I've played poker for as long as I can remember.

From the home gatherings in my early teens to sneaking inside the local casino before I was 18. From the early days of virtual poker rooms to the mind-blowing reality that online poker has become.

All along, the tantalizing dream of earning our living by virtue of our superior poker skills kept us moving forward. We grew up believing we had a serious shot at building a decent bankroll, and someday taking the big leap to the world stage.

Like all hard truths in life, this one hit hard. Santa Claus doesn't exist, no one is THAT great in bed and you're probably not making it to the WSOP this year.

Or ever.

Still. We keep grinding. And, even though I'm sure that some players are still awaiting that blinding strike of luck that will catapult them out of oblivion, most of us have found a comfortable space in our daily tables.

So, what is it that keeps us glued to our seats for days on end? Is it the thrill of peeking at pocket rockets? Is it the satisfaction of winning a huge pot? The relief of recovering your foothold after a series of bad beats?

Sting once wrote that we "deal the cards to find the answer, the sacred geometry of chance" and although some of you might disagree with the concept, he got one idea right.

It's not about the money.

It is true for a lot of players including my self, but do not underestimate how many poker wishful there are who dream of making it money wise in poker.

I actually think they are in the majority.

Originally Posted by Branimir84

It is true for a lot of players including my self, but do not underestimate how many poker wishful there are who dream of making it money wise in poker.

I actually think they are in the majority.

I believe we all started with that idea branded inside our brains. And I still find players who are younger than me (most players are younger than me TBH) with that kind of drive. In my case, I enjoy the feeling of pushing my brain to the task of building the best possible mathematical model and testing it at the tables. I'm really into the "study, formulate strategy, test strategy, get results, improve" cycle. I'm assuming most of those who'll agree with me are no rookies either. What is it that keeps you coming back?

Hello Marcos, welcome to Cardschat! Those are the mysteries of life. Perhaps it is the hidden law of an interconnected Universe that makes it work even if the fit is not perfect.

I just try to enjoy every hand i play

Originally Posted by tuku222

pienso que el factor economico en el poker le pone un condimento especial, quien no quiere vivir del deporte que le apasiona, pero tambien me gusta mucho jugar con amigos y flia. el poker es una forma de vida , el dinero es relativo.

I believe It's hard to find games with the massive reach of poker that haven't turned into money-oriented businesses. Still, we'd still play football and make music even if we were sure we'd never make a dime doing it. I believe poker is in the same category. Although money is a central element of its existence, it has always transcended that. The desire to cash in is not the #1 reason that keeps us here.

What can I say: I learned the principles of playing poker inside the casino by virtue of my hesitation from time to time to play roulette, and the thing I learned was playing for profit because I realized that it was better for me to play against the person and not a programmed machine. But with the passage of days, I started to adore poker with its fun, and it was a major reason for me to quit playing roulette, actually playing poker is not related to money and it is difficult to reach this point. .

i play microstakes ($0-$1) mtts because i enjoy the thrill of tournaments, but i also play because i enjoy making money.

Yeah to me it definitely more of a hobby and something to pass the time. Having the CardsChat freerolls available is a huge bonus and allows me to play some real money micro tournaments as well as occasionally cashing out for $100 or so. Bit of fun and bit of money..not many other things allow both. Have fun!

It's all about the fun.

poker is addiction

For me it is certainly NOT about the money. I just play online poker for the fun of it and to pass the time. I have never won much more than $20 in a tournament. I just love the challenge of trying to beat the other players.

For me online poker is mostly about the money, live poker is about the fun, specially when you are playing with friends.

Originally Posted by Mohamed48

What can I say: I learned the principles of playing poker inside the casino by virtue of my hesitation from time to time to play roulette, and the thing I learned was playing for profit because I realized that it was better for me to play against the person and not a programmed machine. But with the passage of days, I started to adore poker with its fun, and it was a major reason for me to quit playing roulette, actually playing poker is not related to money and it is difficult to reach this point. .

