Nationalities in poker and play styles

Does the nationality of players influence your game?

  • I don't even look/ask for it?

    Votes: 8 29.6%
  • I don't it does

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • It might influence me a bit

    Votes: 17 63.0%
  • I'm f* scared of some!

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • Total voters
    27
Moonchild

Moonchild

Rock Star
Hi guys and girls ;) . About two weeks ago I saw a thread about the aggressiveness of Russian Players. I cannot find it right away now, but I'll search for it again and post the Thread here later. But since I've read it I was asking myself: 'Could it be that there's a link between the nationality and their playing styles? Of course I don't mean the style of an individual player, but more in general. And don't understand me wrong: I'm not saying it like a prejudgement in a racist way. I'm just wondering if cultural characteristics in personalities are being seen in poker styles and maybe in other games or sports? I do understand very well they are generalizations but see it like this; "templates are always useful, but are never a total coverage. They relate to reality as a skeleton for a living body. "

F.ex.
  • Overall Italians are being seen as passionate, impetuous, macho, demonstratively, sensitive, chauvinistic, ... So does this mean they play poker more passionately and therefore more aggressively?
  • Russians: Brave, self-sacrificing, megalomaniac, little bounderies, extreme,... -> extreme play, aggressive?
  • Americans: contradictory, superstitious, ambitious, striving, open, ... -> so more different styles, more willing to study, chatty and bluffing more because of high self-esteem? And maybe more reckless 'cause more money-minded?
  • Brazilians: creative, passionate, endearing, flexible, seize the day, ... -> so more reckless and creative in their game?
  • Bulgarians: stubborn, sly, smug, cold, hard ... -> unpredictable, hard in the game, Sharks?
  • The English: conservative, extensive individualism (islanders), importance of knowledge, defensive, ... -> more conservative but smart in their games and more debating in their table talk (W. Kassouf :D)?
  • As I am Belgian, I will include the Belgians too: efficient, structured, modest, closed, cynical, prejudicial, fearful, cautious -> more poker ABC playing, paranoic about bluffs, not that chatty, ...
And so on ... So I wonder what your thoughts are about this subject. And again ... I do acknowledge that those are generalisations but even in them can be some truth. Another question I have on this subject is: do you look on the table what nationalities your opponents have and does it have an influence on your decision making, even if it's small? f.ex. are you more careful with Russian players on your table?

And please ... I don't want to hear hateful replies ... every culture has its good and bad specificities ... I just want to start a hopefully interesting discussion about this subject. And I also acknowledge/presume that the poker pro's worked on this 'issues' with their (mental) coaches and their studies goes well above their 'cultural specifics' ... but you know what I mean (I hope).

So let me hear your thoughts and give me your examples! ;) I'll start by saying that the first years of my poker playing online (MTT's) I was afraid of the Russians ... I learned to adept more to the aggressiveness and especially understanding the psychology behind the game and the players helped me a lot to deal with more typical dangerous play styles.
 
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Dunc8b

Dunc8b

Visionary
"templates are always useful, but are never a total coverage. They relate to reality as a skeleton for a living body. " As you put this in quotes I would be interested in who you were quoting.

I have a criticism of your observations, or rather your presentation of your observations. You seem to be only dealing in male characteristics. I'd find it hard to agree that italian woman are "macho" for example.

While the majority of players are male more and more women are playing. Arguably because when playing online there isn't an immediate gender bias from the other players. Though player names do give a big clue sometimes. But my own observations suggest that relying on player names and/or avatar photos is not reliable. I have an alternative nickname and avatar on william hill (I think) because i was curious to see if I would be able to detect a change in how others played against me. That experiment stalled because of a shortcoming in my own poker skills :D

I think that the opposite may be true in that there are women that are selecting gender neutral names or "male" names to anonymise their gender.

But I am digressing I think.

My Vote was that I don't bother looking. If someone is playing aggressively then I do sometimes check their details as displayed in the game. When I do this I tend to find some conforming to your observations in that it'll typically be a player from the former soviet block who is playing very aggressively with all-ins with cards I would have folded. But not always and that experience is not enough for me to say "all soviet players are..." That recklessness usually doesn't keep them in the game for long. It's just matter of waiting a while and not getting sucked into playing a hand you should have folded.

