Blew out my $50 account

[light65536]

I was up to my highest equity curve today around $40 and decided to try a game at .02/.05 to test myself. I didn't play my best but one player kept hitting everything -- trips, 2 pair, every single hand. Now I'm down to $26.. sucks I was really could see getting back to $50. I probably should not have even been there with my bankroll where it is now and I seen the play was very tough when I joined.

Well, I find the largest pot size is most opportunity. Tight players don't drop much. Of course, you can pick up a lot of small pots from those players but the big pots from the loose aggressive players. This is my experience.

 

[Adventurebound2]

Learn more about post flop play.

Probably the best advice given so far on this thread.

Please take this post as constructive critisism!

Don't be looking at smaller stacks and asume they are easy money. One of my tactics is to keep an eye out for certain players who love to bring a lot of cash to the table and act super agressive way too often (basically how you explained your own play in this thread, imo) I come in with 1/2 buy in and play patiently, they always double me up at least once and often more than that. Once I take them with a good solid hand they want revenge and play worse yet, so I continue to play patiently, ready to stack them again when the time is right. By this time the whole table is on to them and every one is waiting patiently for a great hand knowing the agressor is probably going to pay off big. Any idiot can push and push, doesn't mean they are automatically going to win because they think they will always scare off players by big bets. All it does is paint a bullseye on them.

Seriously, learn to play post flop better! If you don't have it don't go throwing good money after bad hoping to hit something on the river. Learn how to fold, how to trap, and how to make the most out of the nuts when you have them. Another major thing is to learn and practice good BR managment!

Here's an article from the CC strategy articles I recomend for you to read.5 Stack Crippling Thoughts that Sabotage Your No Limit Poker Game - Poker Mistakes There's a lot more good articles there that will help you as well, just click the strategy articles link.

Good luck to ya,

 

[light65536]

Okay, I'm back to $29 and almost $30. So I'm feeling a bit better. I busted about 4-6 people to do that -- mostly small stacks. It is my experience that small stacks make larger bluffs because they don't are not afraid of losing a big stack. That was my problem when I played small stack.

So, if I can keep running good and I had some amazing cards then I think I can get back into the $30's where I feel more comfortable.

I will now discuss my strategies. When I start playing i have a notepad and I write down my running balance into that notepad but I record the chips as units and not dollars so $5 is 500 units. I have 2 "stops" set but these are soft stops. A winning stop is just to give me an indication how much I'm ahead. I try to push my winnings but cut my losses. Each time balance changes I write down the numbers in the notepad.


I also write down some uhm reminders because its easy for the mind to go asleep while playing. Some of my reminders are "bulldoze, watch for straights, be patient, goal is to build my bankroll, don't take it personal, play position, dont play suited crap, small hand -> small pot, big hand -> big pot".

The bulldoze is one of the most important. I thought I was aggressive and then in heads up I started getting run over my bluffers on my big hands. So my strategy is thinking ITS NOT ENOUGH just to be aggressive but I plan to just completely bulldoze my opponents. My biggest post-flop weakness is missing off the wall straights even though I make quite a bit from these too.

I love playing the big stack but I treat my chips as very valuable the more I have. I don't want to give even a single one way. So, I'm not the type of player who just throws chips away.

However, let me give a good example. I have a k-10 in the big blind. I see the button call. I just busted him with a good hand but I feel he thinks I am weak because I folded several times previously when I was pretty sure he was bluffing.

The flop comes with a 10 on it. I bet out and he calls. The next card to come is an ace and he bets out huge. This is reasonable typically to think someone limped in with an ace and typically I'd fold but I was pretty sure he didn't have it. it was more of an "I'm going to scare you bet".

Nothing else of interest comes and he goes all in on the river. I call and my 10's hold up. At the microlimits you can't always play for value because if you do the other players will see this and just bet huge and take away your chips.

My strategy is primarily to win several small pots and then to use those winnings to take a coin flip. At least in heads up if I'm a chip leader I'm happy to take a coin flip bet because I have a 50% chance of winning right there the game.

In ring games, my strategy is based around positional and situational play. In early position I play super tight but in later positions I play very loose and aggressive. The key is I don't put much money relatively into my bluffs. I rarely bluff big without having something strong. Additionally I almost never bluff out of position. The other side to the coin is I require much stronger calling hands then I do raising hands.

I found playing loose aggressive works for me because: I don't feel the need to make hands, people will call my premium hands that I want them to call, and good things can happen. If I play super tight then people recognize this and just fold but if I'm raising every hand then I get a lot more value from my good hands and I find it easier to fold them.