I quit all casino games (roulette, BJ, craps) shortly after I turned 20. I have no problem tagging along a group of friends and trying our luck at any of those but I no longer play them systematically. Poker for me is different, though. I don't claim to be an enlightened soul who has found the hidden Zen balance in the game, but it's nice to hear from people who understand that, while there will always be money involved, we play for something else.

Originally Posted by marcoslopezbl

I believe we all started with that idea branded inside our brains. And I still find players who are younger than me (most players are younger than me TBH) with that kind of drive. In my case, I enjoy the feeling of pushing my brain to the task of building the best possible mathematical model and testing it at the tables. I'm really into the "study, formulate strategy, test strategy, get results, improve" cycle. I'm assuming most of those who'll agree with me are no rookies either. What is it that keeps you coming back?

I lived the life of a professional poker player back in the 80's. We were called the 0ne-percenters. I'd have to say it was a combination of the love for the game and the money, but I don't care to ever return to that lifestyle.

For me now, as you say macroslopezbl, I'm in agreement with the

"study, formulate strategy, test strategy, get results, improve" cycle. And I'm writing a book about winning micro SnGs. It's not that I think I'm such a great player, but I tend to write about anything that interests me and I haven't seen any books written specifically for the micro games, and these are the games most players begin playing in. And yes, though it'd be rare any of them will rise to stardom stratus, some will rise to make a decent living at it if they so desire.


The money? No, I don't even need the money anymore.


May the poker gods favor your journey.

Originally Posted by Hsac

I lived the life of a professional poker player back in the 80's. We were called the 0ne-percenters. I'd have to say it was a combination of the love for the game and the money, but I don't care to ever return to that lifestyle.

For me now, as you say macroslopezbl, I'm in agreement with the

"study, formulate strategy, test strategy, get results, improve" cycle. And I'm writing a book about winning micro SnGs. It's not that I think I'm such a great player, but I tend to write about anything that interests me and I haven't seen any books written specifically for the micro games, and these are the games most players begin playing in. And yes, though it'd be rare any of them will rise to stardom stratus, some will rise to make a decent living at it if they so desire.


The money? No, I don't even need the money anymore.


May the poker gods favor your journey.

Thanks for taking the time to read my banter, Hsac. I'm a poker atheist, maybe I've spurned the gods and that's why I win so rarely.

I love the fact that you're writing a book about Poker while at the same time admitting it stopped being about the money long ago. I'd love to know what aspects of that lifestyle are those which you "don't care to ever return to." I believe I remember reading in one of Brunson's books that casino touring in the '80s was very physically and mentally taxing.

playing poker is pure dopamine. each hand that is won by playing is a jet of dopamine in the veins that brings the false feeling of having won something valuable, but it is mostly false because the only reward (in the case of sng) is when it arrives at ITM. it is the same to play games of chance like those machines in the casinos, they are programmed to almost always hit the 3 numbers and miss the last, but this from the same "almost won and got rich" sentence that forces the person to play again and again again, until they lose everything.


it may really not be about money, but surely it is about filling a void within ourselves, about taking stress out of a tiring day at work. The same neurotransmitters are activated in poker, sugar, when they smoke cigarettes, when they drink a drink or use a drug or when we play online games, if we don't take care without realizing we take hostages from these mundane things.

Originally Posted by bempassado

playing poker is pure dopamine. each hand that is won by playing is a jet of dopamine in the veins that brings the false feeling of having won something valuable, but it is mostly false because the only reward (in the case of sng) is when it arrives at ITM. it is the same to play games of chance like those machines in the casinos, they are programmed to almost always hit the 3 numbers and miss the last, but this from the same "almost won and got rich" sentence that forces the person to play again and again again, until they lose everything.


it may really not be about money, but surely it is about filling a void within ourselves, about taking stress out of a tiring day at work. The same neurotransmitters are activated in poker, sugar, when they smoke cigarettes, when they drink a drink or use a drug or when we play online games, if we don't take care without realizing we take hostages from these mundane things.

