classic poker is dead?

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BART777

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tournament poker over the internet is converted from the game skills in the game of luck. your opinion
 
PapaC

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Well BART777 in my opinion no player would make it very far with luck alone if it be playing live or on the internet. I think it's 60% skill and 40% luck. If it was just luck, everyone at the table should just go all in every hand and hope luck is with them. But that's not the way it is. Do you watch the pros play. I do and they use their skill to take pots with nothing, and they also use their skill to win all the chips they can with their big hands. GL to you
 
MrPokerVerse

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Both live and online is a game of skill. You have some added skill set required for live. Would you agree playing against someone lucky is more profitable than playing someone of skill?
 
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Two6JJ

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If you are referring to the hyper turbo that seems to be popular then yes but there are still traditional deep stack tournaments that can play a bit more 'normal'.
 
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BART777

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poker rooms popularitybut SPIN & GO, TEXAS 6+ and others, as the tournament structure is changing: the ante the first hand, re-entry, super knockouts and more--- it increases dispersion, and hence the luck factor. the internet has made a lot for popularization of poker, but now turns it into bingo. so I said, classic poker is dying?
 
skavenger

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Poker's Only A Game ... Has not Like Dying. Play How You Want, and ENJOY the error of Others
 
cally

cally

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MTT's are a serious grind. It is not taking away skill wise, maybe enjoyment wise at best. Especially in a deep tourney playing for 10+ hours, its not attractive but if you wanna cash well you need to grind.
 
adamovic

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i think the classic poker is not dead ar all.sure lot of players play poker for money but many are playing for fun so for sure the play is become more faster with more variants but its still a very nice and cool play
 
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matiascecci1990

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if you contemplate free tournements, thats si true, many people go all in whit nothing
 
Nathan Williams

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Depends on the structure but in general this is not the case. The best online players have been winning for years because they are exercising their skill advantage.
 
leandrette

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good things not die ...... just wait in the shadows ..... :x
 
Gorak

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The best online players have been winning for years because they are exercising their skill advantage.
I agree; but the gap is closing and their edge is getting smaller.

Training sites and/or Twitch can bring a fast losing player to a break even player.

When good regs are sitting against other good regs then luck will probably determine where the chips end up.
 
Poker Orifice

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poker rooms popularitybut SPIN & GO, TEXAS 6+ and others, as the tournament structure is changing: the ante the first hand, re-entry, super knockouts and more--- it increases dispersion, and hence the luck factor. the internet has made a lot for popularization of poker, but now turns it into bingo. so I said, classic poker is dying?

Yup... I agree 100%.


I believe it is the pokersites attempting to draw in (& keep) more recreational 'new' players to the tables. If it were more like 2008 (or pre 2010), the gap between the good players & the newer &/or recreational ones would be significant.
With the changes, the 'regs' need to follow the fish, adapt to the games & exercise the skill advantage they have in them (which is less than before as the margins are far smaller).


I still miss the 45man Sng's on Fulltilt (or the 90man's) & 'regular' speed STT SNG's.
 
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Well BART777 in my opinion no player would make it very far with luck alone if it be playing live or on the internet. I think it's 60% skill and 40% luck. If it was just luck, everyone at the table should just go all in every hand and hope luck is with them. But that's not the way it is. Do you watch the pros play. I do and they use their skill to take pots with nothing, and they also use their skill to win all the chips they can with their big hands. GL to you
Well PapaC, Not sure how much of online poker you have played, but try not to discount BART777 assertion so quickly.

I myself have been constantly playing poker online since 2005 and there absolutely has been a shift in how many ludicrous bad beats being presented online now days.

I have seen millions of hands being played out on line, and my observation is that something has defiantly changed on the amount of suck-outs/ so called Luck factors.

I am in no way, suggesting that the luck factor has somehow managed to defeat the laws of Mathematics and changed the percentage of randomness.

My assertion, no matter how misguided it may or may not be, is the “Human factor”.

What so many online poker observers simply omit from their rational when it comes to online poker, is the extremely strong possibility for the modification/change in the software’s program.

Or, maybe less likely, but absolutely not out of the realm of possibility, the modification/change of the sites random generator.

There is absolutely no debate as far as I am concerned, on any change in the math vs luck factor.

But BOY!

Do I have strong issues with the probable directions from site owners instructing their programmers on the modifications of their poker Apps.

