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buddyanton

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Nov 22, 2007
Total posts
41
played pretty solid over the last couple sessions. today seemed like a bit of dodge bullet mode.

have a look at a typical hand

pokerstars Game #13512759635: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2007/11/27 - 22:29:39 (ET)
Table 'Pandora' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: xxxEllaxxx ($0.77 in chips)
Seat 2: Gomphus ($2.64 in chips)
Seat 3: Mach6 ($2.87 in chips)
Seat 4: Cape_73 ($2.74 in chips)
Seat 5: ToeKnee81 ($0.75 in chips)
Seat 7: Cardini 23 ($5.61 in chips)
Seat 8: Master SOB ($3.27 in chips)
Seat 9: buddyanton ($2.86 in chips)
Gomphus: posts small blind $0.01
KaiWalk leaves the table
Mach6: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to buddyanton [Ks Ad]
Cape_73: folds
ToeKnee81: folds
Cardini 23: folds
Master SOB: calls $0.02
buddyanton: raises $0.02 to $0.04
xxxEllaxxx: folds
Gomphus: folds
Mach6: calls $0.02
Master SOB: calls $0.02
*** FLOP *** [Th Qh Js]
Mach6: bets $0.04
Master SOB: calls $0.04
buddyanton: raises $0.16 to $0.20
Mach6: raises $0.16 to $0.36
Master SOB: folds
buddyanton: calls $0.16
*** TURN *** [Th Qh Js] [Jd]
Mach6: bets $2.47 and is all-in
buddyanton said, "hit your house"
buddyanton said, "folding AK"
buddyanton: folds
Mach6 collected $0.89 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.89 | Rake $0
Board [Th Qh Js Jd]
Seat 1: xxxEllaxxx (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Gomphus (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Mach6 (big blind) collected ($0.89)
Seat 4: Cape_73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ToeKnee81 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Cardini 23 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Master SOB folded on the Flop
Seat 9: buddyanton folded on the Turn
 
Semicolonkid

Semicolonkid

Rock Star
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Total posts
109
So you don't even know what he had? How could you so easily assume he had a full house the moment the board paired? He could have Ace jack, or nothing, or anything, but the point is, this is small cents we're talking about here, and you have a monster hand...why fold so easily?
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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Aug 27, 2007
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2,417
So you don't even know what he had? How could you so easily assume he had a full house the moment the board paired? He could have Ace jack, or nothing, or anything, but the point is, this is small cents we're talking about here, and you have a monster hand...why fold so easily?

^^^^
this.
 
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buddyanton

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Nov 22, 2007
Total posts
41
dude, not interested in the amount of chips, put the story together, sure a small raise, then he calls, bets into me, i raise, he calls, what is he going to call with. so you put him on AJ. k, but he didnt raise, maybe he has tens, or JT quite possible from where is was and how he was calling. Maybe i played it wrong, maybe i let a monster go. Maybe the question is play solid over playing way loose and putting your chips in when you are drawing dead. anyone else see it that way?
 
Semicolonkid

Semicolonkid

Rock Star
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Aug 26, 2007
Total posts
109
I didn't really mean to offend your play, just to question it. The way I'm looking at it is, take the chance that he DOESN'T have you beat and call. I'm a rather tight player, but also AGGRESSIVE with strong hands. Don't fold just because a guy goes all in and you think he has you near-best hand beat with the best hand(I know there are several ways to have a full house in this situation, I'm just talking about hand rankings).

No hard feelings;)
 
K_Kahne_Fan

K_Kahne_Fan

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Oct 2, 2007
Total posts
1,197
Don't forget, he could've had quads as well. Hit the set on the flop, called your (possible [to him]) str8, then caught a quad on the turn. That low of stakes he very likely would've over played a made hand rather than slow play. I still would've called though. (no offense)
 
Chris_TC

Chris_TC

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Total posts
925
It's not unlikely he had a full house. Bad players love to push all-in the moment they hit a monster.

But bad players love to push all-in in general. He could have easily had something like AJ, AQ, KJ, KQ, QT, Ah9h, AK, any two hearts, a random bluff, Kings, Aces.
I've seen people make this move with all of the above hands.

There are extremely rare situations where folding the nut straight may be a good move. This situation certainly wasn't one of them.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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Sep 14, 2007
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7,832
wait, you're playing 1/2c blinds, and you're confident enough in a read to lay down the nut straight because you KNOW they have a full boat? This could easily be A-Q or maybe they had J-rag and hit trips.