Hey Bempassado! Thanks for taking the time to read my post. One of my best friends and godfather to my son is a neuroscientist and has books on the search for dopamine "hits." He even wrote full chapters about the non-existence of love which were markedly unpopular with his wife. I won't disagree with you, but would it be strange to say that poker, in my case is more a source of relaxation than one of excitement?

Yes, I agree that. This type of thing, the important is about have fun and do it your best as playing, will have a great chance to bring good things and not always about money, but general learning

Originally Posted by marcoslopezbl

Thanks for taking the time to read my banter, Hsac. I'm a poker atheist, maybe I've spurned the gods and that's why I win so rarely.

I love the fact that you're writing a book about Poker while at the same time admitting it stopped being about the money long ago. I'd love to know what aspects of that lifestyle are those which you "don't care to ever return to." I believe I remember reading in one of Brunson's books that casino touring in the '80s was very physically and mentally taxing.

Hi again, thanks for asking.

I had a wonderful wife and four sons. Problem is I was always on the go, always hustling. I hate to admit I missed a good portion of my sons growing up, but I had to keep hustling to keep us in the lifestyle we were accustomed. I even got a pilot's license and bought a Cherokee to fly back and forth between Vegas and Reno and Southern California. It wasn't just the casino touring, but I was mostly looking for high stakes private games. Brunson was right, it was a hard life.

I think I mentioned this somewhere on the forum before, but then disaster struck in the early nineties. My 15 year-old son committed suicide. After that my heart wasn't in it anymore. My wife and I separated. I handed over my bankroll so they could continue to live in comfort, and then I lived in the streets for about a year until we reconciled. After we got back together I had no desire to spend that much time away from my family, or ever have to hustle like that again.

It really is a big mystery. But I think first because it is a game you should like it and how to play football or basketball while you are able to play you play.

Second, any game that involves money up to even or odd with a friend makes the game more engaging and keeps you playing longer until you have some advantage, even if illusory.

Third, the dynamics of the game behind the cards make us have the distinct impression that it is a game of minds and you ask yourself, why can't I play better than the villain? and that challenge goes up to you to prove it, over and over again.

Fourth and I think last, instead of you betting on lotteries because it's not a game that involves luck, but that involves some technique? the odds are much better.

About surviving the game, I believe it is possible but as long as you play higher levels where the moves are sharper than your professional level

only in money. the game itself is also attractive.

The game of poker has always caused a desire to win and get rich. A good dream that still remains just a dream

Originally Posted by Hsac

Hi again, thanks for asking.

I had a wonderful wife and four sons. Problem is I was always on the go, always hustling. I hate to admit I missed a good portion of my sons growing up, but I had to keep hustling to keep us in the lifestyle we were accustomed. I even got a pilot's license and bought a Cherokee to fly back and forth between Vegas and Reno and Southern California. It wasn't just the casino touring, but I was mostly looking for high stakes private games. Brunson was right, it was a hard life.

I think I mentioned this somewhere on the forum before, but then disaster struck in the early nineties. My 15 year-old son committed suicide. After that my heart wasn't in it anymore. My wife and I separated. I handed over my bankroll so they could continue to live in comfort, and then I lived in the streets for about a year until we reconciled. After we got back together I had no desire to spend that much time away from my family, or ever have to hustle like that again.

I'm really sorry about that, Hsac. I'm new to the forums and never read about your son. Although I probably would never read a technical manual on micro SNG, I would definitely be interested in the memoirs of an 80s hustler. Hope you are thinking of including some of that in the book you're writing.

The 'It's not about the money" blurb applies to gambling as a whole. Even when you win, you know that you're going to put it all back. As far as poker, I think that the appeal is the excitement of anticipation and the unknown, just waiting for something to happen.

Originally Posted by marcoslopezbl

I'm really sorry about that, Hsac. I'm new to the forums and never read about your son. Although I probably would never read a technical manual on micro SNG, I would definitely be interested in the memoirs of an 80s hustler. Hope you are thinking of including some of that in the book you're writing.