Finally, as I should be in bed and do have work in the morning - are you sure you are from Belgium? "...not that chatty, ..."??!! Could talk the hind-legs off a donkey, as they say round my way. :)

I look forward to more of your postings
 
woohoo sue

woohoo sue

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I find her very chatty too bigD and i like it!
I chose it might influence me. because i too am a curious foe. When available i do look to see "where from" not becAuse i have a How to play formula based by country. I go by the more info you have the better so i snoop all about and if i could look in your medicine cabinet i would so don't invite me to a home game.lol.. I guess if i saw enough players of like origin having like tells i may think interesting and try to set that as precedent. But in the end I would hope my brain would overpower my lust to compartmentalize and say throw this info out because it may keep you from reading actual play habits of the individual.
Hey look at me ...I'm chatty too ..are Americans chatty? or is it my feminine trait? or could it be that I'm next to the last of seven siblings?
online poker players have a range of hands, call points, bet frequency/range/speed, ect. Let's not muck up that info with gender/race.
 
thaysen13

thaysen13

Visionary
I am to a belgium nice to see some plauers of our country in cardschat!!!
 
Moonchild

Moonchild

Rock Star
@Dunc8b
"templates are always useful, but are never a total coverage. They relate to reality as a skeleton for a living body. " As you put this in quotes I would be interested in who you were quoting.

:) Yeah, I heard this a while ago on a Dutch documentary and found it a good way of saying. But, I don't remember the name of the person in the docu, so I can't tell you that. But since I did not invent it exactly myself, I found it more neat/fair to put it in quotes.

I have a criticism of your observations, or rather your presentation of your observations. You seem to be only dealing in male characteristics. I'd find it hard to agree that italian woman are "macho" for example.
Criticism is what forums are for! :) You are really going for details, seemingly.:p I especially did not include the difference in genders here ... that would make the influence of nationalities even more complicated. That being said, of course there's al lot to say and think about when it comes to men vs. women playing. But that'll be for another Thread and day.

My Vote was that I don't bother looking. If someone is playing aggressively then I do sometimes check their details as displayed in the game. When I do this I tend to find some conforming to your observations in that it'll typically be a player from the former soviet block who is playing very aggressively with all-ins with cards I would have folded. But not always and that experience is not enough for me to say "all soviet players are..." That recklessness usually doesn't keep them in the game for long. It's just matter of waiting a while and not getting sucked into playing a hand you should have folded.
So your vote maybe wasn't completely right, since you do check sometimes.:p But I agree totally agree that one cannot say that all people from a nationality have the same playing styles. That's why I made the quote of the templates and said that the higher the quality level one is playing from (excellent players and pro's) the lesser the chance may be that the 'typical' characteristics of the nationality comes through. And yeah, it makes you a better player when you can create your own playing style with enough variation. True true true! But lots of members of CC and on the tables maybe aren't as good as they might think. I include myself here: I acknowledge I sometimes think I'm better than reality might be. :( But knowing that/being aware of that can help me to evolve to the next level. And one part of Poker that is being overseen by a big group of amateur players is psychology. And a part of psychology is the specific characteristics of an individual. And nationality characteristics is a part of that. Fjieuwwww .... :icon_geek
So ... that's why I posted this thread, with my questions. I don't want to state I know everything. Not at all! I just find it interesting to think about and let others think about it.

are you sure you are from Belgium? "...not that chatty, ..."??!! Could talk the hind-legs off a donkey, as they say round my way. :)
:D As far as I know. My parents didn't reveal to me that I'm adopted ... yet! But you are totally right. I'm not a typical Belgian in many ways! I'm very open, have a driven personality, chatty as hell and very passionate. I'm more like a mix of people from Holland and the Mediterranean.

But ... that being said: you might be interested in this links I found on the subject: http://www.bluffeurope.com/poker-ne...ionality-Can-Influence-Playing-Style_734.aspx
https://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/Different-countries-different-styles_03092/

I'll post more on another moment ... still have alot to say:D until the hind-legs of your donkey fall off, but now my stomach is shouting for dinner.

(reminder for myself and something to think about for the others: could it be that typical games of a nationality have an influence on poker ... f.ex. Russians and chess)
 
diego farfan

diego farfan

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In my opinion I do not think that influences at all the nationality of a person
 
Dunc8b

Dunc8b

Visionary
The quote is a good one and I will try and remember it for if and when I use it in my volunteer work as a counsellor.

I saw that the characteristics were how I would describe the male of the country. I agree that adding gender would complicate your 1st post / question hugely.

I check after an event in someone's play, not before. If I look at everyone's details on the table it's out of curiosity (and a slow game)
I don't sit at a table and check everyone first.

I will check the link soon, but not tonight :)

The last point you raise mentioning chess is an interesting one.
Are all Russians very good at chess OR do all successful players adopt the same style of a successful Russian? Or American or Italian or Green Man from Outer Space.
I think I see some poker players who play to a style they have been taught or have read about and seem inflexible and only play in that style.

