobody is ever seeking poker coaching from someone that isn't a long term winning player.

Now, it's easier to instruct (and no buy-in) someone than it is to play yourself. I bet I'd make a much better coach than player, because I know the basic rules, odds and plays, but can never make it click into cash.

You've just proven that you wouldn't make a good coach. How is anyone going to trust in what you say if it doesn't even work for you?

 

[hugh blair]

No all poker coaches are not scammers while there are scammers in every walk of life,
I will use Evan Jarvis as an example I have never paid him or any coach anything ever but I learned a lot watching many of his UTUBE poker discussions for example for free.
Heck you can even ask him anything you want and he spends time answering 100s of questions on CardsChat for example.
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/lea...-about-learning-432679/?highlight=evan+jarvis
If he earned money through UTUBE or Twitch or private coaching for example fair play to him but that is working investing time earning something back for that effort not scamming in my opinion.
I think many professional players that are coaches like to earn a little extra selling books for example or other similar revenue streams which is normal and help people improve their game as most of them really like poker.

 

[Phoenix Wright]

No experience with poker coaching here either, but as others have mentioned, I'd imagine most are solid poker coaches and it is only a few scammers which give a bad reputation.

Finding a poker coach is finding a teacher (where poker just so happens to be the subject) and not everyone is a good teacher; similarly, some are great teachers, but won't resonate with you. You'll just have to experiment a bit and find someone you think will be helpful to you AND someone whose speaking style/personality yours can mesh with.

Good luck finding the best one for you, but most are probably honest poker coaches and not scammers.

 

[hunterws]

How is anyone going to trust in what you say if it doesn't even work for you?

Boyyyyy I stepped on someones big toe!

It was an example in a general chat forum, and you feel impeded?

 

[balo]

Just buy some books instead and learn as much as possible, watch youtube videos for free, can recommend Jonathan Little .
No need to pay for a lot of hours to become a better player.

Yes some of them are better at business and coaching than playing poker.

 

[ph_il]

Boyyyyy I stepped on someones big toe!

It was an example in a general chat forum, and you feel impeded?

Not at all. Just opening it up for discussion as you're the one that brought up 'those that can, do and those that can't, teach.'

I was simply providing a counter to your post. Nothing I say is personal attack at you. I only said 'you' because you put yourself as the example.

With that said, if it came off as personal or any other way than intended, my apologies.

 

[Maxmustdie]

i would not learn from unknown coaches
there are many coaches with a good reputation on the poker forums who do not need advertising

 

[Herkstwin]

No experience with a live or online poker coach here.
But, I do equate poker books and online courses to 'poker coaching' of a sort.
I have read many poker books and watched a few online coaches.
Lots to learn - much more time commitment needed than I am willing to invest at my age. Some of it gets a little to complex for my old brain.

 

[skoldpadda]

Like anything else, do your research and hire the right people. Get references. I've used some big name pros personally for helping me improve my mixed games competency and it certainly has paid off. A very well known triple draw expert coached me in several games and helped me plug some basic leaks that hugely improved my win rate in cash games and probably had something to do with my final tabling a 2-7 event at wsop this year.

Books and videos are great but they will only take you so far if you're making errors that you're not aware of. Coaching is definitely worth it if you hire the right people.