Negreanu v hellmuth

  • Thread starter David macdonald
  • Start date
David macdonald

David macdonald

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Total posts
3,474
Awards
18
Chips
272
This is such an interesting topic I could literally talk for hours on.

So we have negreanu the newly educated GTO modern player v old school hellmuth that has insane reading abilities.

Personally I like hellmuth as a player but I'm not a fan of his personality, the way he behaves like the world owes him something. I mean who cares you sucked out,get over it! happens to us all we don't cry like you do.

Negreanu is highly intelligent and I respect him so much, he is one of my favourite tournament players with insane reading abilities and math.

I watched all of Doug Polk v negreanu and I learned alot about poker, but I took my own theory from the game and that is you need a little bit of everything to be a real good player.
Good reads, math, GTO and everything else.

I subscribed to poker go to watch the exciting duel of these two where I really expected Daniel to wipe the floor with hellmuth.

Well what happened ? I know exactly what happened! Daniel negreanu has educated himself very well and told hellmuth he would wipe the floor with him using the GTO, but he failed miserably . He talked a good game but he did not implement it at all.

Phil hellmuth is a tight player that likes to trap his opponents, he's very predictable and he bets small when he is strong and big when he's weak. He has a habit of finding good spots to do it and has actually got into Daniels head.

Daniel my friend you have failed miserably,I watched him play in both the first two matches and he made so many mistakes and bad plays it was insane. Why the hell did he not play the way he said he was going to and the way we know would work.

Daniel had Phil in the first match and should have had him crushed but he let Phil back into the game , omg he played so weak.

Second game was similar Daniel had Phil crushed and he could have went all in and would have been called but by some miracle he let Phil away with losing a small pot. Then again when he had 97 diamonds to Phil's 10 high diamonds if he was playing GTO he would have been all in on the turn but he let Phil shove on the river then folded. Omg Daniel what where you thinking???

I consider myself a very good heads up player and I am going to talk about this in more detail on my twitch channel.

If you need to win you go for it ,he had a straight flush draw , should have banged it in on the turn. It's a risk but you need to do that heads up. Its like if you play aggressive poker HU and you win the first match you will be more aggressive on the 2nd match with less outs in some situations because you can afford to loose and two wins puts you in amazing shape. This situation is similar because Daniel loses this pot and is a 3-1 dog with 50k then he's at a major disadvantage so he should have went for it to save his game . He simply just crumbled.

Daniel gets tired and his mental game suffers at the later stages against a patient player that grinds. Daniel is really bad at heads up and can't finish his opponents off . This amazes me for a guy that's so educated but can't put it into action.

I actually want to talk more about the specific hands on twitch. Daniel just lost his bottle and for me he just seems confused and hurt.

Lastly he goes into the Polk game uneducated and learns as he plays and improves which is great for a basic heads up player . But you can't think you are then good enough to play hellmuth . You need to learn to put it into action then play hellmuth. I mean practice lots of heads up then your ready.
 
abgvedr

abgvedr

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 14, 2021
Total posts
1,270
Chips
60
I consider myself a very good heads up player and I am going to talk about this in more detail on my twitch channel.


When? I wana watch. You talking good stuff.
And yes very weak play from Neg. Be like 3 to 97 chip leader and lose in the end. SMH.
 
David macdonald

David macdonald

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Total posts
3,474
Awards
18
Chips
272
When? I wana watch. You talking good stuff.
And yes very weak play from Neg. Be like 3 to 97 chip leader and lose in the end. SMH.
It's on poker go at the moment mate.
 
GARCIA PABLO DANIEL

GARCIA PABLO DANIEL

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Jun 17, 2019
Total posts
857
Awards
1
AR
Chips
41
hello

the two great poker players I lean towards Daniel Negreanu I consider him more calm perseptive !! Hellmut is very anxious and trusts his personality a lot in his hand and crashes very often !! and she denies her luck a lot and that made her lose many poker hands ...
 
David macdonald

David macdonald

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Total posts
3,474
Awards
18
Chips
272
the two great poker players I lean towards Daniel Negreanu I consider him more calm perseptive !! Hellmut is very anxious and trusts his personality a lot in his hand and crashes very often !! and she denies her luck a lot and that made her lose many poker hands ...
I disagree with this quote, hellmuth is not anxious at all .

Anyway he played great poker and won all 3 games.
 
phoenixKK

phoenixKK

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Total posts
134
BR
Chips
29
I like both .but I prefer Daniel,he is more hilarious!Every time I see a tournament with his partcipation of course I will laugh with his jokes.
 
D

DS3

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Total posts
7,480
Awards
1
GB
Chips
201
Negreanu and Helmuth are both great players- no one can claim otherwise. But people are seldom objective with either player - they tend to rate both through likability rather than skill.

Helmuth can be grating and it is not an act - I have always thought him on the spectrum - at times he cannot keep a lid on his outbursts. Negreanu is grating in a different manner in the sense I find him disingenuous - he frequently says one thing then does the opposite etc.

Negreanu's recent stumbles with Polk and then Helmuth were because he believes his own BS. He went into the Polk match unprepared then kept relating he was being coached and how he had developed into 'GTO' player, but it just sounded like so much hooey to me (the coaching was real but the evolution not so much). He lost and then he (and plenty of others) described it as a $1.2 million dollar invaluable lesson that would stand him in good stead for the future as he had now elevated his game. Really?

He then spent the entire build up to the duel with Helmuth running Helmuth down....and continued even after the first loss...then the second loss.

Anyone familiar with Negreanu knows he believes in a positive mental approach to life but he crosses into that dodgy territory of if you believe it enough (in this case his own BS) then 'it will happen'. I don't believe he has ever grasped GTO properly, let alone how to implement it. And the big giveaway regarding this and Negreanus bluster is why would that even be applicable against Helmuth - he is about as un-GTO as it gets.

So two great players faced each other down with Helmuth being hyper conscious of what he was up against but with Negreanu a relentless gusher of braggadocio regarding his superior play - trying to convince everyone and himself a walkover was imminent.

For all Helmuth's irritating traits (there are many) if you listen to him he admits he does not really believe he can beat the real wizards of todays game - the Chidwicks, Koons and Peters. So he is astute and selective about who he plays - when and how. On the other hand Negreanu's ego gets the better of him as he wants desperately to stay relevant, but can't see the wood for the trees. Negreanu is relevant as one of the greatest poker players ever. However, Helmuth, under his facade has a humility about his game whereas Negreanu doesn't, which has become his Achilles Heel in recent years.
 
gocho2009

gocho2009

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Total posts
343
Awards
1
Chips
0
Two great players, but definitely Daniel's personality is more pleasant
 
johnny tigre

johnny tigre

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 4, 2016
Total posts
585
Awards
1
Chips
23
I agree, daniel is a more likeable player than hellmuth. He takes bad beats with a smile and does not curse or berate other players.
Although i think helmuth is kinda mellowing down a little bit, from some videos i saw of him.
 
D

DS3

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Total posts
7,480
Awards
1
GB
Chips
201
I agree, daniel is a more likeable player than hellmuth. He takes bad beats with a smile and does not curse or berate other players.
Although i think helmuth is kinda mellowing down a little bit, from some videos i saw of him.

Negreanu got banned from Twitch for a month over one specific profanity laden rant where he also physically threatened a viewer of his live stream.

In fact Negreanu's alter ego (profanity laden vulgarian) was exposed on his own live streams at the wsop on line (where he played from mexico) through to his epic post stream outbursts against Doug Polk during his on-line duel.

Not quite sure how any fan of Negreanu is not fully aware of Negreanu's 'other' side at this point
 
Top