Enjoy your eats.
 
onondaga

onondaga

Ukraine
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In every nations you can find different type of players, dont look at nationality, look at what kind of player play against you!
 
Moonchild

Moonchild

Rock Star
I find her very chatty too bigD and i like it!
I chose it might influence me. because i too am a curious foe. When available i do look to see "where from" not becAuse i have a How to play formula based by country. I go by the more info you have the better so i snoop all about and if i could look in your medicine cabinet i would so don't invite me to a home game.lol.. I guess if i saw enough players of like origin having like tells i may think interesting and try to set that as precedent. But in the end I would hope my brain would overpower my lust to compartmentalize and say throw this info out because it may keep you from reading actual play habits of the individual.
Hey look at me ...I'm chatty too ..are Americans chatty? or is it my feminine trait? or could it be that I'm next to the last of seven siblings?
online poker players have a range of hands, call points, bet frequency/range/speed, ect. Let's not muck up that info with gender/race.
I'm loving your post sue!:party: It doesn't happen that much that I LOL reading this forum, but I did with you. In a good way! Not only are you a chatty American female player from a very large family:eek: , you're a funny one too! I think that's not that typical American characteristic, looking at the recent elections in your country. :p

That being said: I'll post a part out of the article I found online (you can see the whole link in my other post) on this subject. Seemingly my questions weren't that crazy after all. :p
"After observations made by the people at Everest, they have concluded a player’s nationality can have a profound affect on their playing style.
Everest Poker's European Event Coordinators spent the past 6 months observing the characteristics of each nationality during poker tournaments, both at live events & online, to see if National characteristics are visible in the way countries play the game.
Now for the interesting bit: their findings!
Sweden - Robert Dahlström, Everest Poker's Swedish Event Coordinator, said Swedish players tend to be very aggressive and enjoy taking risks. 'Sweden was one of the first countries where the online poker boom really took off so they have had a head start,' he said.
Spain - The Spanish are new to the game but are catching on fast. Paloma Benito, Everest Poker's Spanish Event Coordinator said this is due to the fact that many Spanish poker players come from a chess background and their analytical skills are very strong. 'This is not what other Nations expect from the Spanish and as a result Spain is quickly becoming one of the stronger poker playing nations in Europe,' Benito said.
Germany - Poker is also relatively new to Germany, but players in this country often play above their skill level to gain valuable experience. 'Thousands of poker books that have been sold in 2007 and they take their learning very seriously. German players often prefer to play against the professionals, knowing they will lose some money, in order to gain experience,' said Olaf Schimpf, Everest Poker's German Event Coordinator.
UK - Ed Pownall, Everest Poker European PR Manager, stated: 'Like the national stereotype, players from the UK are reserved and cautious, especially early on, and take their time to get into a game. While this can be a good tactic, if there are particularly aggressive players the lack of risk-taking can cost the Brits in tournament play,' he said.
Italy - Be wary of the Italians, said Marco Trucco, Everest Poker's Italy Event Coordinator, because their poker players tend to be 'quite impulsive and unpredictable.' Their tendency to be loose and bluff often comes from their mastery of Italian 5-card draw. 'Italian players love the action, rate super-aggressive players and play to win big,' Trucco said.


One remark about that: it could be that they learn from each other. I think lots of people tend to support people from their own country, follow them more, watch them more, read more in their own language, so maybe that's a factor when it comes to similarities.

Okay, and then something to close this post with: Since you're also a girl/lady/woman (whatever you prefer) ... you might want to have a look at another thread I made about MTT's just for women (yep ... genderrelated this time:eek: ... you might get :eek: now ... one could think I put everyone in boxes ... I think I don't, but I can't forget the template thing) -> I'm curious about your findings on that subject too: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/all-girls-womens-mtts-308552/
 
CriesuaID

CriesuaID

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I don't even look. I don't think that are a standard between players of the same country.
 
Moonchild

Moonchild

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I am to a belgium nice to see some plauers of our country in cardschat!!!

