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chattin35
Enthusiast
Curious what the forum thinks is easier to do - move from cash to tournament play or tournament to cash game play. Which type of player has a bigger edge when switching formats and why?
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bigjoker66
Visionary
Cash to tournament is a much easier transition. Tournament are usually more short stack play than ring cash games which tend to be deeper. in tournaments it is not uncommon to be 20-50bb most of the time. Cash ring games especially live you are 300-500bb deep a lot which is a whole different game.
That being said, I think beginners should start playing tournaments since you get alot more play for the $s you loose learning.
That being said, I think beginners should start playing tournaments since you get alot more play for the $s you loose learning.
salim271
Legend
+100! I still have huge problems with cash games even at 2nl... which is a bit embarrassing to admit, but I just do
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tomh7795
Visionary
+100! I still have huge problems with cash games even at 2nl... which is a bit embarrassing to admit, but I just do
Lol r u my twin. I do well at sng and tourneys but when it
comes to cash I lose lose and guess what lose lol. I can now beat 2nl
woooohooooo lol. Cash games aren't for me. I'll stick to sng and tourneys which I can do
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budebuzz
Rock Star
Definatily cash to tourny is harder IMO, I'm glad I started out doing tournaments because the patience is very hard for me anyway but I was forced to do it in order to win, not just the hand play but the length of time needed to concentrate and stay focused. I now play cash games too and see many of my styles work fine in cash and I can get up when I'm ahead instead of grinding in a tourny. I like both though. I think if I started in cash I personally would never have gotten this far in tourny style.
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
The biggest tip I have for people when switching from Tourney to Cash games is to play less hands. Because you are shorter stacked much of the time late in a tournament, the push and pray mentality comes in when you see someone in front of you that is likely to fold because you need to steal blinds sometimes to stay alive, it doesn't always matter what the cards are.
In cash games, you have more of an option of playing what you want. You regularly see people who are playing 35+% of their hands and they are just bleeding chips because they are playing way too many hands, so if you are playing anything below 20% of your hands, you can be doing a lot better. Get rid of your Arag off and your face card with low suited card...it isn't going to help you in the long run. Play your good cards aggressively and get rid of the crap ones. Obviously, depending on who's at your table, you might want to push some of those cards in certain situations, but don't make it a habit.(example: you're on the BTN and the SB and BB have VPIP's of 10-15%, you should be raising with any two cards when it's folded around to you, because they will fold their blinds the majority of the time.
In cash games, you have more of an option of playing what you want. You regularly see people who are playing 35+% of their hands and they are just bleeding chips because they are playing way too many hands, so if you are playing anything below 20% of your hands, you can be doing a lot better. Get rid of your Arag off and your face card with low suited card...it isn't going to help you in the long run. Play your good cards aggressively and get rid of the crap ones. Obviously, depending on who's at your table, you might want to push some of those cards in certain situations, but don't make it a habit.(example: you're on the BTN and the SB and BB have VPIP's of 10-15%, you should be raising with any two cards when it's folded around to you, because they will fold their blinds the majority of the time.
BelgoSuisse
Legend
The only hard thing about switching from cash to tournaments is deciding on which surgeon will perform the lobotomy. Switching from tournaments to cash actually requires growing a brain, which is a lot tougher...
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
lol, nice way to put it belgo
Monoxide
Cardschat Elite
cash games are infinitely more difficult.
tournies are luckfests generally you must win lots of flips to succeed, because blinds force bets and you often are playing with a short/mid size stack... cards become very essential as opposed to cash.
tournies are luckfests generally you must win lots of flips to succeed, because blinds force bets and you often are playing with a short/mid size stack... cards become very essential as opposed to cash.
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bigjoker66
Visionary
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Tonawanda
Visionary
A little respect please
Would agree that the transition from tournament to cash is much more difficult.
BUT, very good players find ways to win minimizing coin flips, playing better hands on a consistent basis. Winning 1000's of hands against many different player styles in constantly changing situations to acquire one win is not what I would consider infinitely easier than cash games.
I wonder how many cash players look down on tourneys/players because they just can't compete in tourneys. Of course that could apply to tourney players too, but not this one.
Would agree that the transition from tournament to cash is much more difficult.
BUT, very good players find ways to win minimizing coin flips, playing better hands on a consistent basis. Winning 1000's of hands against many different player styles in constantly changing situations to acquire one win is not what I would consider infinitely easier than cash games.
I wonder how many cash players look down on tourneys/players because they just can't compete in tourneys. Of course that could apply to tourney players too, but not this one.
KerouacsDog
Legend
good reply Tonawanda, I agree totally with you.
There is more luck involved in tourneys than cash Monoxide, but to call them luckfests is a bit much, you still need a lot of skill to reach the final table/top 3 payouts.
There is more luck involved in tourneys than cash Monoxide, but to call them luckfests is a bit much, you still need a lot of skill to reach the final table/top 3 payouts.
salim271
Legend
The only bit of skill comes from trying to steal from other players nearing the bubble... and its still damn hard cuz 99 percent of the field are donkeys.
dj11
Legend
- Awards
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I'm a tourney guy, realized it early. But also realize the need for a good ring game
I should probably change my avatar...
room to grow.JPG
I should probably change my avatar...
room to grow.JPG
Attachments
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Legend
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Arguments can be made for both. Most players aren't good at both.
belerophon
Rock Star
The transition that I've seen in books and such is to go from cash to tournaments. Personally, I'm inclined to agree with most here that tournament is easier to learn as I do better on those than I do in NL cash.
However, This could very likely be because their are so many more new and inexperienced players in the field for me to pick on, unlike at a cash table where more experienced players seem to spend their time.
However, This could very likely be because their are so many more new and inexperienced players in the field for me to pick on, unlike at a cash table where more experienced players seem to spend their time.
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
I don't know there are tons and tons of fish at the cash tables all the time and they it's a lot easier to pick on them in ring that in tourney because you have an endless amount of chips given your bankroll, whereas if they suckout on you once in a tourney, you could be gone.
belerophon
Rock Star
That's a good point. I'm just shooting my thoughts from the hip really and far from expert opinion. I do remember reading Tom McEvoy in a book about satellites. He wrote how lots of pros win a ticket to the M.E. but don't worry too much about winning it. According to him there's a lot more action picking on the tourists in cash games when the wsop is in town.
Does that mean cash games are easier? I've no idea. I do know at my level (micro if not lower) I feel much less pressure in an mtt than in a ring game and that affects my performance.
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
Cash games definitely aren't easier, but it is easier to exploit bad players over time in a cash game. Also, in a cash game, you can start to show profit from hand #1 whereas you could play for 4 days in the ME and still be out on the bubble with nothing. The reason you probably feel less pressure in a mtt than ring is because once your tournament has started, you are no longer losing any more money than you have already put in, where in a cash game, you could always buyin again and lose multiple stacks if you are having a bad night or don't play cash games well.
salim271
Legend
+1, thats a major problem in tournaments, there is almost no way to exploit bad players (unless there are a lot of them, i.e freerolls/low buyin tourneys), against LAG players you have to wait for a hand, but while you're waiting, they're spewing chips all over the place, its more likely that someone will knock them out before you have a chance to get to them. In cash games they would rebuy, but once they're out of the tournament, they're out.
Also theres almost no point in setting up an image for yourself especially in low buyin tournaments. Not only do most people not notice your image, before you can effectively use it you get moved to another table.
