How do I make my poker more profitable?

flint

flint

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Ever since I went broke in February, I have been struggling to get my BR up. I think the high point has been 32 dollars and the low point was 7 dollars. Right now I'm sitting with just over twenty bucks.

It seems at 5nl I am winning player, although at the moment I don't know by how much (poker tracker shows 1.49BB/100, but that's after a loosing session and with only 3k hands). With $3 SNGs I think I am a winning player, but have been having a couple of loosing streaks lately and I am down a bit.

I also noticed that even Jesus had problems getting his BR up from this point. Any pointers? It just seems I am wasting my time as my BR just fluctuates around 20 dollars.

How can I make my game more profitable?
 
Gallo

Gallo

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Win! =)

By playing $3 SNG's i dont think you are practicing proper bankroll management. You should be playing the lowest stakes possible
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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Win! =)

By playing $3 SNG's i dont think you are practicing proper bankroll management. You should be playing the lowest stakes possible

Yep!!!

U have $20 so the max u should be playing is $1 SNG`s. If u can`t accept that u will continue to lose :(

U should play as many freerolls as you can. I know they are ball breaking, but if u placed in the $$$ at this moment in time a $1 win will be an increase of 5% of your bankroll - I wish I could guarentee to increase my bankroll by 5% for ever - this is a better return than you can get from a bank savings account!!!
 
flint

flint

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Win! =)

By playing $3 SNG's i dont think you are practicing proper bankroll management. You should be playing the lowest stakes possible

Yep, but until recently those were the lowes stake on partypoker. Haven't tried the $1 SNGs yet, but I think the rake was higher in % terms...
 
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ph_il

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Definitely look into proper BRM plan. Thats the first thing you should focus on because that is what'll hurt you the most. There are a lot of different BRM plans out there, but I advise you to figure out one on your own that you're comfortable with.
For example, with my BRM plan: I like to have at least 30-40 buy ins for any game I choose to play. So, lets say its $1 + .20 SNGs on stars, I'd need at least a $36 BR. So, if I hit a losing streak, the losses dont effect my BR as much. In fact, in the past 2 days, im down about $15+ dollars on $1 SNGs (bad run) but its ok because I had big enough BR to handle the losses.

Playing $3 SNGs with a $20 doesnt give you that leeway, because you will lose and every time you do, thats costing you about 15% of your BR, more if you include the rake. If you're trying to move up the money ladder, sometimes you have to take it slow and steady and build up gradually. Dont be ashamed to back down a couple of levels because of your current BR status. Whats worse? Playing penny stakes with a BR? or no BR at all? I've had huge swings where Im up playing $2 SNGs (BALLA!!!) to where I can only afford to play at max .50 MTTs. And there is nothing wrong with that. Its all about playing smart.

Try playing different games. To build up my BR to where it is now, I played a lot of freerolls on pokerstars and Full Tilt. I also took advantage of PokerStars' .10, .25, and .50 MTTs. They're such a small percentage of my BR, but have extremely good pay-outs. I made $20 on a .10 MTT FT, so thats a big boost with virtually no cost to you.

ETA: Just saw your post on PP's $3 games being the shortest buy in. I read it as you were playing on PokerStars...whoops. So, you can ignore this but I'll keep it posted.
 
flint

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Well, I went and FTed the 1k tourney and got 31 dollars for my effort. Now my new BR is $50. I will surely be playing a few more low buy-in MTTs and try to boost my BR.
 
Egon Towst

Egon Towst

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Looks like you have more or less hit on the solution I suggest.

When you are on a modest bankroll, play a micro ring game until you win two or three dollars, then use that money to buy into an MTT.

Always finance your MTTs from winnings, never dip into your BR proper, and keep playing this way until you hit an FT and give your BR a big boost.

The length of time needed for success depends on your level of skill in tournies. It may be a long grind. However, I have used this method myself on several different sites and I now have $1000+ on each of three sites and $500+ on each of three more. In every case, my initial deposit was $30.
 
Ronaldadio

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Well, I went and FTed the 1k tourney and got 31 dollars for my effort. Now my new BR is $50. I will surely be playing a few more low buy-in MTTs and try to boost my BR.

