I...WAS...A...FOOL.....!

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posiview

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Total posts
46
Hi, I’ve been playing poker for around 3 months now, mainly on-line, and enjoy it immensely!

Initially, I played ring games but soon moved to sit and gos ($1.00/$3.00). My playing style is tight/aggressive, but I'm not averse to quickly changing style during a tourney..

I read several books, checked out several websites and read numerous articles and bought Pokertracker.

Over a 2 month period, after checking my stats in Pokertracker, I noticed that I was on a steady, 45 degree, losing streak…

I had a good review of my stats in PT and noticed that around 95% of my losses were in the following arrears: big and small blind (over protecting); with pairs and high cards (hoping for trips/TPTK)

I took the necessary action to sort out my newbie errors and over a 7 day period went from a steady decline to a steady, but consist, levelling off of my bankroll.

Then….I stated to consistently, well almost consistently, getting money finishes…I felt FANTASTIC! I went from $4.75 to $56.00!

AND….THEN….IT….HAPPENED…:confused: :confused:

I had 2 games in $3.00 and lost both. I came away and went back at midnight when family had gone to bed.

I lost, lost and lost….:confused:

Reasons: I was tired, I was over-protecting my blinds (and loosing); and most significantly, to recovery my losses faster, I moved to the $6.00 SnG tables.

Yes, I lost and lost and lost…3 games in a row.

I felt really…really…stupid.

The only reason I stopped was that I, literally, fell asleep during a game!!

The morning after I was like a grumpy old man….I almost cancelled my membership to pokerstars and deleted all my software, hand histories…

Now, I still fell like a fool but realise that my losses/bad game-play are repairable.

I’m taking a week off and will read and regroup and start again.

My playing style won’t really change, it suits my personality. I will not play to recover losses, when I’m tired and pathologically tight!

Also, one thing I do notice, when I change my style, is that I give way too much respect for fellow players abilities. If there is a hand that can beat me, after someone raises me on the river, I'll assume thay have it and fold. When I started to call/reraise they either fold or have nothing.

I hope, and believe, I can recover and welcome any comments and would flag this post to any new starters so they don’t make the same mistakes. :)

Thanks...
 
Effexor

Effexor

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 13, 2006
Total posts
1,773
First off, welcome to CC !

Dealing with Tilt is a big lesson that most of us have to come to grips with eventually. I've had a difficult time with it myself. One big step that you have already taken is being able to step back and look at the PT stats objectively to find holes in your game. The other one is to learn to take a break when you find yourself on tilt.

It's been a process for me, and each time I get ever so slightly better at it but I'm still far from cured.
 
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posiview

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Total posts
46
First off, welcome to CC !

Dealing with Tilt is a big lesson that most of us have to come to grips with eventually. I've had a difficult time with it myself. One big step that you have already taken is being able to step back and look at the PT stats objectively to find holes in your game. The other one is to learn to take a break when you find yourself on tilt.

It's been a process for me, and each time I get ever so slightly better at it but I'm still far from cured.

Thanks for the responce and I'd like to say that this is a great site. Many I've visited seem to degenerate into slagging off posters..and an over use of foul language

Anyway, I was aware of tilt and just really dawned on me that I did, indeed, go on tilt.

Thanks again...
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Total posts
12,422
Hi, and welcome. :)

It seems you have a pretty balanced head on your shoulders. You seem to be making all the right moves for someone getting started in online poker, but, as is all too familiar, common sense goes out of the window as soon as emotions start getting involved.

Maybe you played badly to 'lose' (I guess you mean "not cash in") three SNGs in a row. Then again, maybe you didn't. It's understandable that you perhaps don't fully comprehend exactly how brutal the variance in poker can be seeing as you're just getting started in the poker world. It's easily possible to not cash in upwards of a dozen one table SNGs even playing perfect poker.

"Seeing monsters under the bed" (read "overestimating the quality of an opponents hand") is another familiar problem that often occurs subsequent to a losing run. If you've been taking horrific beats left right and centre, it becomes almost 'natural' to assume that some guy was calling you down with a gutshot has hit what appears to be a blank river when he raises you and you have the near-nuts.

First - distance 'bad results' from 'bad play'. While in the long run they're inextricably linked, in the short run they don't correlate too closely.

Second - read my ramblings on tilt. What you say about you not realising you were tilting until you came 'off tilt' is an incredibly common problem - of course it would be much simpler for us to combat tilt if we were able to identify the times we were 'on tilt' as soon as tilt manifested itself.
 
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jeffred1111

Visionary
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Total posts
792
Welcome to CC and let me introduce you to the variance of poker by making a stupid analogy. In hockey, and in most of pro sports, some teams are clearly better than others: the Red Wings come to mind as a team that is clearly one step above of most of the competition this year. They have great talent and depth everywhere, make the right move, practice and study hard, yet, some nights, they lose to some stupid expansion era team like the Coyotes. And nobody bats an eye: they had a bad day, the puck wasn't rolling on their side, some key shots hit the post and the other team had a lucky goal/penalty that sealed the deal.