Personal Bias: I have some programming education, so I may be more critical than many.
 
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Olvia

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Yes, what luck in tournament poker? Constantly I see at the final table in major tournaments the same.
 
sryulaw

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Well BART777 in my opinion no player would make it very far with luck alone if it be playing live or on the internet. I think it's 60% skill and 40% luck. If it was just luck, everyone at the table should just go all in every hand and hope luck is with them. But that's not the way it is. Do you watch the pros play. I do and they use their skill to take pots with nothing, and they also use their skill to win all the chips they can with their big hands. GL to you
I make your words mine (your speech mine) ..
Luck is something for the moment, just a mare of cards and flops that you will have at a table or tournament, Skill will lead you to success, or top, and sure to have many profits in the long run .. It has great players, professionals that gets 1000 a thousand tournaments (without winning anything) with buy-in loss, and in tournament 1001 he makes millions because the skill took him there.
 
Poker Orifice

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Well PapaC, Not sure how much of online poker you have played, but try not to discount BART777 assertion so quickly.

I myself have been constantly playing poker online since 2005 and there absolutely has been a shift in how many ludicrous bad beats being presented online now days.

I have seen millions of hands being played out on line, and my observation is that something has defiantly changed on the amount of suck-outs/ so called Luck factors.

I am in no way, suggesting that the luck factor has somehow managed to defeat the laws of Mathematics and changed the percentage of randomness.

My assertion, no matter how misguided it may or may not be, is the “Human factor”.

What so many online poker observers simply omit from their rational when it comes to online poker, is the extremely strong possibility for the modification/change in the software’s program.

Or, maybe less likely, but absolutely not out of the realm of possibility, the modification/change of the sites random generator.

There is absolutely no debate as far as I am concerned, on any change in the math vs luck factor.

But BOY!

Do I have strong issues with the probable directions from site owners instructing their programmers on the modifications of their poker apps.

Personal Bias: I have some programming education, so I may be more critical than many.


This post ^ doesn't belong on this this thread (imo) as it is not pertaining to what the OP is even referring to. Please read over OP's second post in this thread as he responds to others who are misinterpreting the meaning of his original post. (in brief, OP is talking about how 'classic poker' is losing out to games that have more gamble to them... ie. hyper turbos, etc.

It seems you've attempted to hijack this to expressed some rigged beliefs. What are your thoughts instead on what OP is actually talking about?
 
Eric Salvador

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I think that you views on luck is just not understanding the math side of the game. Just think of it in this sense. If you're holding 10c9c and the flop comes Jd 7h 2c and your opponent bets a half size pot bet into he's giving you 3 to 1 on your money and 25% pot odds when you call. Even if his range is QQ+ and AKs and AKo you still have 30% equity in the hand allowing you to make a EV+ call. If you took out AK and left him with QQ+ your equity in the hand is 23% giving you a slight negative EV call. Some people will make the call with -2% equity seeing the implied odds. If they hit the gut shot on the turn QQ+ will likely give them a good amount of value and if another club comes on the turn they'll be getting 26% equity. If they completely miss they can either use it as a bluff or easily lay it down.
 
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For me it depends on buy in amount and with bounty builders people gamble more
 
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NBB

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tournament poker over the internet is converted from the game skills in the game of luck. your opinion
The game hasn't changed to any great extent, what has changed is that a very large number of uneducated [dumb] individuals who had watch poker on tv and think they are now professional poker players have degraded online play which has agree-ably made it look like we are now playing in some sort of a bingo game or craps to probably be more precise.
 
SPANKYSN

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Luck and skill are part of poker. At the lower stakes, there are more players who are casual players, and they draw as many lucky hands as experienced players. It depends WHEN your luck comes. As you increase stakes, luck takes a smaller % and skill plays a larger role.
 
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PKRNRS

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What is the classic game of poker? People use to play Stud only, then limit hold'em. Now No-limit. Everything changes with time and technology. The game is what you make of it.
 
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Pickat

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That might be somewhat true in large field tournaments and freerolls . Look around and you can find nice tournaments where the majority of players actually play the game and not just try to get lucky . Keep looking around you'll find plenty of good ones .
 
Iryna Stryzheuskaya

Iryna Stryzheuskaya

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Poker is alive. There is always an element of luck in it, but this does not mean that you do not need to improve your skills.
 
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