Page 6 - This is a discussion on How Much of Poker is Skill & How Much is Luck? within the online poker forums, in the General Poker section; According to you, poker is all about luck or skill?
In any one tournament or cash game session, luck determines most of your outcome. It's not only about sucking out when you get it in bad or the hand holding up when you get it in good, it's also about what cards you get when.
For example, if you get KK when someone else has QQ, then you had good luck. If you get KK when someone else has AA, then you got bad luck. This happened to me twice in the last week where I had a big stack and got KK but ran into another big stack who had AA. Also, when you get lucky or unlucky also plays a big role in how much you win/lose. If you get sucked out on a tiny pot, who cares. But if you lose 200 big blinds cuz the other guy called off his stack with a high pair vs. your set only to runner runner you, then it's gonna take you a while to recover from that in your profit/loss column.
Over time, those with the ability to constantly get it in good and/or have the ability to read opponents and make right decisions SHOULD win. But, good/bad luck can also persist over a long time.
I think 70% is skill and 30% is luck. It is very important to know about poker hands, their odds, know how to read the rivals, have a good game strategy, but if when we do it, we do not have the luck factor, we can end up losing even if we have played the hand of the right way.
If we are talking about someone who plays once in a while just for pleasure and fun, i would say its 60% skills and 40% luck. If the case is about someone who plays professionally/ lives from it and takes the things seriously in a long term, then the ratio is 75% skills 25% luck
I prefer to think about how your own skill reflects in a game, you cannot possibly play your best every single day, It depends on your frame of mind, or your relationship with a partner, even the weather outside can effect your game.
I prefer to play when there is a lot of wind and rain outside, as I don't feel as guilty playing Poker, as I do when the sunshine is beaming down. (I could be doing something better).
I suppose that is another reason Casino's don't have windows, so you don't realise what the weather is like, or what time it is.
Skill comes from study and practice, and it takes time to become skillful, like someone once said "Poker is a game you can learn in 10 minutes, But it takes a lifetime to master" there is no truer words spoken about Poker,
You can read all the books in the World on how to fly a Helicopter, but until you sit in the pilots seat and experience it first hand, you ain't going to fly. It is all about practice, practice, practice, and more practice,
It is that simple.
Skill... hmmm maybe 20 years ago we seen poker where skill was very important in now days all I can see on poker table is luck luck bingo. Don't get me wrong I am not cash player and I don't write about this kind off game but in tournaments sit and go spin and go it is 50 % off luck. And some one tell me in long term fish will bla bla bla and you will win playing skillfull ,,,bullshit I play and watch poker over 10 years and I see over and over again how better hands lose I have easy example I make notes in last my 100 all ins whare was dominated A you know how many times better A X won.....? 21 times and 79 times worst hands won and now start write my about long bla bla terms bingo and luck this is poker now days.
In the short run there is a lot of luck involved, but to win in the long run takes skill.
No one would be in there playing badly if they couldn't get saved by the deck, but keep playing badly and they will lose eventually.
If everyone played a few hundred thousand hands a year they'd realize having the best hand is no guarantee and that everyone wins and loses their fair share of flips and coolers.
Unfortunately the loudest voices are usually those who played a couple hundred hands, became frustrated with losing, and searched for nefarious reasons to explain the horrible injustice (rigged, bots, cheaters).
In online poker, luck is very important, and itís mono skill to enter the ITM in the last places, but in order to really win the tournament and get into the top ten, the importance of luck is in the first place here!
I think skill is the determinant. With skill you will do better in situations where luck will matter. Whether it's extracting more when you're dealt top hands or losing less when your opponent has top hands.
It is all about the probability and the skills tells you how to use it. What probability of the success is at this particular moment if I bet, what if I call, What if I fold? If other player do the action, you need to choose reaction, that gives you more probability to win. So skills are important and you get it by the practice. And the longer the game is the more important skills are. If you thinking about one, current game no long therm results, the luck is important more than for long term strategy.
A lot of it is knowing HOW they scam you. At least on this one site I play at, let's call it "cheat on line." They have it rigged where if you've won two sng's in a row, they give you top pair on the river while it completes villains FH or straight. It's not poker, but it's why it's still illegal in the US. A shame, I think poker fans would want to know if they are any good or not. But yeah, it's skill to figure out how they are going to scam you in real time, imo.
You need both this things to be successful in poker. I believe in online poker luck is very important thing, just because without that people can play bad against you but win your money cause of that.
Right now i think lots of people can play very well, because lots of free information are in the interent and you can find lots of usefull videos. Just watch them and you will play better soon. You just need to spend some time on it.
Hand ranges have gotten so wide, I now put more luck than skill on these players. E.G. I am in a $1/2 NLHE at Foxwoods, I had Qs, I did raise kind of of light , $10 in late position. One Player calls, flop Axx, and of course he takes the hand down by calling the raise with A4o
skill when you already have a good level of studies and put it into practice calculating your hit percentage , thus calculating your chances of winning the hand , calculating what your villain should have on hand , which hands your villain will pay , luck is when you do not do any of that nor know anything , without study and pay hands with anything in any position and turn your game and you hope to win the game for example the guy threebets on top of your bet indicating a high pair and you call with A2 sulted rooting for a flush or set of 2 .
I think it is 85 percent skill and 15 percent lucky. It is hard but you have to know how to throw good hands sometimes vs others that are dominating us, the reading of the rivals
it is basic, if you learn to read your rivals well. you have mastered the game, unfortunately it is something that is very difficult, but with study and dedication I am sure you can go very far. I play nl2 and I can't get out of that level because I do bad readings. And I always crash into better hands To win boxes you have to play a hand vs another more powerful hand, play preflop that is something that has to do with luck. but the post-flop game is already skill.
As far as I know from my short experience and study is that you measure a player ability in the long run.
I think most of us, at least the ones that study, have heard of variance.
Variance can be considered the luck factor in poker. The part that even when you make the best decisions you may loose. These best decisions can be: Having a good range defined by position, understanding villains character's, know how much to bet and when to bet applying the odds EV and so on, considering the villains character's and current street. Know when and how to bluff. If you play online there's tools, table selection. You also have GTO which I have almost no knowledge. Let's not forget about mindset also. And therefore.
Another important aspect of a winning strategy is a sound BRM.
So there's tons skills and tools for you to learn and practice to reduce the luck factor out of the game.
I get frustrated many times cause even though I've been studying and practicing and investing in tools I'm still very far from being a profitable player.
And that's the mindset part which not only takes study but also time and it's also something some will never have and I hope I'm not one of them.
And no, no one goes very far in this game with luck.
Not in the long run.
Definitely more skills, it depends on what you play, for example, in turbo, super turbo games, you must count on luck, too, you will never win anyway, even in deep structure, especially in tournaments, you need luck, good luck to get to FT