Thank you for your sympathy, marcoslopezbl. It happened a long tome ago and I've fully gotten over it. Seems like it was another life now.

More sorry to hear you wouldn't be interested in reading my book. It's minimally a technical manual, and contains a lot of humor. Not your usual book about how to play poker. Those who have read my early chapters think it's more entertaining than technical, probably partly because I use a lot of cuss words when describing the negative aspects of the game. I've posted a few excerpts from the book on the forum, including an updated review of Bet Online. You might check them out when you have a chance.

Take care,

Cliff

You are right, Marcos, it is not a matter of money, but of its quantity ...

Originally Posted by Hsac

Thank you for your sympathy, marcoslopezbl. It happened a long tome ago and I've fully gotten over it. Seems like it was another life now.

More sorry to hear you wouldn't be interested in reading my book. It's minimally a technical manual, and contains a lot of humor. Not your usual book about how to play poker. Those who have read my early chapters think it's more entertaining than technical, probably partly because I use a lot of cuss words when describing the negative aspects of the game. I've posted a few excerpts from the book on the forum, including an updated review of Bet Online. You might check them out when you have a chance.

Take care,

Cliff

I'll definitely check it out. I didn't mean I wouldn't be interested in reading your book. Just that the anecdotal aspects of hustler life in the 80s appeal more to me than pages and pages of charts. I'll gladly give it a read. Could you post a link for us, please?

Poker is a great strategy game, one of the best I know. And without a doubt that if we didn't play it for money, it loses a lot of sense. But the purpose is to play in the best way and this will undoubtedly bring us great results.

Yes it is, the money is the trophy in poker when you are first starting out. Once you are financially set and money is no longer an issue then it just about the win. Not sure as I am not financially set yet.

Hello.
I agree. Indeed, it is not about money. The game brings me pleasure and for me it is the most important thing. Personally, it is important for me to make the right, informed decisions, and thus gain an advantage over my opponents.

I started playing poker without thinking about real profits at all. At home with friends on matches played. It was only later that I learned that you can make a little money from it. But to each his own, as they say.

For me, it IS about the money. If there were no money, I wouldnt play.
The more properly you play, the less pleasant the game becomes. Sad but necessary truth.

Hi There

If it´s not for money then for what?
Pleasure to loose to some fish?
Pleasure to loose with an AA hand?
Pleasure to loose a all in hand?
Really?
Come on
Rgds

The money is great if you win it . However, there is nothing like making it to a final table in a big tournament. I will allways remember A big stack tourney win in Vegas. The 63k for first was great but what I really wanted was the trophy and the picture.

And yet it is money, but it is not as important as many people think. Money will give us the opportunity to participate in live tournaments and, possibly, to prove ourselves. And money is still one of the indicators of our skill: the more you win, the higher your skill.
Maybe I'm not one of those who play for the sake of interest in the game, for vanity, or for other reasons. Mostly I play to win money. Only I still have not defeated them.))

I agree I've been playing for a long time and it's not truly about the money the money with icing on top of the cake I like to play I love the sport I love the game the strategic aspect of it. I think most of all I love the people when I play in our local home game.b I don't care if I win. and I don't care if I lose. really I just want to hang out with the boys and have a good time. again. like I said before the money is just a bonus. icing on the cake. good luck on the tables everyone and as always good luck

Originally Posted by marcoslopezbl

I've played poker for as long as I can remember.

From the home gatherings in my early teens to sneaking inside the local casino before I was 18. From the early days of virtual poker rooms to the mind-blowing reality that online poker has become.

All along, the tantalizing dream of earning our living by virtue of our superior poker skills kept us moving forward. We grew up believing we had a serious shot at building a decent bankroll, and someday taking the big leap to the world stage.

Like all hard truths in life, this one hit hard. Santa Claus doesn't exist, no one is THAT great in bed and you're probably not making it to the WSOP this year.

Or ever.

