To Play or Not Play....Big Pots

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vinny34119

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How many times have you had a big hand like Ace King (AK) and flopped top pair with a straight or flush draw on board as well? If you are playing with a bunch of donks that won't fold their draws, is it better to try and NOT bet them out, because if they catch then you are out alot of chips? Mabey betting a little is better so if they do catch you can still fold for a smaller loss.

I guess the delemma is this: If you know you can't bet them out, do you
A.) bet it anyways cause if they miss then you have their chips,
but if they hit you are screwed.

B.) bet a little and and if they hit you can get away from the hand,
but if they miss then you missed out on what you could have won.

Please post your thoghts, because I have thoght about this alot!
 
MrDaMan

MrDaMan

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If you "Know" you can't bet them out, you need to "know" what they're holding or at least have a better than general idea.

In this way you bet for information, considering who your opponents are, style and how they play. Decide how much of a bet they're willing to chase depending on what you think they're chasing dependent upon the texture of the flop.

Force your opponents to reveal their strengths or weakness's by betting into them and read their reactions via tell, call, fold or re-raise. You know the strength of your hand, you need to have a VERY good guess about the strength of theirs.

If you read them strong perhaps you'll need to check the turn, or bet out again, depending again on the texture of the board, what you have and what you think they are chasing.

Experience is the best teacher of this lesson, confidence in these abilities comes with experience. Good Luck :D
 
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Guittars

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if you think you have the lead at the time, then the right thing to do is bet. If you think your opponent is on a draw, then you need to make the bet enough so that if they call, they are making a mistake. i.e. they're not getting the right odds to call. or so the theory says.

if you're in a tournament - you've got to figure out the impact it will have if you lose or if you win.

G
 
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dougiefresh1234

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big slick responce

if i have big slick i usually raise maybe 2 or 3 times the blind, whoever calls i wait for the flop if i catch i check then if they bet ill push. if its a quick call they usually will have aces too but with a weaker kicker, so id say push , go hard or go home.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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What did Phil Gordon (and probably countless others) say? Big hand, big pot, small hand, small pot?

I'd tend to agree.

In this specific case, are we playing against one opponent, or multiple ones? Playing against one opponent who won't fold their draws, I'd probably be happy to play a big pot. We've got a relatively big hand, and we're probably a 65-35 favourite or more.
 
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1122phoenix

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When the pros get their money in with the "best of it" (best hand) they don't seem to be bothered by a bad beat. I think this is probably the best attitude and route to take. If u have Ak and flop top pair top kicker, go for it. if you dont think they flopped a set or better. Their worse kicker with the turn and river to come is only about 10% to catch. Let the donkeys chase.
 
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1122phoenix

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Also the donkeys that chase gut shots and runner/runner long odds need you to have a deep stack to make these things pay off in the long run. So if you are playing in a cash game, make sure you are small stacked so they cant take advantage of the implied odds. GL at the tables.
 
arkadiy

arkadiy

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What did Phil Gordon (and probably countless others) say? Big hand, big pot, small hand, small pot?

I'd tend to agree.

In this specific case, are we playing against one opponent, or multiple ones? Playing against one opponent who won't fold their draws, I'd probably be happy to play a big pot. We've got a relatively big hand, and we're probably a 65-35 favourite or more.

I don't tend to agree, a lot of times my biggest pots come from small limping hands that hit really big when my opponent has a big hand that also hit.
 
momoney2

momoney2

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I don't tend to agree, a lot of times my biggest pots come from small limping hands that hit really big when my opponent has a big hand that also hit.

I think the quotation goes with the state of your hand at the time that you are attempting to make the pot big or keep the pot small. So if you flop a big hand like a set, straight, or flush, then that is the time when you want to make the pot big. If on the other hand you flop something like middle pair, or a straight or flush draw, that is when you would prefer to keep the betting small.

For the OP, I would make your drawing opponents pay a high price for the privilege of drawing. As was noted before; I think Sklansky discusses this, as well as many other noted poker authors; you want your opponents to make mistakes. When they make mistakes, you win. When you mistakes, they win. If you don't bet enough to make their draws unprofitable, and you provide good pot odds to your opponent, then you are making a big mistake. If you "know" that you are ahead and that they are on a draw, then you have to try to extract as much money from them as possible. You have to try to force them into making mistakes. You will still take bad beats, but in the long-run you will come out ahead.
GL :)
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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I think the quotation goes with the state of your hand at the time that you are attempting to make the pot big or keep the pot small. So if you flop a big hand like a set, straight, or flush, then that is the time when you want to make the pot big. If on the other hand you flop something like middle pair, or a straight or flush draw, that is when you would prefer to keep the betting small.

Exactly - 67o can be a big hand if the flop comes 345 rainbow, while KK can be a small hand on a AQJ suited flop. This is the reverse of what you'd expect from these hands pre-flop.
 
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bill_nj

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If your opponent has 1 chance in 5 of winning and you have 4 chances in 5 of winning wouldn't you want as much money in the pot as possible?

In a tournament though you need to also consider your position relative to the money and the relationship between your stack sizes.
 
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