Secondly, what I've noticed about all-in bets that go way over the top. Usually they have a hand that's likely to be ahead right now but is prone to being beaten. Examples include A9 on a 9-high board. I never understood it, but I read an article the other day that explained it pretty well. Most people learn poker, or are at least introduced to it, from TV. What do you see happen all the time? All-ins. Now, what move requires the least thought? If you're in a situation where you likely have the best of it now, but would have to make a tough decision on the turn (over card comes), the solution is just go all-in, then the pressure's on your opponent and you don't have to think anymore. It can be an effective tactic if you know you're playing a superior opponent, to leave more of the game to chance, but no decently good player should ever do that online at this kind of limit.
All-ins like this (way over the top, not any all-in) are usually less skilled players who don't actually like to think or make decisions. They also are usually not sitting on a hand that is close to the nuts. This was a horrible fold IMO, if he has a full boat, pay him off, but you cannot discount bluffs (it's a scary board), trips, 2-pair that just got counterfitted (people LOVE to go all-in after they've missed, seen pocket pairs do this a lot when an over card comes. Makes no sense, but they get scared, panic, and don't want to have to make decisions), a Q, or even the low-end straight. There are a ton of hands that do this at the 1/2c level, and not very many of them have you beat.
 
K_Kahne_Fan

K_Kahne_Fan

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...(people LOVE to go all-in after they've missed, seen pocket pairs do this a lot when an over card comes. Makes no sense, but they get scared, panic, and don't want to have to make decisions)...

I've done this before if I've had a bad day, on lower tables especially. I've had QQ in the poket, raised big PF, had a flop of AK3, got pissed (from still being tilted) and shoved only to discover they called my PF with A7os (because the A is perty'). Very donkish, I know. Part of my tilt I have to work on though.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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I've done this before if I've had a bad day, on lower tables especially. I've had QQ in the poket, raised big PF, had a flop of AK3, got pissed (from still being tilted) and shoved only to discover they called my PF with A7os (because the A is perty'). Very donkish, I know. Part of my tilt I have to work on though.

Yes, but the kinds I love is say someone has QQ, flop comes 37J rainbow, they'll either check or bet very small, turn comes A and they'll go all-in. The move makes absolutely no sense, why put all your money in when the scare card comes? Or people will do the same with 2 of one suit, but when the 3rd comes (they don't have the flush) they'll bet it hard or go all-in. It should be the opposite. You want to price out draws, not put your money in after they might have hit.
 
jaketrevvor

jaketrevvor

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Oct 25, 2007
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Hey Buddy! Good to see you posting already :D

Let's go through this hand bit by bit..

Dealt to buddyanton [Ks Ad]
Cape_73: folds
ToeKnee81: folds
Cardini 23: folds
Master SOB: calls $0.02
buddyanton: raises $0.02 to $0.04
This raise is too small, although AK is very strong PF remember, it is only a drawing hand and with the min. raise you are pricing in the weaker hands that Mach and SOB is holding, giving them 4.5 to 1 and 5.5 to 1 respectively on a call, which with those odds they will often with any two cards preflop. I say raise to $0.08-$0.10 to make them pay while you still have such a strong hand.
xxxEllaxxx: folds
Gomphus: folds
Mach6: calls $0.02
Master SOB: calls $0.02


*** FLOP *** [Th Qh Js]
Mach6: bets $0.04
Master SOB: calls $0.04
buddyanton: raises $0.16 to $0.20
Mach6: raises $0.16 to $0.36
Master SOB: folds
buddyanton: calls $0.16
You have to rereraise here to protect your hand while you still have the best of it. He could easily have two pair or be aggressively playing a flush draw coupled with a straight draw perhaps (it's less likely he has flopped a set as he would have probs reraised PF with a high pp).

*** TURN *** [Th Qh Js] J♦
Mach6: bets $2.47 and is all-in
Frankly ridiculous overbet and definately did play it like someone at these stakes would play two pair on the flop so we must assume we let him get there and turn his hand :(. There are just not enough hands you can beat here to call apart from a massively overplayed Jx (where x is not a Q or T) or 98, which again would have been ridiculously overplayed. So pretty much you're hoping for him to have AK - meaning you're HOPING for a split which is a ridiculous place to put all our money in. Good fold!

Anyway keep posting hands and ideas - I hoped this helped!

jt :cool:
 
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