Still. We keep grinding. And, even though I'm sure that some players are still awaiting that blinding strike of luck that will catapult them out of oblivion, most of us have found a comfortable space in our daily tables.

So, what is it that keeps us glued to our seats for days on end? Is it the thrill of peeking at pocket rockets? Is it the satisfaction of winning a huge pot? The relief of recovering your foothold after a series of bad beats?

Sting once wrote that we "deal the cards to find the answer, the sacred geometry of chance" and although some of you might disagree with the concept, he got one idea right.

It's not about the money.

I fully agree with your text, including congratulations on the elaboration. Poker is a source of income, but stop playing is not an option precisely because of the love that the player has acquired for the game.

Originally Posted by molokheia

Hi There

If it´s not for money then for what?
Pleasure to loose to some fish?
Pleasure to loose with an AA hand?
Pleasure to loose a all in hand?
Really?
Come on
Rgds

Hi Molokheia, thanks for taking the time to read my post. I believe most of the examples you pose have to do with the fickle nature of short term results. Of course there are going to be bad beats here and there, we'll lose with the odds in our favor against opponents we deem inferior in skill, and maybe in your case there is something seductive about the profits that can be made through good, solid poker. I'll still maintain that, while the prospect of winning and losing money is an enticing element of the sport, there comes a point where it loses its role as the cornerstone of the experience.

Do we play for money? Yes, sure.
Is it THE reason why we play? No way.

Originally Posted by Zvezda kz

And yet it is money, but it is not as important as many people think. Money will give us the opportunity to participate in live tournaments and, possibly, to prove ourselves. And money is still one of the indicators of our skill: the more you win, the higher your skill.
Maybe I'm not one of those who play for the sake of interest in the game, for vanity, or for other reasons. Mostly I play to win money. Only I still have not defeated them.))

Hi Zvezda! Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on this post. I'm glad to find people that agree with my point of view, I honestly didn't think we were so many

There's a scene in the movie Moneyball in which Peter Brand (Jonah Hill) tells Billy Beane (Brad Pitt) that really resonated with me when I first heard it. I believe it applies to the point you're trying to make.

02:00:38 You're not doing it for the money.
02:00:40 No? No
02:00:45 You're doing it for what the money says.
02:00:49 And it says what it says to any player that makes big money.
02:00:53 That they're worth it.

I can fully get behind your concept of money earned as an indicator of skill and success. I believe that is true for most walks of life, including poker. Thanks again for your insight and see you at the tables

Originally Posted by marcoslopezbl

Hi Zvezda! Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on this post. I'm glad to find people that agree with my point of view, I honestly didn't think we were so many

There's a scene in the movie Moneyball in which Peter Brand (Jonah Hill) tells Billy Beane (Brad Pitt) that really resonated with me when I first heard it. I believe it applies to the point you're trying to make.

In this community you will find like-minded people from all points of view. There are very adequate participants and many qualified players. Here you can find the answer to many questions of poker and much more. You just have to ask them.
I wish you good luck in conquering the tops of poker.

I play for the feeling I get when I shove all my chips in and that nervousness, short of breath, anxious feeling. It is nice to follow that up with the thrill of winning a big pot but you can't win them all.

For me personally, playing poker is only making money! I am glad to have more than 63 places than 1 if the win for 63 places is greater!

The game is meant to be about Money.

Originally Posted by marcoslopezbl

It's not about the money.

