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pat3392
Visionary
Silver Level
How come?
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
*shrugs*
It's just the convention. I suspect it's because cash games and SnGs rarely have antes but they're the norm in MTTs. Plus minimum and maximum buy ins for cash games are usually set as a multiple of the big blind and most of the important stack landmarks for SnGs (ie: 10BB = push-fold time) are easier to express and keep track of when they're expressed in big blinds.
It's just the convention. I suspect it's because cash games and SnGs rarely have antes but they're the norm in MTTs. Plus minimum and maximum buy ins for cash games are usually set as a multiple of the big blind and most of the important stack landmarks for SnGs (ie: 10BB = push-fold time) are easier to express and keep track of when they're expressed in big blinds.
roundcat
Creature of leisure
Silver Level
M isn't useful in cash games because there are no antes and you'll usually have a full stack. Your strategy doesn't change based on increasing blinds and decreasing M as it does in a tournament.
In a tournament M is more accurate in later stages when antes are in play, but BBs are a bit easier to keep track of and still give you a good rough estimate of where you stand. I usually keep track of BBs and don't feel it compromises my strategy not to regularly calculate M.
In a tournament M is more accurate in later stages when antes are in play, but BBs are a bit easier to keep track of and still give you a good rough estimate of where you stand. I usually keep track of BBs and don't feel it compromises my strategy not to regularly calculate M.
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bRiMaTiOn
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Definitly both. They're both good estimates and M's aren't really going to help with the nitty gritty of hand by hand analysis. If you have exactly 3 M's or 4 or 5 or wherever your "must shove" spot is, you would need to decide if it really is that EXACT hand that you need to shove. You might be able to wait one or two more. Blinds of course aren't going to help with how antes can hurt you're stack in only one or two rounds.
So both with some very intricate math and estimations.
So both with some very intricate math and estimations.
No Brainer
Losing keeps me sane
Silver Level
I will generally use big blinds even in tournaments. I just adjust my play at different stages when there are antes in play. Instead of playing the push/fold game at 10bbs I will increase it to say 13-15bbs depending on the size of the antes.
I'm not sure where you are getting the 2/3rds of antes in play from. To work out your 'M' (which is the total cost of one orbit of the table) you multiply the ante by the number of people at the table and then add both the small blind and the big blind.
At a 9 handed table with 100/200 blinds and a 25 ante
(9 x 25) + 100 + 200 = 525
I'm not sure where you are getting the 2/3rds of antes in play from. To work out your 'M' (which is the total cost of one orbit of the table) you multiply the ante by the number of people at the table and then add both the small blind and the big blind.
At a 9 handed table with 100/200 blinds and a 25 ante
(9 x 25) + 100 + 200 = 525
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pat3392
Visionary
Silver Level
Umm sorry for not being clear. When I said add 2/3rds of the antes I meant the total ante. I also meant add it to the big blind; this is NOT to calculate M. It is to find out the "true" big blind value. Does that make sense?
No Brainer
Losing keeps me sane
Silver Level
So in the example I gave you will add the ante of 25 to the big blind of 200 to get 225?
As the antes are usually quite small compared to the blind there isn't much of a reason to add the single ante to your blind. I usually just multiply the ante by the number of players and use that as a reference
As the antes are usually quite small compared to the blind there isn't much of a reason to add the single ante to your blind. I usually just multiply the ante by the number of players and use that as a reference
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ThunderPT
Rock Star
Silver Level
The M represents how many rounds your stack would survive at the current level if you didn't enter any pot, so it's only really useful in tournaments. It helps you determine when you should become more aggressive. If you're M is above 20, you can play tight-aggressive (if that's your usual style) and wait all you want, but as it gets lower your range for each position has to become looser.
In cash games the M doesn't apply. The blinds aren't rising and you can always add more chips. How many blinds you have is what matters.
And M isn't difficult to calculate. Instead of using the normal formula of dividing your stack by the initial pot, multiply the initial pot by 5, 10 or 20 instead to see more or less where you're at. This way is not only easier to calculate but also more useful when you look at the other player's stack. If the blinds are 25/50, you know you need at least 750 to have an M above 10 and 1500 to be above 20. With simple multiplications you can easily see the situation of everyone at the table.
In cash games the M doesn't apply. The blinds aren't rising and you can always add more chips. How many blinds you have is what matters.
And M isn't difficult to calculate. Instead of using the normal formula of dividing your stack by the initial pot, multiply the initial pot by 5, 10 or 20 instead to see more or less where you're at. This way is not only easier to calculate but also more useful when you look at the other player's stack. If the blinds are 25/50, you know you need at least 750 to have an M above 10 and 1500 to be above 20. With simple multiplications you can easily see the situation of everyone at the table.
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bRiMaTiOn
Enthusiast
Silver Level
See the blinds method measures your blinds. The M's method measures how many blinds and antes.
One does blinds. The other does blinds and antes.
You use one when measuring blinds. You use the other when measuring blinds and antes.
You use one when there are no antes. You use the other when there are antes.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You do the math at the table using these!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
Funny convo. LATA!!!!!!
One does blinds. The other does blinds and antes.
You use one when measuring blinds. You use the other when measuring blinds and antes.
You use one when there are no antes. You use the other when there are antes.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You do the math at the table using these!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
Funny convo. LATA!!!!!!
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Not necessarily - if you're playing in a cash game with antes, for example, pretty sure people will still be talking in terms of big blinds.
The important thing is this: as long as one of them works for you it doesn't matter which one you use. Just be aware that most people use M for MTTs and big blinds for cash games / STTs so you might have to convert when you're discussing them with other people.
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bRiMaTiOn
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Well there it goes. I forget something simple and he comes in and points it out and then sums it all up, winning the thread.
...HEY WAIT! IN A CASH GAME WITH ANTES THEY WOULD OF COURSE BE TALKING ABOUT M'S TO DESCRIBE THE COST PER ROUND!!
...HEY WAIT! IN A CASH GAME WITH ANTES THEY WOULD OF COURSE BE TALKING ABOUT M'S TO DESCRIBE THE COST PER ROUND!!
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malevol
Enthusiast
Silver Level
The concept of M was introduces by Harrington if im not mistaken. There is a good video on that on FT poker academy. Some people like to count in BB others just calculate the M. What does matter is how you adjust you style of play to the apropriate M size. For example if you M is bigger play looser and more aggresive but there have been several discussions on this topic as well. It also depends on the people you are playing with. I personally calculate the number of BB and just play ABC from start till end.