I try to change up gears quite a bit too. Again if someone has already raised the pot then I'm going to be entering with very strong hands only.

The biggest problem with my strategy on the button is if we have limpers who came in before the button. Sometimes I will limp with them because there is a risk someone limped with a very strong hand. I really don't like limpers in front of me.

The primary benefit from raising from the button is not the blinds (at least in .01/.02) but the value I gain from my premium hands. The DOWNSIDE is that people will be more likely to call premium hands and that means they'll lose more often too.

 

[light65536]

The good run continue and I busted about 6 more people. Now I'm back to $34. This came as a result of playing within my bankroll and not taking too many chances. I had a great run of hands too and even hit quads.

 

[light65536]

Now I'm up to $38. I was hovering around $34-$35 for a few hours of game play and not seeing much change in my bankroll and then I hit the straight flush and I had 3-4 people interested in that hand. That was a great hand to hit and I've only hit that maybe one or two other times. Getting payed off with it with maximum money was the best.

My thinking is that good things come to those who play a lot of hands. But you have to be tight too. This is kinda-of the difficulty in playing is I want to play as tight as possible but as many hands as possible too so these good things can happen.

 

[light65536]

I'm up to $41 now. It might be a lesson in how I did this. I joined a very aggressive table but where the players were also playing solid. So, a tough table -- not many cheap views. I folded for a long time because I was not hitting anything and played conservatively. I was starting to question if I should be playing at such table.

Finally I had A-suited and the flop came giving me 4 to my suit. The initial raiser raised a large amount. I called. I hit my suit. He raised again. I called. On the river he went all in: obviously I called and won that pot. He was playing pocket queens.

This is why I love flush because I'm pretty sure the math didn't warrant my calling. I had let's say 9 outs or 18% chance to hit. I'm not sure if a queen was on the board. But I knew if I hit then I could get a huge payoff which I did.

This is why also I question the wisdom about making it "too costly" to draw too cards because that also makes it very costly too fold too. If there are 2 or 3 to a flush on the board then I will raise a good amount but if I encounter a lot of re-raise or resistance I'm probably out.

Did he play it bad? Well obviously he was banking on I'd not call an all-in bet without the nut flush which I had.

 

[light65536]

I played pretty bad earlier today. I chased which is usually good but villain didn't pay me off. I also chased with a short stack and he didn't have enough to make it worth the price he was asking (and I didn't hit anyway). I still find short stack the easiest to bust. So, went back down to about $35. I decided to quit recognizing I was playing bad. I was card dead too. I usually lose money when I first sit down at a table and I try not to get into too many battles before I get into the groove but seems with some tables it just happens. Anyway, I had few more games and was able to put in some good bluffs and hit some stuff so I'm back to $42. I had A-10 like a dozen times in one game.

I usually keep all my bets exactly the same that way nobody knows what I'm playing. I also will in many cases come right out and bet at a big flop because checking can be suspicious but sometimes players fold. I tend not to slow play my big hands. I had quads today and came right out and bet it but everyone folded.

Getting back to why always raising works is I hit a good flop and with J-10 and I was pretty sure I was in the lead. I had been really picking on the blinds and he decided to fight back by going all in. So I called his all-in and had the best hand and the best drawing hand but he hit a straight and got lucky. This is the flip side to playing loose aggressive I was refering too: your premium hands get more value but more likely to be called down too. This player would never have made that mistake had I not been bullying him, imo.

 

[syntheticocean]

I typically play the same way light, I bet the same all the time. It's harder for people to get reads on you. I like to stick to 'if you aren't going to raise, don't play it' too. The only exception I ever have to that rule is if I'm BB and I have garbage. Works well for me. Keep plugging away with your 50$. You'll go up and down, but what is important is that you don't go broke. You can easily win money with money. Without money it's quite a bit harder.

 

[N.D.]

Dude!? Why'd ya come right out and bet quads? Did u flop them and fear someone catching bigger quads or a str8 flush? BTW the odds of either event are slim even with baby quads...

You must have bet pretty big for them to all fold...

Good rule of thumb is to try and let your opposition think they're catching up when you have a huge hand. I'd suggest a small bet if not just checking. Then if you see a str8 on the board or a randomish flush, check-raise(it can make them think you're the one bluffing).

Ah but you're in SnG's yeah? Then u have to bet pretty much the same or even not bet at all(depends on stakes though)... I get that part...