Poker is the exact same thing. You have a lot of expansion era players who are just starting out on whose foundation is bad: they don't review their play, they don't think about it or focus on wrong thinds (bluffing, bluffing, bluffing). Yet, as a solid player, we often lose to them while we are clearly better. Why ? Because of variance and external factors (we are sleepy, tilted, etc.). Losing three SNGs is nothing. I've had swings where I didn't win a SNG in more than 12 tries, cashing third a few times, but no more than that. This is why there's money to be made in poker and not in a pure skill game such as Chess: the newbs and the fish win from time to time and they thus keep the illusion that they're good at it (despite losing).

So I suggest you read some books about the underlying nature of poker (and gambling in general). TOP springs to mind, Zen and the art of poker, Poker psychology, etc. Post in the strat section and ask about suggestions and read them during Christmas, you'll come out a better, stronger and more avid player than before.
 
KingNothing4

KingNothing4

Rock Star
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Total posts
382
hello and welcome, i just did this like a month ago, was up til like 6 in the morning, prolly played for like 9 hours straight, was doing good in the beginning, up from $40 to nearly $60, but ya i jus tilted hardcore, was playing micro-limits and was so tired i didnt care, and when i was down to like $20 i went up to a bigger table for all my money, got lucky and doubled up there, but then was like yay up for $40 and jus pissed it all away hoping to double up fast again. but i was so tired i was a wreck, had no sense of playing my game. haha so ya just gotta get the tilt under control, and im thinkin bout throwing in another and trying to stick to my rules i set about my dif games, and maybe sign off when it gets late right away. u jus sound like u had the same exact problem i did so hopefully it all works out for u and just keep a strong mind about wat is going on, and know that u do not need to make all ur money back right away, theres always tomoro and it may be a slow building process. but goodluck hope u solve your problems and win some money!
 
Monoxide

Monoxide

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Total posts
3,657
You must understand that not cashing in sit and gos is perfectly normal. You wont cash in most of them. My worst streak is 19 sit and gos with no cash. Mind you these games range from 9-180 people.

So losing 9 in a row? 12? nothing.

It pays off when you hit hot streaks though, and cash in 2-3 in a row, or perhaps take 1st place a few times, it balances out.
 
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posiview

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Total posts
46
Guys, thanks for some fantastic advice.

"Seeing monsters under the bed" - great analogy!

Dorkus - nice article on tilt. "Take a break", OMG, fundemental and something I don't do! Think I'll frame it and out it above my laptop.

jeffred1111 "This is why there's money to be made in poker and not in a pure skill game such as Chess: the newbs and the fish win from time to time and they thus keep the illusion that they're good at it (despite losing)." Great thought for me to keep in mind ...

KingNothing4 "and know that u do not need to make all ur money back right away, theres always tomoro" - again, I was in the 'I want it back now' frame of mind...

On a postive note I has 4 games last night on SnG £1.75; lost 2 (one bad beat and 1 stoooopid mistake by me), 3rd in 1 and 1st in one; and I logged of when I was getting tired...:)

Thanks again and I'll be back to this site.
 
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jeffred1111

Visionary
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Total posts
792
Cool to know and just so you feel better, Sharscope has my longest not cashing streak at 21 and I'm clearly a winner at these games.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Total posts
12,422
Cool to know and just so you feel better, Sharscope has my longest not cashing streak at 21 and I'm clearly a winner at these games.

...and I thought my 16 in a row was 'impressive'. :p
 
J

jeffred1111

Visionary
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Total posts
792
Yeah, it goes to 9 times not cashing to 21 and I don't even remember it happening... Might have been just when I started back 3 days ago since it's the only real downswing in my graph.
 
S

spankyou

Rising Star
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Total posts
4
dang, I too had a time where the money started to run away from me

I started with a $20 deposits and fought my way up to a $103

then all of a sudden I decided to play stud and omaha, lost $50

I tried to go back to holdem, even worse :(


now i'm still trying to recover, hanging around at $13 now



how much did you lose overall? and yes I was somewhat on tilt
 
Wild Rivers

Wild Rivers

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Total posts
251
There's been some good advice by previous posters, but I'd like to add that NOW is the time for you to incorporate some rules of bankroll management into your game. If you go to the "search" tab here and type in "bankroll management" you'll see a ton of good threads on the subject. If nothing else, you should set some rules for yourself. When I started setting rules on myself for managing my bankroll, I decided to set aside a specific amount of my total bankroll for SNG's and a much smaller amount for LOW STAKES ring games (2/4 or 5/10 cent fixed limit). I started playing $1 sit n go's, and tracked my results with a spreadsheet. When I had won enough in profits to pay for 3 buy-ins at the next level, I'd try one there, and if I lost I'd drop back down to the lower level, etc etc. If at any point I lost three in a row, it was time to quit and either wait until the next day, or, if I really wanted to play some more, I'd take a couple of bucks to a 2/4 or 5/10 cent limit hold em ring game. If I lost that it was definitely time to quit, but on the other hand if I managed to win enough for a one dollar SNG buy in I'd pull out, squirrel my profit away, and try another table. Finally, once you get on a roll and build some bankroll, you can then look at some more sophisticated methods of managing your bankroll and step up to higher limit SNG's and higher stakes limit ring games or, if you like, you can then try no limit hold em with a low to moderate buy-in. Good luck, and, oh, by the way, welcome to CC!!
 
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