Well done.

Now if I were u, I would continue the freeroll thing at look at playing $1 MTT/ $2 SNG`s
 
flint

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Well done.

Now if I were u, I would continue the freeroll thing at look at playing $1 MTT/ $2 SNG`s

There are few of the games you stated available on party, so I'll probably playing $2 MTT / $3 SNGs / 5NL. I do get the idea though as earlier this year I went broke playing 25PLO and $6 MTTs with 50 dollars.

To be honest I expected to fair a bit better in the FT as I came in with the third biggest stack and ended up going out 7th after being card dead for most of the FT. The pther players just seemed to get all the cards and I saw atleast three pocket kings and the other players seemed to be getting the cards :(

However, I can't compain too much as this is only my third final table ever (I do have more 11th-20th finishes than I'd like to remember, I have even bubbled the CC freeroll FT a few times)
 
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bustme

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Ever since I went broke in February, I have been struggling to get my BR up. I think the high point has been 32 dollars and the low point was 7 dollars. Right now I'm sitting with just over twenty bucks.

It seems at 5nl I am winning player, although at the moment I don't know by how much (poker tracker shows 1.49BB/100, but that's after a loosing session and with only 3k hands). With $3 SNGs I think I am a winning player, but have been having a couple of loosing streaks lately and I am down a bit.

I also noticed that even Jesus had problems getting his BR up from this point. Any pointers? It just seems I am wasting my time as my BR just fluctuates around 20 dollars.

How can I make my game more profitable?

Move up to 10 NL.,. Its alot easier to win in 10NL than 5NL ore 2 NL
 
flint

flint

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Move up to 10 NL.,. Its alot easier to win in 10NL than 5NL ore 2 NL

Im a bit hesitant to move since I have gone broke before with 50 bucks at 10nl, although I didn't play that well back then.
 
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bustme

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In my opinion your bankroll should be a minimum of 4 buyins

2 buyins is a bit small bankroll..... My rule is that I should have at the minimum 4 buyins at any time...

This is because when I have normal downswings in cash game I loose 4 buyins.... It happen wery often,.,.I usually lose 4 buyins every 3 sessions ore so..
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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Move up to 10 NL

Oh no!!!

He has a $50 bankroll - 10NL what? If you look around u won`t find anyone that suggests putting up 20% of your bankroll in one game of any kind of poker.

You need to clarify this bustme, because all of the other posters have given good advice.

Also
Move up to 10 NL.,. Its alot easier to win in 10NL than 5NL ore 2 NL
So the higher the limits you play the easier poker gets:confused:
 
flint

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I looked around the 10nl and found the best earning opportunity ever, a donk with a stack of fifty dollars! I have been griding it out in his table for just over an hour and have already made over one buy-in. There is also another player that has loosened up, so I just wait for the nuts and make some money.

EDIT> Ended up (only) making 12 dollars before the fish exited after playing against him for just over 2 hours. I wish I had more time with this fish to get the rest of his money.
 
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flint

flint

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Stalked a good victim (350BB, seemed to be somewhat of a donk) at 10nl and tried to part him from his money. Didn't have any success, but did loose a few dollars when my 16 outer missed on the river against a short stack and a few more calling some raises with good hands, but missing flops.

Then went down to 5nl. I won very little with my good hands while I had queens against aces two times in 10 mins which made me loose about 6 dollars.

So, overall I lost the money I gained yesterday and now again wonder what to do. I think I'll be trying to play some MTTs...
 
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blabber

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I think a good way to build up your bankroll is by playing satellites. If your looking for a really big MTT i know stars has a $1 satellite into the sunday hundred grand. Oh and freerolls always helps, last week my friend won first place for $44
 
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1122phoenix

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For more profit - Donkeys, and lots of them. Seriously, though a good player is only good relative to his competition. Pokerstars DN said it best when he said if you're the 8th best player in the world but sitting at a table with numbers 1 through 7, you're sitting at the wrong table.

Check your stats and see which site and $ buy-in gave you the best profit - then play those.
 