But if it was a ring game your tactic wouldn't work so well. In fact it wouldn't work at all. Deep stacks + very different strategies + it's not the same when what you win you keep(as opposed to the symbolism of tournament stacks).

You might want to try a shootout at FTP or a bounty at UB. Very different dynamics but if you're really good...

With a bounty you can make money without finishing in the money. I doubled up a couple of times without finishing in the money. With a shootout, you just have to be good at coming in first in STT's. They're pretty cool because if you make it to the final table, nobody has the chips to dominate with. Everyone has the same chance(not counting experience and skills). The hard part's making it to the final table. Still, it's worth a shot if you can get in one for a buck or two.

 

[light65536]

No I bet the same amount I always bet. Again, I play very loose and aggressive so I'm c-betting all the time. That why I play this way is so that nobody knows what I am playing. I agree it might be better to slow play. There was no chance of anyone beating me, realistically. This is cash game. It is my standard "bluff" bet size which maybe is a bit much.

 

[hennyville2000]

I would definatly go with the sng's at first and just be patient. You will be very surpirsed how many of them you can win and usually with not very much time of effort invested at all.

 

[light65536]

I had my account up to $46 today. I was playing really good and then everything started falling apart. I'm down to $36. I had the nuts on this guy like 6x in a row but he never payed off. Finally, I thought I'd get payed off because we had a large raise and I had flopped a full house with kings. So I went all in and the other guy had hit a better full house. I guess its time to take a break. I should have quit when I started losing. Time for a break.

To explain how this happened, a guy who I put was playing pretty tight raised. I put him on AK, KQ, JJ, KJ, or something of the like. King and smalls hit the board. I had k-5 and had hit full house. I went all in on full house. He raised large with like k-6 and had hit a better full house. That sucked.

 

[N.D.]

How much are you taking to the table again? I forgot. %???

Also how did he raise your all-in? I don't get it. If you were all-in how was he raising? There was a 3rd party in the hand???

Sorry lots of time cuz in razz freeroll(want to play at full tilt and freeroll's all I have for now). I just need clarification...

I'm not saying avoid the cash tables, just a bit of 411 on how much you're taking could help a lot...

 

[light65536]

I'm on tilt or just playing terrible again. I'm down to $25. This sucks. I'm taking a few weeks off from poker. I had my trips cracked from a straight and lost bunch more money. Poker sucks when you lose.

 

[light65536]

I'm really down when my bankroll goes down considering today hit the highest high and the lowest low! I know I have a lot to learn but I have did pretty good breaking even in heads up and have at least a several K of hands I've won over a period of time. For all those who want to go pro: play 20k hands first and see if you can win. If you can't win or don't like then why bother. I feel most of you people will end up broke or whatever. It's like someone saying I want to be XYZ without doing XYZ.

I will discuss my strategy WHICH works great when it does. My strategy is built around the idea of pressure. I play with big stacks and my whole game plan is about applying maximum pressure on my opponents so they make a mistake. That means I'm raising all the time and when the flop hits: I'm placing in small raises. I play 6 player ring game so I can focus on the players -- and mostly turbo.

I will raise from the button about the same amount every time. I don't raise a lot because I will fold if I get resistance unless I have a monster hand -- in which case I will usually bust my opponent.

So, I'm raising all the time. From early position I'm only playing very premium hands unless the play is especially soft.

Anyway thats my strategy is to apply pressure to make my opponents make a mistake and it WORKS. It works most of the time. I'm also going to be chasing flushes and draws. Why? Because I can bust someone.

I'll call a raise and KNOW I'm beat. It's the easiest way to fold but if I hit my flush then I'll bust someone who is very interested in a premium hand.

Who beats me? Players who dont pay off -- for one thing. If a payer never pays off my big bets without the nuts then that really put me on tilt today. I went all in like a dozen times on this player and he never called me. It felt like he was cheating. He kept saying nice hand like he knew I was playing good hands and not like the maniac I appeared(??) Why do I keep going all in? To keep applying pressure. It's not just about the money but its about the image. Eventually I changed up my bets and got payed.

Also very short stacks have never beat me really. I usually bust them. But, a short stack can also make it harder for me to draw too.

A lot of people piss-echo tight aggressive. I have played tight aggressive and everyone folds to me or someone calls and hits a straight or something huge.

I don't play tight aggressive. I play tight aggressive from early position and I play looser from later positions. Playing loose has given me great opportunities to bust people.