The funny and ironic thing is that only the players who understand that concept are capable of actually beating the game and turning a profit from playing poker

You can see this two way, by this I mean what you're referring to as " it's not about the money"
The first is saying don't think about making money, play the game, have fun
The other & most pertinent angle is that you're right but not in the way you mean, but in the way that any profession, achievement or project will be successful only if you focus on the craft & the processes rather than the lump sum you'll receive at the end. Poker is not a get rich quick scheme, & even if you happen to hit it big one day, you need to master the marathon approach to have a remote chance of keeping your wins. That's why Poker takes you on such an interesting spiritual journey, it's fueled so much by Ego but 1% of Ego could be your downfall on the felt & it's all about making money in the end, but that's a by product of the accumulation of +EV decisions you make day in & day out as well as the BRM decisions you make daily or at least that's how I took your o.p

Originally Posted by zinzir

The funny and ironic thing is that only the players who understand that concept are capable of actually beating the game and turning a profit from playing poker

Hi Zinzir! As I said before, I don't claim to be an enlightened soul by any means. I believe there are plenty of players who really do this for the money and are extremely efficient at what they do. Hats off to them. I know the odds of me becoming one of them are extremely long but I still find poker to be one of the most entertaining, enduring and fascinating hobbies/sports one can take up. Thanks for your comment!

Originally Posted by marcoslopezbl

Hey Bempassado! Thanks for taking the time to read my post. One of my best friends and godfather to my son is a neuroscientist and has books on the search for dopamine "hits." He even wrote full chapters about the non-existence of love which were markedly unpopular with his wife. I won't disagree with you, but would it be strange to say that poker, in my case is more a source of relaxation than one of excitement?

Hi bro, how are you doing.
It depends if are playing for hobby or if you are playing to pay your bills. If you are the choice number one, then no problem poker is fun 100% of the time. But if you play to put some food on your table the emotional changes.

Originally Posted by marcoslopezbl

I've played poker for as long as I can remember.

From the home gatherings in my early teens to sneaking inside the local casino before I was 18. From the early days of virtual poker rooms to the mind-blowing reality that online poker has become.

All along, the tantalizing dream of earning our living by virtue of our superior poker skills kept us moving forward. We grew up believing we had a serious shot at building a decent bankroll, and someday taking the big leap to the world stage.

Like all hard truths in life, this one hit hard. Santa Claus doesn't exist, no one is THAT great in bed and you're probably not making it to the WSOP this year.

Or ever.

Still. We keep grinding. And, even though I'm sure that some players are still awaiting that blinding strike of luck that will catapult them out of oblivion, most of us have found a comfortable space in our daily tables.

So, what is it that keeps us glued to our seats for days on end? Is it the thrill of peeking at pocket rockets? Is it the satisfaction of winning a huge pot? The relief of recovering your foothold after a series of bad beats?

Sting once wrote that we "deal the cards to find the answer, the sacred geometry of chance" and although some of you might disagree with the concept, he got one idea right.

It's not about the money.

I totally disagree it is all about the money. people play the wsop main event for the $10 million first place prize not the $40,000 bracelet. The only people who can truly say they dont spend all this time playing poker for the money is the millionaires and billionaires where the money doesnt matter to them and they want to win first place to be the best. Every other poker player is playing for the money I think most people who work do so for the money. It just happens with most poker players they are doing what they love in playing poker so if they make millions at it they are a successful poker player. Just like the difference between a lawyer who is a civil prosecutor or a corporate lawyer they both love the law one makes $60,000/year and the other makes $550,000/year respectively and they both keep working until they feel like retiring. Poker is a heavily money driven sport where the more you make the generally better you are thought to be at the sport.

Originally Posted by marcoslopezbl

Hi Zvezda! Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on this post. I'm glad to find people that agree with my point of view, I honestly didn't think we were so many

There's a scene in the movie Moneyball in which Peter Brand (Jonah Hill) tells Billy Beane (Brad Pitt) that really resonated with me when I first heard it. I believe it applies to the point you're trying to make.

I can fully get behind your concept of money earned as an indicator of skill and success. I believe that is true for most walks of life, including poker. Thanks again for your insight and see you at the tables

If you play poker for a living you are playing to eat and for somewhere to sleep if you are good enough then the place where you eat and sleep gets better and better as time goes on but you are still playing to eat and to have somewhere to sleep. So it is a little different than just proving your worth at something you do in life. Whether you are a recreational player who wins the wsop or a professional low stakes grinder. Professional Poker is about the money to have somewhere to eat and sleep along with all the other things.