BillyTheBull

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Stalked a good victim (350BB, seemed to be somewhat of a donk) at 10nl and tried to part him from his money. Didn't have any success, but did loose a few dollars when my 16 outer missed on the river against a short stack and a few more calling some raises with good hands, but missing flops.

I don't like your strategy of (apparently) trying to single out one player from whom (you think) you can extract money . . . when you do that you start forcing things when you shouldn't, and you often miss other opportunities to make money. IMHO, to play $10 NL you should have at least $200 in your bankroll, even more if you're multi-tabling (you don't mention this, so you probably don't); that said, you might try multi-tabling (at the lowest limits possible, given your BR), as it is a great way to minimize the swings. One table's winnings often make up for another's losses, and you're able to see significantly more hands/hr by playing even two tables at once -- not to mention 4 or 6 -- which might help curb your urge to get too "creative" when the cards aren't coming. With six tables I can usually see 250-300 hds/hr at $25 NL and on average manage to pull a ROI of about 10% per 2-3 hr session.

Then went down to 5nl. I won very little with my good hands while I had queens against aces two times in 10 mins which made me loose about 6 dollars. So, overall I lost the money I gained yesterday and now again wonder what to do.

Well, QQ vs AA is supposed to lose 80% of the time, so you can't complain about that (although, of course, it's frustrating) . . . it's just a matter of your BR bankroll being able to absorb those losses; again, to play $5 NL profitably, you should have at least $100 in your BR.
 
flint

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Ok, to add to today's post I won back $7.57 from today's loss after a few good hands, the main one of where villain wasn't willing to laydown AK against my set. I know I have a lot of work to do on my cash game, I have come far from the days that I just donked money.

I am also considering playing omaha after I get my bakroll in shape, since it is one of the most profitable cash games I have ever seen.
 
flint

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I don't like your strategy of (apparently) trying to single out one player from whom (you think) you can extract money . . . when you do that you start forcing things when you shouldn't, and you often miss other opportunities to make money.

Yep, you are probably right, I should just hit the loosest tables and figure what hands I can make seroius money with. I just kind of got excited about it after taking ten dollars from a very loose player yesterday.


if you're multi-tabling (you don't mention this, so you probably don't); that said, you might try multi-tabling (at the lowest limits possible, given your BR), as it is a great way to minimize the swings.

I do play 4 at a time. 5NL is the lowest at Partypoker.

With six tables I can usually see 250-300 hds/hr at $25 NL and on average manage to pull a ROI of about 10% per 2-3 hr session.

That amount of hands seems quite low as I usually see about 200+ in a 1 hour 4 table session. My ROI is sometimes bigger in sessions, but the swings are big, so with the last 3k hands I've been earning 3.5BB/100.
 
SeanyJ

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3.5BB/100 at 5NL is really really low, I don't think you should even be considering moving up if you're only making that much. It isn't very difficult to make 10+BB/100 at those micro stakes and I think you probably need a lot of work if you're only at 3.5.

Just keep grinding it out at 5NL, start posting hand histories in the hand analysis forum and keep reading strategy posts around here and you'll be making a lot more in no time.
 
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baby kahuna

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It seems as though you are too overly confident about your play. Too anxious to bust out of your small BR. At a small BR things take time. You dont head hunt for donkeys but wait for a good turn of cards and capitalize on them. The old adage "minimize your losses, maximize your winnings." You should be playing the smallest limits where you can maximize your winnings when you do get the cards. Micro MTT are great for doing this. Small buy ins, huge field, great payoff ratio at final table. Its a lot tougher work but you are the one with a small BR. Most of us must go through the process. You dont jump up from Grade school to the University. Only one out of hundreds of thousands do. You want to get a bigger BR faster load up more into your account.
 
KenFischer

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You want to get a bigger BR faster load up more into your account.

If someone is relying on the extremely poor play of others to make money at the lowest limits, their game probably isn't up to surviving the higher ones. Depositing more money to move up more quickly is probably asking for trouble.
 
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baby kahuna

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If someone is relying on the extremely poor play of others to make money at the lowest limits, their game probably isn't up to surviving the higher ones. Depositing more money to move up more quickly is probably asking for trouble.

Oh I agree. I was being a bit ironic. Sorry. Like getting a bigger BR? Load up!
 
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