Now I am running bad and losing. I lost a lot today. What happened? I'm a maniac. I love to bully people with my big stack but it has to be controled. I hit a new equity high today and lost good judgement and I payed the price. I still think my new style is the right style for me.

 

[N.D.]

If you feel it's right, then it probably is the right style for you. Still, consider it as your main style and not your only style.

Take Gus Hansen for instance. The majority of viewers think he's some sort of maniacal better/calling machine. He has a hyper-aggressive image which he uses to his advantage. But if you watch him play, he's not constantly hyper-aggressive unless it's the right strategy. He's also not crazy-loose all the time. Sometimes he plays tight...

Also consider that Gus and others who play with big stacks, have several hundred times their buy-in at any given time. Maybe even more. You don't have that. You need that if you're going to play the way you do. Why? Well let's keep examining Gus Hansen. Only this time let's look at his online game. He took a million dollar downswing in his stride. Why? Because he can afford to + he gets paid to play, win or lose FTP pays him. I'd take losses in my stride if they weren't real losses, but for me, they are real losses...

Now, if you look at Chris Ferguson's style which is generally tight aggressive, that worked great for his challenges. His challenges aren't too different from starting with $50. So ask yourself, is it better to play wilder in a style that suits your nature, knowing you haven't enough to cover the swings? Or is it better to play tighter, even though it goes against your nature, just until you have enough to cover the swings.

I'll hazard a guess and say that the wilder the player the more money they need in their BR. I'm saying it because the wilder player takes more risks and gambles more. They also pressure the rest of the table, but that only works so much before the table fights back...

I guess Kenny Rogers is right. You do gotta know when to walk away and know when to run. If it feels like the rest of the table's gonna turn on you, get the hell outta Dodge and fast! Don't believe me, but I've seen the hyper-aggressors get the crap kicked out of them by 5 - 8 tight/passive players before. They tighten up, they play possum, and then give u a butt-kicking.

Still, and this is key. There's no one way to play! Play the table. At one table hyper-aggressive is genius, at another passive works better, at a third it's best to just keep mixing and matching according to the opponent(s) you're in a hand with.

I'm sure you've read it before but try to play your opponent(s). Not just your cards, and not just your personal style, but your opponent(s).

Also, I gotta ask, why would you call if you know you're beat? If you haven't convinced yourself the opponent's bluffing, why call? You say it's because you could bust them, you could hit your straight. Do you even take your odds of hitting your straight or flush into consideration? Do you even stop to visualize them?

I just watched a break time interview with Daniel and he was talking about hands he was in and how he thought about his outs and what to do. He even admitted to some mistakes but he always thought about his outs. His blunders were bet-related and not odds related. Also his blunders worked out for the best. But still, they probably did in part because he had plenty of outs.

 

[light65536]

I briefly consider my outs, yes. I know how to multiply outs * the remaining to get a rough estimate. It's generally around 18%-20% for a flush -- if I'm chasing or 4% for trips, or probably 16% for an open ended straight draw. But I don't use that as much as if I think the player will pay me off because the odds generally don't warrant chasing -- the pot odds. So sometimes I just build a bigger pot.

Lately, I've been running into a lot tighter players -- rocks. They never call my big bets and we always end up chopping. I don't like that. I'm down to $21.

 

[light65536]

I think I'm going to quit playing. I started new game with $5 and built up to $12 and was playing really good. I had AK suited in a 6 player game. I had been getting a lot of respect at the table and I made a large raise and a player went over top of me -- all in. I figured it meant aces but I called and he had me 50% covered. I lost $5 in that hand.

I'm tired poker. I win most of the time but I just can't stand to lose. This is not my game. For those who think about going pro just forget it. In no limit I played perfect for 5 hours but I made one mistake and lost half my chip stack. Yes I should have left when i was up 4x but with that mentality you can't win either.

To win at poker you have to play perfectly for long hours.

 

[juddof poker]

best advice i got was be a student of the game, and if u on here your half way there, never played those stakes but do what u gotta do 2 beat it pick your players, but def just play tight and add things 2 your game worked 4 me not like play aggressive and learn

 

[N.D.]

I don't know who told you to just sit there with 4x your buy-in and play the same game you always do, while sitting there, relatively defenseless, wearing a big red target on your head, with 4x your buy-in which at that point was almost 1/4 of your BR! Whoever the hell told you to do that, kick their ass! Beat the living daylights out of them! They deserve it!