:D Hi thaysen. Indeed. Nice to see. You're the first I met here! Where in Belgium are you from? (Leuven here)

And looking at your post you do require to specifics of the Belgian people: efficient, modest, rather closed, not that chatty ;)

Hope to hear more from you another time! And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this subject, 'cause we, Belgians, may look stupid for some (ik denk nu aan de Belgenmoppen van de Hollanders), but we can be silently smart as hell:icon_bigs ! ;)
 
thaysen13

thaysen13

Visionary
:D Hi thaysen. Indeed. Nice to see. You're the first I met here! Where in Belgium are you from? (Leuven here)

And looking at your post you do require to specifics of the Belgian people: efficient, modest, rather closed, not that chatty ;)

Hope to hear more from you another time! And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this subject, 'cause we, Belgians, may look stupid for some (ik denk nu aan de Belgenmoppen van de Hollanders), but we can be silently smart as hell:icon_bigs ! ;)
I am close to Gent, (deinze). I hooe i see you at some cc tables.
 
shody

shody

Rock Star
My vote goes to It might influence me a bit, everytime when is a big pot or someone puts me all in,im looking at their country,i know Canadians are good players,also German,netherlands so theres a bit of influence of opponent nationality.
 
Dejange

Dejange

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I voted "It might influence me a bit", because of the facts you outlined in the first post. When there are a lot of Russians, I am trying to modify my game on their specifics, and the same when the Americans are majority...
But in general, I am studying each player personally - in order to determine my actions on the table. Sometimes win, sometimes loose :)
 
Moonchild

Moonchild

Rock Star
My vote goes to It might influence me a bit, everytime when is a big pot or someone puts me all in,im looking at their country,i know Canadians are good players,also German,Netherlands so theres a bit of influence of opponent nationality.
Hi there Shody! Good to see you here too! :) Well ... I was not really talking about how good people are. :D I think in every country you can have great players. I think the most of us play mini or medium stakes, so there the level of playing will be lower overall.

I was more speaking about the playing styles of different nationilities ... so f. ex. tight vs. loose, passive vs. agressive, every thing in between and all the combinations. Some people might play more tricky or straight forward. And like I said ... I was wondering if you see a link between nationalities and some styles.
 
LCool888

LCool888

Rock Star
I'm always more aggressive against Brazilians and Russians, I could say that 80% of the players from those countries I've been in a table with are "maniacs" (I think it's because I play mostly freerolls and they don't care since it's free) so I can say it influences me a bit.
 
A

alex_Romejz

Enthusiast
I am Honduran and i think there's not relation the nationality with the poker style of the opponent if a player is a good player it doesn't matter his country.
 
H

heix24

Rock Star
if you reach top 50 players, than i've found mostly game changed to more serious play and the aggressors also start to actually play
 
D

dapari

Rising Star
Well I do not really think that each country has a form of play in each of its players but if it is to risk my opinion I think that in my country we play very conservative we need a more standard form of game to attack from the beginning from the blind and then On the flop but always with a fixed eye to the opponent so that he does not find any surprise .. I think that the countries that have a very difficult and great poker are some of europe and in america brazil have an ideal standard game that allows them to control all the game ..
 
wagon596

wagon596

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I find that it seems Russian and Brazilian players are more aggressive.
 
Moonchild

Moonchild

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Well I do not really think that each country has a form of play in each of its players but if it is to risk my opinion I think that in my country we play very conservative we need a more standard form of game to attack from the beginning from the blind and then On the flop but always with a fixed eye to the opponent so that he does not find any surprise .. I think that the countries that have a very difficult and great poker are some of europe and in america brazil have an ideal standard game that allows them to control all the game ..
Hi dapari. I have the feeling you say some contradictory things. I might be the language barriers, 'cause I'm not completely sure about your opinion. On the one hand you seem to say there's no link between nationalities and playing styles, but on the other hand you talk about the conservativeness of players from your country and that Americans and Brazilians have an ideal standard game.

Can you maybe explain a little more? F.ex. What do you understand under ideal standard game? Is there something like an ideal standard game? Aren't the best players changing their tactics often, so they stay unpredictable for the others? And I also got curious to what country you come from? And what kind of poker games are you talking about: what stakes?

I ask this last questions, because I see many people talking about the aggressiveness of the Russians and Brazilians, but I also hear lots about the crazy playing in freerolls. Maybe many chardchat members play alot of freerolls and they see the aggressive Russians and Brazilians there? Both of this countries are huge and poker seems to be popular in both, so chances are bigger they have more crazy agressive players in f.ex. freerolls. For players in those freerolls, it might seem that f.ex. most Russians play more aggressive, but maybe %wise the difference with f. ex. America or West-Europe is not that big. Again ... I'm not stating that I know this is the truth, I'm just asking questions in the hope to understand better why it seems there are links between nationalities and playing styles.

At the moment I'm also doing a little research on the history of poker players, and their nationality and other cultural likes in f.ex. brain games, like chess. Don't get to excited, I don't have the time to do 'academical' research ... I'm just going to look if there are some lines to find. ;)
 
D

dejan85

Visionary
I dont look in that kind juste make a diffrents between good and bad poker player whatever nationality he or she is.....
 
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