Yes I see people with 5x the maximum buy-in on the table from time to time. They're very good, very stupid, have plenty of loot, or some combination of those three things...

At any rate, there's no excuse not to bank 4x your buy-in at micro to low stakes. Just no excuse. There's too much action. Too many tables to choose from. I could see it if you were high stakes. There just isn't as much action. But micro-stakes? No-no-no...

Basically, you sit at a table, change the dynamic of said table, and just wanna sit there? You changed the dynamic. Once that's changed, your game has to change.

At any rate, I can't fathom why you want to blame the other players. It's smart to play like a rock when up against a LAG maniac. They basically spot your leak, then wait for you to bleed chips. That's hella smart. Give them props. Sure some could be worse players than you, it stands to reason. But trust me, some are also really smart and letting your own nature work against you.

But there's more. You want people to respect your game, but don't respect theirs? Respect your bets and raises, but you can't respect theirs? Oh and you don't want other people to chase, but you'll happily chase? Even when after you figure your outs + pot odds, you really should just fold?

I'm sorry but you make it very difficult to feel sympathy. You really do. It's because you're kind of a bad sport. You want everything to go your way, you want the game to be played your way, etc. You're like the kid we all had for a neighbor. The one who would let you play basketball with him but you had to follow his rules, no matter how stupid they were, just because it was his ball. Eventually nobody wanted to play with that kid.

You won't be gone for long. You'll be back. You'll miss the races and chasing that river. You'll miss it so bad. You'll be back. See ya around when ya get back.

 

[syntheticocean]

Spot on N.D.

Anything above your buy in is profit.

At 4x buyin, leave the table, go back to another table, buy in with your original buy in, and your suddenly not only up 300% of that buy in, but your no longer playing the game with your money. it's someone elses and it doesn't hurt so bad if you lose it. However, if you sit at that table with the 4x buy in, your still playing with your money. Get it out of there.

 

[N.D.]

Hang on just a gosh darned minute! If you took $5 out of $20 to the table that's 25% of your BR right there. Which means you had over 100% of your total BR on the table!???

Who the? What the?? How the???

I could see it if all you had was 5 bucks, or if you didn't have a problem with losing and depositing another $50. But you??? How the hell did you?

That's like going to the bank, withdrawing 1/4 of your paycheck, then heading to the roughest part of town, with it all out in the open, and being all surprised when someone stabs you for the money.

I'll be nice and leave it at that.

No I won't! What were you thinking?

Is this guy even coming back?

 

[widowmaker89]

I dont understand this logic at all. First of all its your money either way, profit or not shouldnt matter it is now yours. having 5 times the buy in doesnt matter unless someone else does as well to begin with. If you go up against someone else with a lot on the table its just very deep stacked. I agree leave tables if it is not an amount of money you want to be able to lose(a fine reason and likely) but I see nothing wrong at all having more money than everyone else, just be aware you are very deep stacked. If the table has gotton strong or you are tired by all means, there are plenty of reasons to leave a table but just because you are 4x buy in doesnt really make sense.

Of course the bankroll situation is another story. having 1/4 in 1 game is rediculous and going broke it really a when at that point so yes get out of there, but a properly rolled player shouldnt always leave just because they are up. If you are uncomfortable putting up that much, again understandable, then leave but there is no poker reason not to have more money at the table.

 

[N.D.]

But I'm not flummoxed by a properly rolled player's actions. I'm baffled by the OP's actions. They're all backwards, and upside down.

Crap! I did the math wrong(his BR's spiraling down the toilet)...

He sat with $5 when he only had $12! That's almost 1/2 his money!

I normally can't stand ratholers. The worst are the ones who take the money off the table and up to a higher stakes game. They get me kinda riled...

But when you're practically broke? Ya gotta rathole. Put your money away and start over. And don't take even 25% to the table once you have even $12. Learn to play short stacked and build up.

 

[N.D.]

No I bet the same amount I always bet. Again, I play very loose and aggressive so I'm c-betting all the time. That why I play this way is so that nobody knows what I am playing. I agree it might be better to slow play. There was no chance of anyone beating me, realistically. This is cash game. It is my standard "bluff" bet size which maybe is a bit much.

Okay so I'm going to point out that I finally realize the guy was probably tilted beyond belief. But I thought people knew when they were tilting. He only implied that he might be. I mean tilt's such an absolutely horrible feeling. How can you be mistaken?

But let's look at the phrase "standard bluff bet size". Ummm, how long do you suppose it takes an observant player to pick up on a "standard bluff bet"?